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the first 9/11

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posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 08:52 PM
This isn't a conspiracy per se. But I thought this was a very interesting bit of history that I learned tonight. But I am sure one of the ATS smarties maybe can make a connection

my mom is an avid genealogist by hobby. Very thorough and precise. She was doing research on my great great grandfather's , brother's wife's grandfather. If you can figure out that relation, more power to you. And it is a distant enough relation no one can accuse me of anything.

But this wife's grandfather, was Isaac Haight, the leader of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Now I have never heard of this massacre, but I am sure many on ATS have.

The Mountain Meadows massacre was a mass slaughter of the Fancher-Baker emigrant wagon train at Mountain Meadows, Utah Territory, by the local Mormon militia on September 11, 1857. It began as an attack, quickly turned into a siege, and eventually culminated in the execution of the unarmed emigrants after their surrender. All of the party except for seventeen children under eight years old—about 120 men, women, and children—were killed.[1] After the massacre, the corpses of the victims were left decomposing for two years on the open plain,[2] their children were distributed to local Mormon families, and many of their possessions auctioned off at the Latter Day Saint Cedar City tithing office.[3]

It is known as the first 9/11, having occurred on the same day in 1857.

Historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including war hysteria fueled by millennialism and strident Mormon teachings by top LDS leaders including Brigham Young.[8] These teachings included doctrines about God's vengeance against those who had killed Mormon prophets, some of whom were from Arkansas. Scholars debate whether the massacre was caused by any direct involvement by Brigham Young,[9] who was never officially charged and denied any wrongdoing. However, the predominant academic position is that Young and other church leaders helped provide the conditions which made the massacre possible.[10]

wiki link

Here are more links:
mountain meadows


Their bodies were left rotting in the sun. The federals had to initiate a operation to go in and rescue the children.

maybe we have some experts who can chime in.

Poeple talk about what is wrong with the world today. But the world always has been wrong.

I don't think massacre even describes this. Those poor people.

Just thought that was interesting.

posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 09:21 PM
reply to post by nixie_nox

Here is a very shocking coincidence. September 11, 2009 will be the 400th Anniversary of Henry Hudson's landing on Manhattan Island.

Now there is a huge coincidence.

posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 09:53 PM

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by nixie_nox

Here is a very shocking coincidence. September 11, 2009 will be the 400th Anniversary of Henry Hudson's landing on Manhattan Island.

Now there is a huge coincidence.

Doesn't it seem about 8 years off to be huge? lol


So I don't get it, was this a false flag? Did the Mormons blame it on an enemy?

Or was this "just" a massacre?

posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:18 PM
The first 9/11 can be traced back to anchient egypt. 9/11 is the first day of the year according to the Coptic (Egyptian) calendar.

September 11 - It is usually the first day of the Coptic calendar and Ethiopian calendar

The Coptic calendar, also called the Alexandrian calendar, is used by the Coptic Orthodox Church and still used in Egypt. This calendar is based on the ancient Egyptian calendar.

A tablet from the reign of First Dynasty King Djer (c. 3000 BC) was conjectured by early Egyptologists to indicate that the Egyptians had already established a link between the heliacal rising of Sirius (Egyptian Sopdet, Greek Sothis), and the beginning of the year.

THe heliacal rising of Sirius (9/11) has been traced back to 4241 BC tle&resnum=11

Here is a picture of Mohammed Atta (Eygyptian) passing through airport security in Portland, Maine at 5:45am on 9/11/01. Sunrise in Portland, Maine occurred at 6:15am on 9/11/01

[edit on 26-8-2009 by In nothing we trust]

posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:03 AM
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

You guys are a bunch of wet rags. I thought this was an interesting bit of American history that no one seems to hear about.

But lets keep to either the repetive topics on ATS, or the fact that obama brushed his teeth this morning.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:27 AM
It marked the beginning of the Utah war, which I have never heard of either.

It was bascially the mormons(and this is in no way mormon bashing) were basically trying to establish Utah as a mormon utopia.


the Utah War was America's "most extensive and expensive military undertaking during the period between the Mexican and Civil Wars, one that ultimately pitted nearly one-third of the US Army against what was arguably the nation's largest, most experienced militia."[4]

Now this is interesting...

A 2008 Provo Daily Herald newspaper article characterized McLean as a man that had "hunted down" Pratt in retribution for "ruining his marriage".[11] A 2008 Deseret News article described McLean as a man that had "pursued Pratt across Missouri, Oklahoma and Arkansas, angry that his estranged wife, Eleanor, had become Pratt's 12th wife."[12] But many Mormons viewed Pratt's death as a martyrdom, a view first expressed in Pratt's dying words.[13] (But according to LDS church records, his dying words were not recorded until 38 years after his death.)[14][15] In the present day, Pratt's defenders still characterize the circumstances of Pratt's death as religious martyrdom. For example, a 2007 article in the Deseret Morning News stated that "Pratt was killed near Van Buren, Ark., in May 1857, by a small Arkansas band antagonistic toward his teachings."[16] Brigham Young compared Pratt's death with those of Joseph and Hyrum Smith,[17] and many Mormons blamed the death on the state of Arkansas, or its people.[18]

Due to his personal popularity and his position in the Council of the Twelve, Pratt's murder in Arkansas was a significant blow to the Latter-day Saint community in the Rocky Mountains, when they began hearing about it in June 1857.[19] The violent death of Pratt may also have played a part in events leading up to the Mountain Meadows massacre five months later.[20] This massacre resulted in the deaths of the majority of the Baker-Fancher Party travelling to Southern California along the Mormon Road (a portion of the Old Spanish Trail). After the massacre, some Mormons circulated rumors throughout the southern Utah Territory that one or more members of the party had murdered Pratt,[21] poisoned creek water which subsequently sickened Paiute children,[22] and allowed their cattle to graze on private property.[23]

Parley P. Pratt is the great great great grandfather of Mitt Romney.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 09:34 AM
Good thread! Just thought I'd chime in to say that 9/11/1941 (or 1940?)was ground-breaking on the Pentagon. Also, 9/11/1973 Augusto Pinochet seized control of Chile from Salvator Allende in a CIA backed military coup.

posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 06:30 PM
reply to post by In nothing we trust

Oh, that is where Dog days of summer comes from. Thanks!

So not only was ground broken for the pentagon on 9/11. It was attacked on 9/11, and according to wiki they started rebuilding on 9/11 on the pentagon. Interesting. it seems that time of year just seems to bring trouble. Though I would guess the latter was done for dramatic effect.
Not scientfically speaking, just my observation.

I wiki random dates. Many seem to be not as busy. And those who are not as dark.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

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