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A question for 9/11 truthers...

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posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 



If everyone is entitled to their own belief then why do most who don't agree with the official story label those who do as "sheep"?


Perhaps they are.


I personally don't care if you guys think martians came to earth and blew the crap out of the WTC and the Pentagon.


So, why the anger issue?


But show the same courtesy in you mentioned in your previous post to everyone. Not just to the various groups who denies the official story.


Where did I make any such statement to various groups?


A new conspiracy, new to me atleast that could be added to the list.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


So what?


Someone actually thinks it could be possible for aliens to have caused 9/11.


Why do you let such nonsense bother you, most people who have done their research into 911 laugh at such ridiculous claims? Are you trying to compare aliens causing the WTC demolition with all people who do not believe in the OS?


edit again to add- the bit about maritans blowing up the WTC came before I found that post. So you see what I'm getting at.


Not really, I do not believe in the OS and when I stumble on information that you just showed I know it is false and laughable at best. I just dismiss such nonsense and most people do on both sides. People are entitle to their beliefs no matter how ridiculous they are, the deal is can YOU change their mind.




posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 


I'm not bothered or angry about it in the least.

I think the fanatics on both sides of the fence are great entertainment. I was just posting my opinion.

Obviously you don't agree with it so I guess there really isn't anything else to be said.

Goodnight.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 


This is my two cents..

The plane's were a product of project blue beam, (holograms)..

The plane's didnt explode on impact, they flew through the building as if they were apperitions..

The noise people heard, was not jet engines but the sound of missles.. Obviously real physical missles that were hidden in side the holograms them selfs, and you can clearly see the missles making contact with the buildings at last moment, they hit the buildings a fraction of a second before the "plane's" hit..

And the notion that criminal elements in the government didnt take part, but just let it happen is rediculous..

The buildings fell due to controlled demolition, im sure we can all agree on that.. It would of took months of preperation to wire up the three buildings, it would have had to have direct involvment from the criminal government..



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Well as I understand it, either the high jackers were funded/guided by assets under US
control (unbeknownst to them) and allowed to slip into the position to do it.

Or the above +

The planes were switched out painted and/or "original planes" were rigged/hacked to be flown remotely.

I believe a couple of the planes used were still listed as active in the fleet for a short time afterwards which would indicate part AND of the second scenario.

I think the CGI thing was someone with to much time or an attempt to DEATH PANEL the whole idea, add a extra twist of craziness via the real perpetrators.

Collapse was planted stuff before hand


[edit on 27-8-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 27-8-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
The streets weren't exactly empty on 9/11. There were tons of people who saw, or claim to have seen the planes crash into the towers and the Pentagon.


Inlcuding my wifes cousin, who was in building 2 and watched the first plane hit. I have never talked to her first hand about it. I just know what she told the family.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by danielsil18
The airplane is real, the people in the airplanes are real and the hijackers are real.

The conspiracy is that the government knew that this was going to happen and they let the hijackers do what they came here to do.






I echo this sentiment.

You must remember that not all "truthers" agree on how the whole thing went down, and many believe different things. Thus, you can't label all truthers as beliving the same thing.

Thus, I believe the passengers and phone calls were real. The planes were real. The hijackers were real (though I suspect some might have been double agents/plants).

What I think is that there was heavy involvement and aid by several different elements of a few governments, namely the Saudis, Pakistanis, Israelis, and our own.

However, this does not mean I believe in holographic planes, flyovers, missiles hitting the pentagon, and non existant people.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by Ignorance Denied
 


Which still leaves the questions I gave in the OP. Your scenario answers none of them.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Want my opinion?

Hijackers, paid to fulfill a duty to someone. Who? I don't know. Real planes, real people died, real planted explosives.

You question is kind of vague. Yes there were alot of people of those planes. Alot of Americans who had no clue as to what was going on. The phone calls were real. These people were scared for their life and made life or death decisions. The NYC witnesses are real. They saw what they perceived to be airplanes hitting both buildings.

Now, as far as conspiracy theories, all that information is for you to decide and believe. No one here will make your mind up for you.

I for one watched "The Arrivals" in full, it all added up after that. But, you take everything with a grain of salt. Believe only what you want to believe.




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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What about Building 7? What about the firefighters who heard explosions? what about the reporters who heard and reported live about explosions? More so, what about the lack of investigation? The contradictions and omissions of the 911 commission report - Kissenger being the head of it at first…but we can stick to building 7 for now. all we need is the video to see what hit the pentagon right? all we need to find the truth is an investigation - one that happens soon after a crime right? why were the BBC and Fox News reporting that WTC Building fell with WTC building 7 clearly in the background? the point is history needs answers - to get that we need your support. lets lay out the facts and let people decide for themselves.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 



I think the fanatics on both sides of the fence are great entertainment. I was just posting my opinion.



Fanatics, I think that is a poor choice of words. I see you in here supporting the OS all the time, should I label you a Fanatic?



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by danielsil18
 


Yes I've been looking into all of the warnings that were highlighted in the book 'timeline of 911" I think. I could be wrong on the title here but the jist is that there were dozens if not hundreds of warnings from sources around the world that something was going to happen. This cannot be denied there is documentation. Research this. Whatever else might be considered illogical or easily debunked...this is not.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 


I rarely post in the 9/11 forum. You may have me confused with someone else. When I first joined I might have been an active poster, but anytime I question an alternative theory I got called a sheep.

Got kind of tired of that.

I'm for any theory that can be put to a physical test that supports their story. I haven't seen any from the truther movement. They are to busy refuting a test that supports the "OS" to conduct one of their own.

You can call me what you wish.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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To OP:


A British magazine called them "the weird men behind George W. Bush's war."

www.sojo.net...
tvnewslies.org...
www.vyzygoth.com...


Osama bin Laden, a.k.a. Tim Ossman in the CIA got tagged as the new "outside enemy" after the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990's and they went off the map as our old "outside enemy." With bin Laden, "radical muslims" "muhjahdeen fighters" (recruited by the CIA, Saudi and Pakistani intel agencies to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan) and now "Islamofascist" (makes no damned sense as a word) the new "outside enemy" was invented by the American government agents of the Zionist, neocon, NWO, Straussian agenda.

pilotsfor911truth.org...



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRobertsSeveral family members and friends of those who were on the planes received phone calls from those onboard the planes stating that Middle Eastern men had hijacked the aircraft.


Look up "Operation Northwoods":

abcnews.go.com...


In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.




Were these friends and family members in on it? Or those who placed the calls?


Passenger lists were faked. Calls were faked. News reports were scripted/fake.


And what about the thousands of eye witnesses in NYC?


People saw "a plane". They saw a military decoy aircraft, not any of
the suggested airliners as told by the official story. There is no proof to
this day that any American, or United Airlines aircraft were involved.

Once you learn the tricks pulled in the 1960's for false flag operations,
9/11 will be very apparent as a total scam to invade the middle east
(to this day no proof to support these wars).



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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One day I will sit down and just read this entire forum.

I never even thought about the phone calls, or the fact that a hologram airplane seems so difficult technologically, and stuff like that. It's not my area of expertise at all. But if I believe anything fishy was going on, it would have to do with the possible controlled demolitions and WTC 7 more than anything.

And the fact that 9/11 still isn't specifically mentioned on Osama's FBI page. It's under "other terrorist attacks" I guess. But it's still a weird detail.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 02:30 AM
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Its not just that they "LET" it happen. Those towers did not come down as a result of a plane strike. Bottom line.

Not one scenario that day, or any part of the official story provides reason for there being hot spots of 2000+ degrees weeks after the collapse. It's an impossibility, jet fuel cannot do that. The resulting fires COULD NOT DO THAT. Nothing.


So lets look at the facts.

We know that the official story cannot account for insanely hot temperatures. These temperatures had to have played a role in the "collapse". Well if the official story doesn't account for them, that means something happened inside those buildings.

Once you understand that fact, and have any shred of logic.

You then must ask, how is possible that hijackers flying on planes, were able to do anything inside the buildings prior to 911, in preparation for 911?

Oh really... they couldn't have? NO WAY?!


Besides you debunker fools can bounce around all day ridiculing the alternative theories of that day but the bottom line is that you and noone in the official story camp can answer a lot of serious questions.

- Why the temperatures?
- Why only 6 frames out of ten's of cameras that would have caught entire pentagon strike?
- How did WTC 7 experience complete, systematic failure allowing for near free fall speeds while only having minimal fires and SUPERFICIAL damage to the facade in one portion?
-- To elaborate, if you believe the damage to the facade was enough to cause a complete collapse to happen at the exact same time, even on the opposite corner of the building where there was no damage - why didn't the collapse happen towards the weakened facade?
- Who told Norad to stand down? Prior to 911 and since 911, there has never been a case of an interception taking an hour or more. So how did they fail to make any interceptions in almost an hour and a half, when they had 4 chances to get it right?
- Why is there so many inconsistencies with everything to do with 93?
- How did the plane at the pentagon create one small hole, and do absolutely no damage with its entire wingspan and engines? Not to mention the vertical stabilizer?
- Why was all evidence melted down and shipped off?
- Why was no official investigation started IMMEDIATELY?

- WHY DID CHENEY AND OTHER NEONAZI'S WRITE A DOCUMENT CALLED "REBUILDING AMERICAS DEFENSES" IN WHICH THEY CALLED FOR A "NEW PEARL HARBOR" TO BE A CATALYZING EVENT TO EXPAND MILITARY AND DEFENSE SPENDING?

- Why were the plans to invade Afghanistan on bush's desk on September 10th?
- Why would a terrorist bent on destruction go out of his way to complete upto a 270degree downward spiral, at the pentagon, avoiding ALL Pentagon brass and hitting the only section of the building designed to take such a hit?
- Is it coincidence that the attack at the pentagon wiped out the accounting department and the entire accounting team? No later than 1 day after Rumsfeld announced 2.3 trillion missing? That team was investigating those missing funds.

(NOTICE THE TREND, ACCOUNTANTS DEAD CAUSE OF TERRORISTS "IMPOSSIBLE" FLYING, RUMSFELD SAFE ON OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BUILDING) WHAT A NICE TERRORIST!

On top of all that, it has been proven throughout history that the United States has used false flag operations to launch wars. In fact, if 911 were not an inside job, it would be the first time that the government did not use false flag attacks to get into a war.

A brief run down, WWI the sinking of Lusitania. WWII, Illegal trade moves against the Japanese, forcing the Japanese to strike first, then allowing the attack to go on without any warning to pearl harbor. And the gulf of tonkin incident for Vietnam. Which is now unclassified and a large joke on the American public.

They use the same exact tricks over and over and over, problem, reaction, solution, and you stupid, ignorant Americans gobble it up.

If you fools still believe people like Bush, Cheney, Obama, etc give one flying # about you, you're absolutely ignorant and I suggest sterilization for you and your family. Logic can only kick someone in the face so hard, and if that still can't give em a grip, they are best removed from the gene pool, for everyone's sake.


[edit on 1-9-2009 by king9072]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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2 things we need to look at.

9/11 happened....Boom...REGARDLESS OF what happneed we can all agree that the STORY DOESNT MAKE SENSE the way it was spoonfed to us.
You can literally watch the lies from the administration.
So planes? no planes? faked script?
We can get into detail and find things that dont even belong there...or things that maybe "shouldnt" be there...
BUT I think anybody who thinks that a group of cave-dwellers who live in the mountains had not only the intelligence, but the skills and money and secrecy to TAKE DOWN THE MILITARY AND ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER IN THE WORLD AT THE TIME.

A group of 20 people.....took down the US?
really? 2 towers and the ****** Pentagon??

So if you still believe that 9/11 happened exactly how it did and we all look into this to much...then lets all follow this.
9/11 happened....regardless of how it happned it happened. AND ALL OF US feel the sympathy for those people that were lost on that day.
Many will argue that Patriotism is what got us through that,
Many will argue that it was a ploy to get us united against an enemy.
All of us felt the loss though.....people WE STILL DONT KNOW about Kennedy...officially
We gotta work on not relying on the government...since they obviously couldnt protect us then..wont tell us the turh now..and will forget about us for forever



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 



I rarely post in the 9/11 forum.


That my friend is not true.


You may have me confused with someone else.


No I don’t think so.


I might have been an active poster, but anytime I question an alternative theory I got called a sheep.


Should I feel sorry for you? I have been call worst!


I'm for any theory that can be put to a physical test that supports their story.


Well, we all know the OS has NOTHING to support it so far. So why do you support it?


I haven't seen any from the truther movement.


Your ignorance is noted! Maybe you are in denial because I have seen plenty of scientific evidences that prove the OS is a lie furthermore; I have posted a lot of this information myself. I don’t have to believe in a conspiracy, I believe in what the credible scientific facts and evidences that proves a different event happened altogether. What do most lairs do when they are caught, they usually say NOTHING! That is how our government is responding “nothing”.


They are to busy refuting a test that supports the "OS" to conduct one of their own.


That my friend is not true. What test are you talking about? And if there is this test please show how the government is correct? Please show the sciences with sources and links, I don’t believe in hearsay information thank you.



[edit on 1-9-2009 by impressme]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 05:07 AM
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Oh hi everyone, you Truthers, why don`t you use the FOIA, and ask NIST for disclosure, and why you`re at it why not look at the 85 videos the F.B.I. confiscated, and all those first responders that said they heard explosions are on crack, all the explosions clearly heard on videos are a thunderstorm, also take a look at Hani Hanjour`s piloting assessment, he narrowly missed the main role for Top Gun.

And the fires it`s clearly heard on the fireman audio that the bloody fires needed two lines to lock them down, two lines Jeeeez, open your eyes, 88 storeys had two isolated pockets of fire, we`re not talking one pocket here, but two, anyone would think those towers were built to withstand a Jet crash.

This was Al Qaeda, you all know who Al Qaeda are?, i`ll show you.....

www.cracked.com...

If you want to know more, look on the F.B.I. most wanted site, not sure whom they actually want for 9/11 now, I think the last time I looked it was Al Gore.

I really cannot see what evidence there is of an inside job, I mean Bush said it was Al Qeada, and he never says the wrong thing, well okay the occasional `I saw 1st plane crash on T.V `, easy mistake to make, hell the B.B.C say similar things all the time, watching a T.V. in a place where there was not, and never has been one there, of video footage that was not released for another 24 hours, hell, it`s a very easy mistake to make.

You truthers duh, next you`ll be saying that the C.I.A trained Bin Laden etc.

Play by the rules, FOIA and withheld evidence, I swear to God if I hear another GL mention that evidence word.....................



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I just have a question. It's the one thing that keeps me from even contemplating the possibility of an inside job.


So you can't even contemplate the possibility that an inside job is compatible with telephone calls stating that "middle eastern men" had taken over the planes??


Several family members and friends of those who were on the planes received phone calls from those onboard the planes stating that Middle Eastern men had hijacked the aircraft. Were these friends and family members in on it? Or those who placed the calls? And what about the thousands of eye witnesses in NYC? (OK, so more than one question, but all along the same theme.)


Even if you accept the veracity of the phone calls, why does that rule-out an inside job? Do you think the supposed insiders who planned the attack would have used a bunch of rednecks as their patsies instead?

You seem to be insinuating that if the hijackers were "middle eastern" looking, then it could not have been an inside job. That makes no sense to me. Is there something about middle eastern genetics which somehow immunizes them from playing the role of a patsy or unwitting accomplice?

But hey, I'm answering your questions with more questions. So I'll take a stab at some answers:

1. Were there people on the planes? I don't know. Probably. Whoever orchestrated the attack obviously was not concerned with preserving human life, so killing the passengers would not be a problem for them. But even supposing they did use unoccupied drones or the like, it would not be hard for a small group of operatives to fake the calls. The technology to do this had been around for quite a while in 2001.

2. What about the 1000s of witnesses in NYC? They saw planes hit the buildings. So what? That says nothing about who sent the planes into the buildings. "Inside job" is not the same as "no planes". Even if there were no planes, they had to make the illusion very convincing to fool the thousands of witnesses, not to mention the cameras. So planes or no planes, the fact that there were lots of witnesses does not in any way rule out an inside job.


I just can't wrap my head around the possibility of a conspiracy that would have to have involved hundreds, if not thousands of people to be in on it. Or that none of the co-conspirators have come forward. I will look at all replies seriously and with an open mind.


Compartmentalization. A properly crafted covert operation can be segmented into sub-operations which are unaware of each others' activities, and therefore do not see the "big picture". Individuals who do pose a risk of exposure can be blackmailed, threatened, or simply taken-out. The number of those who have a bigger piece of the picture or are able to connect the dots can be kept fairly small, and these people are probably "true believers" anyway. Think Manhattan Project. Bletchley Park. MK-Ultra.


[edit on 1-9-2009 by zerotensor]



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