God Commands You To Kill Gays

reply to post by detachedindividual


Sorry not to comment more on your post but my first shift in weeks starts soon so I have to go!!

But is the quote from Al Pacino in Devils Advocate, or maybe Gabriel 'someone' from End of Days??

Peace

Originally posted by Blaine91555
No real Christian has ever harmed anyone other than in the act of defending themselves, family or country unless they have since repented for the act. No real Christian has ever given a hateful speech for which they have not later repented for their sinful behavior. I'll leave it to God to judge.

Not exactly true my friend...
I agree with your general opinion, but, just to be clarified, because i think this is very important also:

- In The Crusades: A History; Second Edition, Jonathan Riley-Smith writes:

"For most of the last two thousand years Christian justifications of violence have rested on two premises. The first was that violence — defined crudely as as an act of physical force which threatens, deliberately or as a side-effect, homicide or injury to the human body — was not intrinsically evil. It was morally neutral until qualified by the intention of the perpetrator. If his intention was altruistic, like that of a surgeon who, even against wishes of his patient, amputated a limb — a measure which for most of history endangered the patient’s life — then the violence could be regarded as being positively good.

The second premise was that Christ’s wishes for mankind were associated with a political system or course of political events in this world. For the crusaders his intentions were embodied in a political conception, the Christian Republic, a single, universal, transcendental state ruled by him, whose agents on earth were popes, bishops, emperors and kings. A personal commitment to its defence was believed to be a moral imperative for those qualified to fight. Propagandists gave this theory expression in terms the faithful could understand: within the earthly extension to Christ’s universal empire the Holy Land was his royal domain or patrimony; Livonia (approx. Latvia) on the Baltic was the Blessed Virgin Mary’s private estate, a kind of queen mother’s dowery. "

Crusades

Also, we can't forget what the holly inquisition have done in the past..also in the name of Christ... ...

How many died from the inquisition?

In this case the inquisition was in fact state ministry, not papal organization! But it was authorized by the papacy and thereafter used by monarchs .

Is indeed curious that even the church don't always have followed the "You shall not kill" !!...



[edit on 27/8/09 by Umbra Sideralis]

reply to post by Stylez


It's very difficult to simply accept that not all Christian followers are such hateful and ignorant creatures.
We know it, but sometimes it's very hard to see.

We do try, but it's not easy when you have the church SUPPORTING people like this.
People listen to these opinions, senior religious figures remain silent or continue their support of such people.

One way to truly make the point you raise would be for people to openly condemn such outspoken religious nuts who make these statements under the banner of their religion!

In the UK we've made great leaps forward, supporting gay people in the clergy and in the most senior positions. That's the way forward, show people through actions rather than ignoring the issue entirely (or worse, through silent support).

Sorry, double post on edit.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by detachedindividual]

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis

Originally posted by kommunist
I see...

So what ever happened to "Thou shalt not kill."

Seem to remember that being one of the ten commandments.

to right wing Christian nutjobs using religion to mask their prejudice and hate.

I think that this really dosen't mean nothing at all...it must to be used at will just to serve personal agendas...
Remember that even the Chatolic church have started and mantained for years several wars with the Cruzades, and the holly inquisition have also killed many thousands of people!...so i agree perfectly with you, when you ask ...:

"What ever happened to "Thou shall not kill."?!

[edit on 27/8/09 by Umbra Sideralis]

Its thou shall not commit murder, God doesn't say you cannot kill someone trying to break into your home or defend your family.

By the way, religion accounts for only 7% of the worlds wars in history, the crusades are a great example of secularism using religion to manipulate the religous into fighting wars really about territory and of societies in history, it is Godless ones that literally killed MILLIONS when Religious outrage finally put an end to it.

Originally posted by LestatG
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Sorry not to comment more on your post but my first shift in weeks starts soon so I have to go!!

But is the quote from Al Pacino in Devils Advocate, or maybe Gabriel 'someone' from End of Days??

Peace

Actually, It was Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails.

"He sewed his eyes shut because he was afraid to see
He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity
He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity

Your God is dead, and no one cares
If there is a hell I'll see you there

He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion atrocities done in his name

Your God is dead and no one cares
Drowning in his own hypocrisy
And if there is a hell I'll see you there

Burning with your God in humility
Will you die for this?"

Amazing song.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by Stylez

 

It's very difficult to simply accept that not all Christian followers are such hateful and ignorant creatures.
We know it, but sometimes it's very hard to see.

We do try, but it's not easy when you have the church SUPPORTING people like this.
People listen to these opinions, senior religious figures remain silent or continue their support of such people.

One way to truly make the point you raise would be for people to openly condemn such outspoken religious nuts who make these statements under the banner of their religion!

In the UK we've made great leaps forward, supporting gay people in the clergy and in the most senior positions. That's the way forward, show people through actions rather than ignoring the issue entirely (or worse, through silent support).

Gays want to be gay, they can be gay but I see them doing many things worthy of the same rebuke this minister is worthy of and it has nothing to do with who they love but who they hate.

In addition to your thoughtful post I would add that I sincerly believe MOST religious people would come away thinking the same thing many here have said without casting a blanket over themselves. I am sure they get a lot of mail from other church's advising them what kind of hardship that activity causes for the lions share that do not come close to subscribing to it

reply to post by detachedindividual


Great, I can go to work now!!! It would have bugged me all day, anyway happy debating all I will check back on the thread when I return. Its a good thread (the following debate, not what the pastor said)!

Peace

reply to post by Stylez


Even if was just ,0001% of the world wars, that would not legitimate the action at all!
Not acceptable at all for something like "The Church".
But that's not so important here, because my point was to show how even the Church can go against is teachings. If they start 1, or 200 wars is not relevant for the subject.

Originally posted by Stylez

Its thou shall not commit murder, God doesn't say you cannot kill someone trying to break into your home or defend your family.

I am terrible sorry, but it does not say nothing also about " you can murder people invading your house...!
It just don't have exeptions!
All the other possible interpretations are just how diferent people read this, but that don't shift the true...

"You shall not commit murder" dosen't show any exeption to the rule!

Murder & killing may have diferent meanings, but just in very especific subjects and cases. In this case i don't see that.

IMO sure

BUT HE ALSO COMMANDS YOU TO SAVE RUSSIAN JEWS, AND COLLECT VALUABLE PRIZES!



[edit on 27-8-2009 by midnightbrigade]

If God says so.

The Bible is full of killing on orders from God.

I am wondering why you are so shocked.

It's important to remember that the God of the Old Testament does not appear to be the same God of the New Testament.

The interesting parts of the Old Testament are when you look at it and read what God actually does, and then compare it to what is done in his name. Its never the same. God eradicates, no messing! Flood, death of the first born, Sodomites, pillar of salt etc. I hate to use this phrase, but he uses style.
Then you have the people who work in the name of God, then you get your wars, genocide etc. One person going up to another and hitting him hard with a sword/stick/rock - no real sense of style. This is the Old Testament

God being the being that he is, is not one to pussy foot around. If he wants to erase homosexuals from existence then he could, heads exploding, burning, turning into pillars of salt. The guy created the universe, nothing is too much. The Old Testament tells us that God is vengeful, jealous and certainly not to be crossed.

Then enters the God of the New Testament. He's chilled and laid back, call him Father! Loves us so much he sends his only son down to Earth to be nailed to a tree. Forgiveness is his word!

They're not the same.

So therefore, choosing which parts of the Bible to obey can be confusing for some. The Testaments contradict each other, so what one has to do is chose which one to follow, as you can't do both without tripping over the contradictions. It's not a salad bar, where you choose to have a large wedge of Leviticus, side order of Genesis, and a bowl of Gospel of Matthew, but no Deuteronomy.

So taking this into account, if this so called 'Preacher' wishes to quote from the Old Testament, then he is not obeying the will of Jesus. In fact this is the opposite message of love, tolerance and forgiveness that as a Christian he is ordered to follow.
Basically, it's heresy and blasphemy that he's teaching. I believe the punishment for this is to be burned at the stake.

Originally posted by FantasmaTaans

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Spiritfilled

 

God is loving, but God is also just.

God also killed more people than Satan... Just saying...

Satan is the master of deception. He's caused billions to end up in Hell for eternity. Physical death is nothing compared to eternity in Hell.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by Totakeke

Satan is the master of deception. He's caused billions to end up in Hell for eternity. Physical death is nothing compared to eternity in Hell.

Got a link for that have you? lol

Originally posted by h3akalee
For some reason all i saw was "God commands you to kill Grays" as in gray alien's ?

Anyone else notice that hahahaha.

STRANGE !

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Exactly what I saw first. I had to adjust my eyes for a bit and then noticed my error. Very strange, maybe a divine message telling us not to trust the Grays.

Originally posted by Totakeke

Originally posted by FantasmaTaans

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Spiritfilled

 

God is loving, but God is also just.

God also killed more people than Satan... Just saying...

Satan is the master of deception. He's caused billions to end up in Hell for eternity. Physical death is nothing compared to eternity in Hell.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by Totakeke]

Money, greed, power, they all directly affect millions of people on this planet. It causes poverty and suffering beyond belief.

You still use money, you still claim ownership of property, and you still follow the leadership of those in power.

Where you see evil in imaginary beings and fairy tales, I see it in reality on this planet.

Which is more relevant?

reply to post by h3akalee


LMAO I say that at first too!

To the OP well this is very disturbing. Nobody should be executed for their sexual preference! I swear people need to wake up, gays are not bad people for heavens sake! All this hate towards them makes me a little angry.

Inside every one of these right wing evangelist zealots is a normal person that did not have the benefit of a normal upbringing and education . It is not always possible to ensure every child has an education that is bereft of bigotry , ignorant teachings and racism in some parts of this world , even supposedly civilized industrial nations . In some areas , this has gone on too long, we have seen them as an oddity , an aberration , a relic of the past , of the dark age ignorant religious peasant , that endures to this day . Why do we endure them any longer , why should we be dragged down into the gutter of ignorance by these few anymore .

reply to post by Spiritfilled


Ahh I found you..

I will not debate you, I will not engage you.. I will simply watch you.

You're a really horrible person. utterly.

I want to see how you work. Consider this a sort of ignore - you are on my terms. Everywhere you post I will ponder; What sort of hate will you spout next? And you have no control over it. At the end I may forget you, or I may actually interact with you. Seems a waste of time to put effort into talking at you however.

Just watching....