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Christianity conversion FOR ALL

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posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


"It is your opinion, not established fact. (I am in no way trying to come off condescending by that.) I have been lead down a different path to the Divine. I was raised Christian, and attended 9 years of Christian School. It left me empty and unfulfilled. It just never fit. If it fills your heart and soul, then it is a good fit for you, but it never was for me. After many years of soul searching and studying, I did find my connection to the Divine (I refrain from using the term 'God' due to the preconceptions it carries) and have never felt closer to the Source of all, and it only grows by the day now. I never felt that way when I was a practicing Christian. Just empty, hallow and living a lie. There are many roads leading to the Divine, only the traveler can choose his or her own path to get there. I am also of the belief that all roads lead to the Divine, even the path of the atheist. Some are just rockier than others.

We will just have to agree to disagree."

Well, no matter what I say, I will not sway you. There is only one way to God. You have one heart. Let God help you take care of it. No offense but I think you can't use, I was brought up in a Christian home and went to a Christian school, as an excuse. This is your heart we are talking about. The Bible is intended to be read spiritually. Give it another go man. Pray to God and really read it this time. Understand that God loves you and wants you.

We will have to just agree to disagree. But please take into consideration of what I said. Talk with God yourself and be genuine about it. Try it to know that I am not lying. Nice talking with you.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by Water-tastes-good]




posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by downtown436
 




I believe in God, the Almighty Creator of the Universe which I perceive. I believe Jesus was sent here by God, to teach us about love. I believe that if you in fact love your neighbors, and do your best, you will be right with God, and move to the next level when you die.
God is unfathomable in this dimension, and we will have to move up the food chain a long way before we can understand him.

When we die, our soul does get judged. By two entities. 1 is an Angel that is a higher being, the other is yourself. Your life is played out in front of you, and you get to feel what each and every other person felt when they interacted with you, good and bad. This is where you learn the mistakes of your ways.


Yes, I like your take on it all. I am hoping for some R and R for a while.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Totakeke
 


First, I want to apologize to all that I lost my temper. But I do hope you all can understand (for anyone quick enough to catch what I wrote).

Second, totakeke, I'm sure you knew that wasn't directed squarely at you. It was to everyone as a whole that had one thing or another that did apply to them.

Lastly, Jesus to me (if there was man named Jesus who did what he did) is a man just like any of us and his "gift" was to teach us and try to help us all realize that we can live just like he did and do everything he did. He even said we could if we believed.

On a final note: You guys can chose to be close to God however you want, but I take issue the second anyone tells me that when I'm not doing it their way that it's not the right way and I am, therefore, not close to God.

Could you imagine anyone saying those things to you and you not getting the least bit offended?



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by one_man24
I think it's funny that people don't believe what was written down in a book a couple thousand years ago, but you'll eat up whatever oprah, zeitgeist, evolutionary biologists, new age sprituals, Obama, or Richard Dawkins have to say. Well, maybe not Obama so much anymore.


Autowrench:
Yes, it is funny....no one believes what the Sumerian texts say either, do they? Or, how about all of the other books that have been written way before Christianity came along?


Seems to me that people just don't want to believe in God. That's fine with me, so long as you realize that everyone is believing what they are told, regardless of who is doing the telling.


Autowrench:
I believe in a Creator(s). The Gods of the Bible were clearly aliens.
You mean the god of the Bible, the cruel, heartless one that ordered his "chosen" to slaughter all that stood before them, so they could take land that was not theirs? And, what about the Goddess, the Queen of Heaven? Let me do something here I rarely do, quote from the KJB:
"Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other Elohim, that they may provoke me to anger."

NIV Study Bible: Queen of Heaven. A Babylonian title for Ishtar, an important goddess in the Babylonian pantheon.

Is there any symbol in the world today that represents the Goddess Ishtar?

Fact: One of the worlds largest Goddess statues that has ever been constructed is the Statue of Liberty in the harbor of New York City. According to the following research, the Statue of Liberty is an idol which represents something specific:

(From the book, “Is The Statue of Liberty Pagan?” by William Dankenbring)

The sculptor of the Statue of Liberty was Auguste Bertholdi. He belonged to the Masonic Lodge in Paris. Before beginning the statue of liberty project, Bertholdi was seeking a commission to construct a giant statue of the goddess "Isis," the Egyptian Queen of Heaven, to overlook the Suez canal. The statue of Isis was to be of "a robed woman holding aloft a torch" A statue of the Goddess stands in New York Harbor, but not one Christian will admit that there even is a Goddess. Why is that? Before you go rushing to your holy book, take note...does any man know one thing about how a woman thinks? NO!
Want to tell me again that a male God created women?



Edit to add: Btw, most christians don't realize that they can't convert anyone, or convice them of the truth. God can work in the unbeliever, if they open themselves up and receive His invitation. God reveals Himself to us daily through His word, but you can miss the invite if your ears are closed. "He who has ears, let him hear!"


That's right, most Christians do not realize that, but does that alone stop them? Seems to me, according to their Bible, that Heaven must be full by now, with all those dead Christians! After all, it only holds about 144,000, so how can anyone else fit in there?
Christianity has done it's best to stamp out Goddess worship, and with that, the subjugation and repression of women worldwide. It still goes on today, even here in America. The Goddess existed a long, long time before Christianity, and she is mentioned in the bible numerous times....what do you think the "Sophia of Christ" was, anyway? He was blessed by the Goddess with Wisdom. There will come a day when we all, men inclusive, will need the Feminine Power to escape this bloody world of greed and war.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by oneclickaway
reply to post by Totakeke
 




Jesus' death payed for our sins because He was sinless and the Son of God. He died for our sins so we wouldn't have to die a spiritual death (which means eternity in Hell). I could find the Bible verses, if you'd like.


So, as we now won’t have to die a spiritual death and spend eternity in hell….we can go on sinning happily then?
And how could the Son of God die?
No, please don’t find the Bible verses, there is only so much I can take.


No, you can't go on sinning happily because that means you haven't repented. A true Christian hates sin and strives not to sin.

The Son of God could die because He was a man, a human being.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Totakeke
 



The Son of God could die because He was a man, a human being.


So he was just a human being. It is very confusing. So as just a normal human being he was immaculately conceived, walked on water and had no sin. And yet no human can be without sin apparently. Now you will probably say that he came from God as his son onto the earth appearing as a human but was special and had special powers.
So then I would have to repeat that he, being the son of God, could not die in any real sense. Or are you saying he chose to come here and found himself in this dense vibration as powerless as everyone else.
And I still do not understand how his dying, which he seemed to either have no choice in, or chose to do, would absolve the sins of the world.
Surely it would be the other way around. Having killed the son of God we would now be cursed with the weight of the world for that worst sin of all time.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by oneclickaway
 




So he was just a human being. It is very confusing. So as just a normal human being he was immaculately conceived, walked on water and had no sin. And yet no human can be without sin apparently. Now you will probably say that he came from God as his son onto the earth appearing as a human but was special and had special powers.


He was the Son of God, but He was still a human, He was still flesh and blood. He didn't appear as a human, He was a human.



And I still do not understand how his dying, which he seemed to either have no choice in, or chose to do, would absolve the sins of the world.


Christ's death was a sacrifice. He died so we wouldn't die spiritually.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by iHateMasses
 


I've experienced this type of "teaching" myself. My girlfriend and i were walking to my car coming out of walmart when this lady came up asking, "on a scale of 1 to 10, how on fire are you for God"? She then proceeded to try and have us recite a prayer telling us that just by saying that we could be saved.

Its this kind of person who gives Christians such bad reputations. I for one, being a Christian, was completely insulted that this woman was going around using the name of my god to everyone she came in contact with. If someone is going to try to go out and convert people, then they need to have a thourough understanding of what they teach and not just go blabbing about whatever they read in a pamphlet. They need to spend time actually reading the Bible and learning/memorizing/applying scripture before should go out preaching what they think they know to others. It also takes TIME to teach someone, and no one can reach their salvation by saying a prayer in the walmart parking lot one afternoon. But thats just my soapbox...my point is that whoever was trying to influence you by asking if you knew your savior or if you wanted to be saved obviously had a rather weak background in actual scripture or they could do more than just generically discuss God and then make accusations or try to play a guilt card.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by Stylez
 

To be fair, I never did say that science can prove itself. This would be a bit misleading, because IMO it can lead to things like: "Science claims that the Earth revolves around our Sun. We don't need to do experiments because it just proves itself - just look through a telescope."

I did however say that what science claims can be proven right or wrong "if need be" IMO. Now that I think about it, I should have added that it could be proven right or wrong via a scientist or someone, but not by itself, in my opinion. For instance, if someone wanted to challenge the scientific claim that the earth revolves around the sun, then it can be proven right or wrong via experiments.

But yes, I believe it goes both ways when questioning things. Both parties will defend their beliefs and sometimes it will indeed lead to things like name-calling, what have you.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by iHateMasses
Sparked up from a previous post...

Nothing against Christians, but every time someone has tried to convert me to Christianity, it always started, and ended with the following three.

1. Do you know your lord a savior?
2. You need to learn who your god is because he loves you.
3. Don't you want to be saved?

To an extent I pretty much believe all of the books of modern day religion other than the book of mormon, and scientology... I don't take it all literally, and I see it more as an ancient description of historical events described as best as possible.

Now if I were to try to convert someone to something I believed would help them in their lives, telling them that a fiery death or else, would be the last thing to say. But that's just me


So could someone tell me why this is the mainstream method on Christian conversion?



I don't try to convert, but i DO mention why Catholic is better than other forms of Christianity:

-encourages science
-theory of evolution
-belief in extraterrestrials
-Bible is not literal
-Bible is not highest authority
-separation of church & state
-do what you want, just know the difference between right & wrong
-the least monotheistic of the monotheistic religions, which allows for a lot of paganism, as seen in Latin America and elsewhere

and i know there are bad things that could be said about Catholicism, but i haven't found a better religion yet. if i was to leave, i'd be Buddhist, but i don't believe in reincarnation. past life experiences, in my opinion, are ancestors lingering on in our genes.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by one_man24
reply to post by Hazelnut
 



God + Man= Eternal Life and Happiness (God's original equation)

Man - God= Sin, Death, and Struggle (Man's own equation)

(God + Man) + (Man - God) x God's Grace to the millionth power= Eternal Life and Happiness


Aren't you glad that God is such a great mathematician? lol



Umm.

if:
a+b = c
b-a = d
n = ^(1x10^6)

Then, you say:
c + d x e^n = c

Then, only if e = 1/c can n = ^(1.0x10^6) - even then, it is not = to c, it just gets closer the bigger you set a value to n:

if e = 1, then c + d = c + d. If e > 1, then c + d = a big number. If e < 1, then you are multiplying fractions by themselves = approaching a value - Zero.

So c + d x (1/c)^n ~ c

Therefore, God is also not an infinite, nor can his grace be. Since it is impossible to process 1/infinity (or any number +/- infinity, at that).

(Here's where I eradicate math law for your argument's sake):
Unless you mean god is, and was, always approaching 0... cuz 1/(a continuation of ever-increasing numbers) is always approaching 0, but never quite there. In essence, god is always - and always has been - diminishing. But it can't be both... which one is it?

Well let's look at Man. Man - infinity cannot be done, per se. But if we look at infinity as a quantified value (for your argument), then Man - infinity =/= Man. It equals sin, etc. b-a = b is false, b-a = d is true. Both b and a have to be defined in order to = d (which, also, is just a concept, but for the sake of your argument, I quantified it). Again, we're stuck with it can't be both... which one is it?

Well, mathematical principals say you can't process infinity as a number. So, unless God can be quantified - which your text says he can't - then either you suck at math or your text is correct and...

God sucks at math.

(Here is where I revive math law - call me Jesus)

Or your text is wrong and god is a living organism, only more evolved and apparently is an elitist; or he doesn't exist in anything but your mind; or, every religion on this planet has lied, for one reason or another, as to what 'god' is.

Oh, by the way, my bet is that your math sucks, mixed with a little bit of this post revival stuff.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by shanerz]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by shanerz]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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First off, I'm an agnostic as I can't put up with any religion. God wants to speak to me, he knows where I am, and I don't need a middle-man interpreting his words for me.

A few years back, I found a book about Buddhism and it was all in cartoon form, I was bored and read it. Some of the information stuck and I thought there was some good messages in there.
The recently whilst waiting for a friend in the middle of Manchester, I was approached by a man who asked if I had time for a short survey. Questions were simple enough, then it got to "Think of someone famous you look up to." I named a few different people from different backgrounds, Einstein, the Dalai Lama, Bach
"I notice you didn't mention Jesus!"
"Well no I'm a Buddhist" I lied.
Then he goes on about how Jesus is better than Buddha, and uses the clincher of "Jesus rose from the dead, Buddha did not"
A spark from the book I had read those years back flashed back to me: "Ah, but you see, as a Buddhist I believe in the non existance of time; there's no past, no future, only the present, the now. Therefore, Buddha has not died as there is no past."
He looked at me, blinked a few times, and walked off without another word, which I considered quite rude of him.
Since then, it has become a bit of a sport for me. I don't seek these people out, they find me, like Jehovah Witnesses knocking on my door, usually during meal times. (Why the hell do they walk around in pairs, one talks, the other stands in the background trying their best to do a Peter Lorre impression) Do I consider this cruel? No, it challenges belief. A belief un-challenged is in danger of becoming blind and can make those questioned a stronger believer. In return, I am questioned shoring up my defences against possible infiltration




1. Do you know your lord a savior?

Yes thank you.




2. You need to learn who your god is because he loves you.

I know, I speak to him all the time. It has been so much easier to hear him without the constraints of an organised religion stifling his voice or corrupting his word.



3. Don't you want to be saved?

He has already told me I'm saved.

Keep a straight face when talking, as it should be a game for both of you. If you can feign an enlightened face, sort of blissful peace with a hint of 'stoned' (not biblical stoned, which is not a good state to be in) even better.
If done correctly, the next time they're on their walkabout, you should see them stand outside your house, point at it, talk amongst themselves before deciding to move on to annoy your neighbors instead, as now happens with me.

In answer to your other question, the idea of damnation is a great idea and a real motivator! Back when this was being introduced by early Christians, life expectancy was low, 30-40 years, if you were a peasant, and not that much more for everyone else. Comparing that to an eternity (which is a pretty long time) in the bowels of Hell, made people think and basically put the fear of the Church rather than God into them. Obedience to the Church, no questioning clinched the deal and was a better prospect than the alternative. 30 years of grovelling on your knees and dividing what meager possessions you have between the Church and state, with the promise of the carrot on a stick which is Heaven, didn't seem that bad an idea.
The idea of what you're being 'Saved' from, has been changed over the last 2000 years as well, and is extremely interesting to examine. Even the Devil has changed so many times that he's unrecognisable from his original

My advice is to ask, what are you being saved from?
If it's Hell, then ask about early Christian beliefs of Hell and what they involved
If it's Purgatory, then ask about the Papal abolishement of this, including the phrase "As it is on Earth, so shall it be in Heaven"
Also be sure to ask them, what is Hell really like?
There was a good question featured on an episode of the Simpsons "With all the torment, wouldn't you get used to it after awhile?"

In summary, fight them at their own game. If their belief is unshakeable it won't do them any harm, question everything, and see if you can get the Peter Lorre character to talk.

A cruel one to use, which I've only ever done once, is divide and conquer! As stated they (usually) move in pairs. As they stand on your doorstep, invite only ONE of them in and examine the fear on their face.

I think this is the longest post I've done and hope that some of it is helpful



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:03 AM
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What about religion makes u so afraid. I don't care either way. I understand about some of it and yes some do go to extremes..but other than that...why hate. Why must you chalenge a belief?... I SO THE BELIEF OF ALIENS AND NWO SO DIFFERENT. you all offer the same evidence..pics, film and personal testimonals. What makes your bs more important the other?

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
What about religion makes u so afraid. I don't care either way. I understand about some of it and yes some do go to extremes..but other than that...why hate. Why must you chalenge a belief?... I SO THE BELIEF OF ALIENS AND NWO SO DIFFERENT. you all offer the same evidence..pics, film and personal testimonals. What makes your bs more important the other?

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]


As I stated previously, when you challenge a belief you strengthen it. If it is not for challenge, faith turns to blind faith, you mouth the words and mime the actions without corresponding what you're actions are. At my son's school is a priest that I've known since I was there 30 years ago. He knows my stance and beliefs, and we've had many conversations, arguments and debates, and I am glad to say that we are still friends. I think from the talks we have, we each walk away with a slightly different view. In a way this has brought me closer to God, maybe that's his plan

Religion in itself is not a danger, it's the people of the religion that have to be watched with care



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by ganja
 

I think you are making a big mistake about Jonah being swallowed by a whale. That is a misinterpretation made by men.

The actual verse, Jonah, 1:17 says "Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights."

You have made the mistake many others make. You base your arguement on what you hear, instead of taking time to look it up. The verse states God "prepared a great fish." Could God, for his own reasons, made (or "prepared") as special creature for this one miracle?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Bombeni
 


I don't think its obsession so much as it is wonderment, curiosity, and to be frank, annoyance. Also, it's not like Christianity is something that is inconspicuous in anyone's life. There are people, as you can see in my post, seriously, sometimes negatively, affected by Christianity in a negative way.

Some might not be so "obsessed" with it if it weren't forced in their faces all the time.

But...I'm sure Christians feel the same way about non-religious/atheists, conversely.


Again, if you are so darn content and happy: your words below


someone who has a wonderful and happy life who couldn't ask for anything more (like me


why are you bothered by what any of the rest of us are doing?

In fact, if there is a chance you may hold the secret to eternal life in YOUR hands, maybe you should start your own religion.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
What about religion makes u so afraid. I don't care either way. I understand about some of it and yes some do go to extremes..but other than that...why hate. Why must you chalenge a belief?... I SO THE BELIEF OF ALIENS AND NWO SO DIFFERENT. you all offer the same evidence..pics, film and personal testimonals. What makes your bs more important the other?

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by kerazeesicko]


Finally, an intelligent well-though-out post. Maybe they are afraid of what they know deep in their own spirit, NOT of what people on a chat board, or pulpit say. There has to be much more to their anger and complaining than just telling Christians to shut up. Time and time again you have athiests coming into threads pertaining to God and having a heyday, and I say where's there's smoke there's fire.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Yeah. And what rules do we follow. I mean, am I to be Born again, evangelist, Catholic, Church of England, Greek Orthodox, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, South American ?!?!? Each one is very very different as well. I might pay Christianity a little more respect if there is ONE WORD, ONE INTERETATION, ONE BOOK.

I'm an ex Christian. Basically I read the bible and realised (Although there are a few nice bits in it) that its a load of contradictory nonsense. Its really is a convoluted mess that has been changed so many times over the years that I can’t see how anyone can follow it. God…well I’m open to the concept, Jesus…I’m open to the concept.

But I’m an intelligent chap (Well enough to read a book and put 2 + 2 = 4), and I just can’t justify Christianity. It seems like if this is the answer we need a 2nd coming just to correct all the damage that has been done in the name of god…..and re-write the bible as well.

I also read a post by someone earlier when myself and a few others were challenging them about the Though Shalt not kill, but in the old testament god pretty much commanded his/her followers to commit genocide on several occasions. The reply was, war is not murder!. So in a Christian eyes, if you don’t agree with someone….its OK to kill them because you are taking out the enemy.

What happened to turn a cheek and all that.

This is the whole problem I have with religion . Humans are intrinsically stupid, and if there was a god and a religion and a way of life that we are meant to be following, then us humans have perverted that message with our division and stupidity so many times over the centuries to the point that what we have today is …well…rubbish.

I mean any one with a brain can read the bible back to back and realise that it contradicts itself so many times its unreal. It’s a mess!! Who was mean to be editing this thing.

So if there are any Christians on this post…what is the true message of god?

(I bet we get several very different answers)



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by Water-tastes-good
 


No offense chap but the bible is a twisted message. Anyone got a copy of the original? I think in these times you just need to be good, do good and think good. If thats not good enough then god needs to show us the way. 2000 years of Chinese whispers is not a good thing to rely on.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by kilas
reply to post by Hazelnut
 

So if there are any Christians on this post…what is the true message of god?
(I bet we get several very different answers)



Well here's mine. I'm going to use a story from one of the early Christians who studied the works of Apostle John fervently. I believe it tells the true message of God.

St. Jerome relates that when age and weakness grew upon the Apostle John at age of 96, so that he was no longer able to preach or make long discourses to the people, he used always to be carried to the assembly of the faithful by his disciples with great difficulty; and every time said to his flock only these words, "My dear children, love one another." When his auditors, wearied with hearing constantly the same thing, asked him why he always repeated the same words, he replied, "Because it is the precept of the Lord, and if you comply with it, you do enough ": an answer, says St. Jerome, worthy the great St. John, the favourite disciple of Christ, and which ought to be engraved in characters of gold, or rather to be written in the heart of every Christian.
ref. www.ewtn.com...



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