God Commands You To Kill Gays

Originally posted by A Fortiori

Actually, I'm not sure that you can make that argument as to the motivation of Jesus in that moment,

Nothing I wrote was remotely related to his motivations. Who are you referring to when you say “you?”

however, if you combine it with the parable of the debtor and his absolution of the fallen women whose "love covered a multitude of sins" then there is a distinct correlation in how he treated sinners--with forgiveness and a conviction that their positive actions outweighed the negative.

Yes, this is true which is why I closed my previous post with, “But whatever the case may be, did he tell the woman she didn't sin? No. What did he tell her to do? This is key.” However, what people fail to understand is that while God is loving, God is also just and holy. If homosexuality is a sin or abomination what happens to the person who refuses to repent?

If you study Jewish Law, and I did, you will know that there are "positive" and "negative" commandments. Jesus gave positive commandments. He asked people to "do" all the time. Feed the hungry, care for the poor, tend to the sick, forgive, etc. The only negative commandments he gave here to judge not, condemn not, etc.

He gave many negative commandments. There are many instances where he told people to not do certain things and it has nothing to do with judging or condemning, you’ll see an example in a bit.

Moreover, when presented with another "trap" regarding marriage and divorce he noted that "Moses gave you those laws for the hardness of your hearts". He didn't say "G-d" gave you those laws.

Yet what did he tell people to do? Did he tell them disobey the laws? No. In, Matthew 23 1-3, he actually told them to observe the laws and goes on to explain why in the following verses, and this goes back to what some of the questions I asked earlier. Were the people who brought forth the woman wrong because they had prior sins, or were they wrong because they themselves didn’t follow the law and used the situation to bring about harm instead of justice?

So, regardless of what the "Law" stated Jesus took opposition where it was reasonable (and kind) much like Hillel before him and Akiba after him. Did it not say to keep the Sabbath, but what did they say you should do if an ox fell down a well on the Sabbath?

See above. Yes Jesus wanted people to look at the context of things, (refer to the passage above), and we should, but people here make the mistake and think that Jesus was some all-loving hippy looking guy, very passive and walking around with a lamb chop on his shoulders preaching love and harmony 24-7.

My point is that the Messiah was to fulfill God's covenant and fulfill the promise of the Torah, therefore if you believe Jesus was Messiah (and I happen to) then you believe him to be the interpretation of G-ds intentions for his people.

God leading by example, I have no problem with your take on it.

G-d does not want me to kill gays, or anyone else. I'm to love my enemies as I love my friends. I'm supposed to forgive people, and to not judge others. I'm supposed to refrain from condemnation, and to spend a life of service to others in order to fulfill my part of the bargain asked of me in the twenty fifth chapter of Matthew.

I agree, but telling or showing someone the error of their ways is not judging or condemning. Jesus was very big on his message of leading by example, practicing what you preach, and letting your actions speak for themselves. In other words, when people see you, and see how you act, they’ll see God in you and be drawn to that. However, when your heart is in the wrong place, madness ensues, and this could be the reason why all of us are talking about this situation. Again, I’m not saying the man is right or wrong, I’m simply saying I haven’t heard the whole clip and will refrain from saying he is this or that until I do.

IF there are people who feel this way they are not Christians. They are also not Jews unless their mother was one they aren't apt to be embraced by an orthodox set that would go so far as to advocate stoning. They are "cafeteria" Christians, and not real lovers of Jesus or they would do like he asked them to--I mean, that's the very least we do for our friends, so oughtn't we do more for one we proclaim to love and worship?

This I can agree with, but in regards to the OP and the preacher in question, when did he ever say to kill gays? I’ve asked for the full clip like five times now, and no one has ever posted it.

Personal question, are you what people refer to as a Messianic Jew?


[edit on 7-9-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I don't believe God killed anyone. One of the Laws he gave to us and I might add Jesus said we were to keep the Laws says, "You must not kill or take a life" God would NOT kill. It is simply something he cannot or wouldnot do. And if you really had a relationship with God you would already know that.

Now, man on the other hand could have told a crowd that "God" told him that they were to go kill these people.

However, God has not hidden his hate for homosexual behavior and his desire to wipe those people out.

I as a Christian today can accept a gay person being that way but I do not support or believe that their lifestyle is right and Jesus died for their sin and they can be saved if they make that choice to follow Christ. I would be happy to share my pew with gay's but they have no right to be in leadership roles within the church while still living a gay lifestyle. They too must strive to be perfect and holy.


Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma

However, God has not hidden his hate for homosexual behavior and his desire to wipe those people out.

I would be happy to share my pew with gay's but they have no right to be in leadership roles within the church while still living a gay lifestyle. They too must strive to be perfect and holy.

‘Strive to be perfect and holy’

‘hate…his desire to wipe those people out.’

Need I say more?

reply to post by oneclickaway


The Lord did not make 2 men or 2 women to be together. He created man and woman to co-exist and have children. God did not make homosexuality, mankind did this. God is love and forgiving but he is also just. He hates homosexuality and makes it very clear. He loves the sinner but cannot accept the sin..



Peace to all,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by oneclickaway

 

The Lord did not make 2 men or 2 women to be together. He created man and woman to co-exist and have children. God did not make homosexuality, mankind did this. God is love and forgiving but he is also just. He hates homosexuality and makes it very clear. He loves the sinner but cannot accept the sin..



Peace to all,
Grandma

Haven't seen you in a while Grandma - I do remember you are respectful of others.

But - what you just posted is total Bull Pucky.

If you truly believe that - you live in a cloistered world void of any reality.

Man did create something - - he created hate - - prejudice - - and false reasons for what he fears or doesn't understand.

As once many illnesses and birth "differences" were because someone was cursed or in league with the Devil.

There is no excuse for ignorance.

Originally posted by Grandma
I don't believe God killed anyone.

Granny, you need to study your bible a little more closely.

How about all those plagues, floods, and Sodom and Gomorrah.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

See, there in lies the problem. So many lump anyone claiming to be a Christian together in one neat stack. I was guilty of it myself until very recently. It is the Faux Christians that give Christianity a bad name and leave such a bad taste in the mouths of alot of non-Christians. Trust me, from now on, I'll be calling the fakes out. I can and do respect True Christians. The posers can kiss my...

[edit on 3-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

Lemme guess, the fake ones, would be the ones that disagree with you .

Jaxon, don't even think you can expect anyone to appreciate your abmonishing people like empire as some enlightened seuthsayer telling Christians when they are or aren't a "true" one because you simply don't know. Everyones Christian walk comes at its own pace and the lessons they learn are unique in regard to their frame of referance.

The fact is, if you knew Christianity so well, you would also know that they believe Christ is the way and the life, and no one comes to the father but through him. Having said that, the question arises then why you aren't one and why then should anyone listen to someone telling others TRYING to be when you aren't willing to yourself.

Jaxon, maybe someone should do what none of the others have and tell you what a True Christian should tell you.

Jaxon, God so loved you, that he gave his only begotten son to die a blood ransom death to pay for your homosexual sin.

He can give you peace, love and happiness, your transendental meditation can't even begin to compare. If you accept his sacrifice for you and give up your homosexual affirmity, give it to him and let Jesus deal with it and let him replace it with the love and potential for an equally yolked female sexual partner, you can be happy with beyond your dreams.

Jaxon Roberts , the only validation you're ever going to get is with Christ Jesus. If you do this you will not have to go in the direction you are now and if you don't stop and come clean with Christ, you're going to end up where you're headed. Sex sin is one of the hardest to escape from, especially when we have given ourselves and our souls over to it.

You don't have to answer me, but their once was a young man that was searching for Chritsianity, but the world showed you their own versions of it and you have unfairley made Christ, guilty by association. They all mean well Jaxon, but the Christianity God has planned for you would be the one, YOU would delight in using your talents in this way.

You say you are a spiritual person, and whether or not it seems silly or stupid, try stripping your heart and soul of all the garbage and preconceived notions you have about Christians,, Christianity, Empire, me and all the other things you have heard said about it. DUMP IT.

Then ask him yourself if what I am saying is real for you too.

Considering where you are going now, what have you got to lose?

try it, say it, pray it

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by Annee

There is no excuse for ignorance.

Then why are you making so many excuses for it anne. I have seen you make more excuses for the execution of infants behind the guise of selfish choice and your assumed moral right to assassinate a child still in the womb while you express your loathing of men as if they are the scum of the earth. Grandma has it all over you when it comes to your advice

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Stylez]

reply to post by Stylez


Dear Poser,

Your lack of understanding as to the true message of Jesus of Nazareth is quite clear. You like to twist the passages to suit your needs, your agenda if you will. You use his name like that will somehow justify your deep seeded hate and prejudice, but to those with eyes, this hypocracy is plain to see.

Since you dodged it in my thread, perhaps you will address it here:

Now, I have a question for you. What exactly is your 'agenda' here on ATS? I ask this because of what you said here:

Originally posted by Stylez
...one of my employers a Christian think tank funded by the late DR. Esty chair for the General Assemby of the Presbyterian Church in America commisioned a study on forums just like this one.

Why a study on us lowly ATS members and our silly opinions?? I'll let other members draw their own conclusions on that one...

reply to post by whaaa


Man can kill and chooses to do so. The Bible says God told the Hebrews to kill those people and take their land. Remember Moses was taught all the magic and secrets that any Pharoh would have access to. Eygpt had a ark of the covenant, this is most likly where Moses came up with the idea. Moses told all the people that God told him to tell the Hebrews what they were to do. They believed Moses because he could do a little magic cause some fear and there you are, the man in charge.

I repeat GOD CAN NOT KILL nor would he want man to do the same.

Now, I know this is just my thinking only and I don't mean to step on anybodies toes.


Peace and Godbless,

Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma.

I repeat GOD CAN NOT KILL nor would he want man to do the same.

And Granny I repeat, you need to study your Bible a little more. God KILLS!!

www.rationalchristianity.net...
wolfsden.wordpress.com...
part-1/
onegodfurther.com...

What say ye now! You just can't pick and chose from the Holy Word what is just convenient to fit into your cosmology.



[edit on 7-9-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by Annee

There is no excuse for ignorance.

Then why are you making so many excuses for it anne. I have seen you make more excuses for the execution of infants behind the guise of selfish choice and your assumed moral right to assassinate a child still in the womb while you express your loathing of men as if they are the scum of the earth. Grandma has it all over you when it comes to your advice

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Stylez]

You are off topic.

If you want to discuss abortion - - please find the correct thread.

reply to post by whaaa


whaa:

I have learned over the last 60 years not to take everything in the Bible as fact. Again, I have a one on one relationship with the Heavenly Father. He is full of mercy, love, and forgiveness not murder....The Bible may say GOD killed, I think someone mis quoted and it got written wrong because the men in power at that time in history (if you would do some research) uses the name of the Living God for power and control of the people.


God DOES NOT KILL


Peace
Grandma

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Stylez

 

Dear Poser,

. Your lack of understanding as to the true message of Jesus of Nazareth is quite clear. You like to twist the passages to suit your needs, your agenda if you will. You use his name like that will somehow justify your deep seeded hate and prejudice, but to those with eyes, this hypocracy is plain to see

Since you dodged it in my thread, perhaps you will address it here:

Now, I have a question for you. What exactly is your 'agenda' here on ATS? I ask this because of what you said here:

Originally posted by Stylez
...one of my employers a Christian think tank funded by the late DR. Esty chair for the General Assemby of the Presbyterian Church in America commisioned a study on forums just like this one.

Why a study on us lowly ATS members and our silly opinions?? I'll let other members draw their own conclusions on that one...

Talk about twsiting words to fit your agenda lol Jaxon Roberts READ MY POST! Then when you're done and you have cogitated the message there TELL ME where does it say THIS FORUM? It says "just like this one" meaning this kind.

Your lack of understanding as to the true message of Jesus of Nazareth is quite clear. You like to twist the passages to suit your needs, your agenda if you will.

Examples ?

You use his name like that will somehow justify your deep seeded hate and prejudice, but to those with eyes, this hypocracy is plain to see

"Somehow" will?

Care to share your somehow?

[edit on 8-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by Annee


You are off topic.

If you want to discuss abortion - - please find the correct thread.

I don't believe using your own examples of posts in ignorance is off topic in the context of a rebuttal to your post to grandma moreover, the one I posted that to was in response to yours and THAT one wasn't on topic either. It had nothing to do with the op

Why don't you let the Mods deal with that stuff anne and if you feel it's that much an impact on you, by all means, use the alert

[edit on 8-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by Annee


You are off topic.

If you want to discuss abortion - - please find the correct thread.

I don't believe using your own examples of posts in ignorance is off topic in the context of a rebuttal to your post to grandma moreover, the one I posted that to was in response to yours and THAT one wasn't on topic either. It had nothing to do with the op

Why don't you let the Mods deal with that stuff anne and if you feel it's that much an impact on you, by all means, use the alert

[edit on 8-9-2009 by Stylez]

I have no interest in speaking with you. I find you ridiculous.

Again - abortion is not the topic of this thread.

Originally posted by Annee
I find you ridiculous.

Again - abortion is not the topic of this thread.

Well I never said it was about that anne, I was talking about your advice to grandma using your posts on that subject as a comparison that's all but certainly don't want to make a thread on that issue much less a federal case out of it.

I have no interest in speaking with you.

Then can I ask why you did? Ok, suit yourself .

I find you ridiculous.

Ouch........ I thought you didn't like going off topic.

reply to post by Grandma

The Bible may say GOD killed, I think someone mis quoted and it got written wrong because the men in power at that time in history (if you would do some research) uses the name of the Living God for power and control of the people.

But surely not.....as the Bible is the inspired word of God. How could it possibly have been written wrongly? Oh, but now we are just misinterpreting the admonishments to kill and rape and whatever else. Which is it?

And there is the truth. The Bible has been written and rewritten by men with an agenda for control of the people and to satisfy their own sickly prejudices.

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by whaaa

 

whaa:

I have learned over the last 60 years not to take everything in the Bible as fact. Again, I have a one on one relationship with the Heavenly Father. He is full of mercy, love, and forgiveness not murder....The Bible may say GOD killed, I think someone mis quoted and it got written wrong because the men in power at that time in history (if you would do some research) uses the name of the Living God for power and control of the people.


God DOES NOT KILL


Peace
Grandma

I am totally with ya! The bible is full of stuff that ain't true. Stuff like miracles, angels, gods, virgin births, etc. I do not buy a word of it. Good for you for seeing how completely full of crap it is too.

Originally posted by oneclickaway

But surely not.....as the Bible is the inspired word of God. How could it possibly have been written wrongly? Oh, but now we are just misinterpreting the admonishments to kill and rape and whatever else. Which is it?

You're assuming it is wrong because of what it says about rape and murder? Or becaue if it were YOU that wrinte it, you could have done a better Job playing the Character of God?

If you don't mind showing me the scripture you refer to, as I believe I might know the ones, but if it isn't too much trouble, I'd like to confirm a theory I have about bibliobigots

The Bible has been written and rewritten by men with an agenda for control of the people and to satisfy their own sickly prejudices

That post has been used ad-nauseum ad-infinitum, to control Christians in an attempt to discredit their stable datum. If that statement were true, then the beatles should be in prison for making the song "helter skelter" to control Charles Manson