Illuminati and the Freemasons

Ok, I'm very confused here, and not sure what to think. So I need everyone's input.

Remember, this is a friend of mine who explained this to me. I'm merely asking for what you all know and think.

This is basically a summery of what I was told.

The Illuminati are good, and the Free Masons are bad.

As I was explained, the Illuminati were originally at war with the catholic church, they wanted truth, and they wanted technology advancement, etc.

The Illuminati needed refuge as the Catholics were out to destroy them. The Free Masons gave the Illuminati protection.

As the War between the Catholics and Illuminati came to an end, the Illuminati founded the U.S. and started "Christianity" or at-least a form of it. But the Illuminati also owed the Free Masons for their previous protection from the Catholics.

So the U.S. was meant to be the Illumination's dream of freedom and advancement, but as time went by, the Free Masons worked their way in and started taking over to the point we are at today. (banks etc,) And that there is a secret war between the Illuminati and the Free Masons right now. (Ron Paul Vs The Rockefeller's?) but of course there is greed.

So, I need a good argument full of knowledgeble people, please don't go spamming prejudice ideas everywhere, we need substance.

So is it possible that all the common beliefs about the Illuminati and Freemasons being bad even without a basic foundation for these beliefs be true? Or are the Free Masons the one's out there souly for greed and the Illuminati are the ones fighting for what they believe is right?

I'm not swinging either way here, as of now I am undecided on my views.

Seriously, no one is going to reply?

Originally posted by Scarcer
Seriously, no one is going to reply?

Well, this is a huge topic, and Im pretty sure you want real good answers, so you better hang in there...

Personally, Im unsure of who is who and who is on what side.

I do know the Illuminati was started in Bayern in 1776 I think it was, and some FreeMasons jumped onboard with Illu, and in that way had 'infitrators' in the Masonic structure..Etc..

All this ties in with CFR and CIA and the best way for you to figure out what the 'deal' is, you better check it out your self..

Illuminati News




[edit on 26/8/2009 by ChemBreather]

reply to post by Scarcer


that would make a great Dan Brown book. A great story. But sadly, there is no truth to any of it. Aside from the fact that the Catholic Church was against the Illuminati and the Freemasons. Freemasonry has never been at war with anyone. We were persecuted and had to hide out membership in the past. Hitler lumped us in with all the rest of the ones he wanted to kill. The Illuminati has been disbanded for a couple hundred years, and there is no evidence they re-emerged. You forgot all about the Knights Templar. You should check them out.

There is speculation with no proof that the Knights Templar helped form Freemasonry, but most masons will tell you there is not proof, or it never happened. I think it sounds logical and makes for an interesting story.
This is just my opinion, and I am sure others will have more info for you.

reply to post by Scarcer


In a nutshell, the Illuminati were what is known as a "clandestine" Masonic rite. Their primary purpose was to establish a liberal democracy in Bavaria that guaranteed separation of church and state, freedom of speech, equal rights for women, etc. The Catholic Church was opposed to those things, so there was indeed a struggle between them.

There was never a "war" between the Illuminati and the Masons, as most of the Illuminati members were also Masons as well. Many great minds of that time joined both the Illuminati and the Masons: Mozart, Goethe, etc.

The Illuminati were a little too political however. They were soon infiltrated by the Bavarian secret police. Many members were arrested while the remainder went into exile.

Denver Church,
You must understand, this is truly a secret society with some very talented and very accomplished individuals. We have elected you to join us because you do possess rare talents and enormous potential of the magnitude of other leading members in the exclusive illuminati society.

More on this later.


[edit on 26-8-2009 by Denver]

reply to post by Scarcer

You know, I have never heard this version of the Illuminati-Freemason conspiracy.

EDIT: You should read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" or "Born in Blood". Good books that kind of cover this.

[edit on 26-8-2009 by KSigMason]

Originally posted by Scarcer
Seriously, no one is going to reply?

Between 3:30 and 4:30 AM? No. Thanks. Some of us sleep, despite wild claims to the contrary.

The Bavarian Illuminati were neither good nor bad. They ceased to exist more than 200 years ago. Their founder, Adam Weishaupt, had issues with the Jesuits, but there was never "war". As Network Dude suggests, that would make a great Dan Brown book. Oh wait, it already is... Angels & Demons. But not a lick of truth to that book despite what the author claims. Nice fiction, fun read, but not something one should base their worldview on.

Freemasons, unlike the Illuminati, still exist. I guess you could call them bad guys if you think that giving free medical treatment or other charitable works is evil. Most people I know would think that's a good thing, however. So we tend to associate Masonry with good rather than bad.

George Washington & Benjamin Franklin, among a handful of other founding fathers, were Masons. Jefferson was not. None were members of the Illuminati as far as I know... that being a specifically european institution.

Yeah, these are all the kind of replies i was looking for.

Thankyou for all of your input.

Yeah, I had no idea what to think when i was told this, so that's why I came here to ask ATS.

In all reality. I did have trust issues with him anyway, so when ever he says something I gotta take it with a pinch of salt.

[edit on 26-8-2009 by Scarcer]

Found this quote earlier today. I thought it was interesting.

"It is not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in _this_ Country had, as Societies, endeavored to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of separation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder, or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a separation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned."

-George Washington

This was the first time i have ever came across this quote by George Washington. What are your opinions on it?

Network Dude:

I can agree with you on the opinion of the Knights Templar and Freemasonry. IMHO it seems more plausible of that of the Knights Templar connection then that of the supposed "guild masons" theory. Isn't is plausible that the Knights Templar used Masonry (operative/speculative) as a cover to hide themselves completely and utterly under a different name to ensure safety from persecution? I guess one can also speculate in doing so they made the penalties very "strict" in doing so because if one where to reveal information of these hidden Templars and where they were meeting it would mean death and destruction upon the lot of them.

anyway i could go on forever...and that is for another thread

the illuminati was created separate from freemasonry and not by masons. many members eventually became masons and it is possible some ideas crossed both organized between members, but there was never a joint organization of the two. nor would there need be. illuminati were bavarians who didn't like the law of the day. they were not hellbent on world domination.

the policies of the illuminati very well travelled to the US and elsewhere, but not under the veil of the same secret society that was formed by Adam W. And that is what George Washington was referring to in that letter.

Unfortunately, the world 'illuminati' has become synonymous with the NWO, one world government, etc. Just a way to simply all ideas into one organization that disbanded over 200 years ago. The real question is, what secret societies exist between that time and now, that we do not know about? People are focused on the Bavarian roots and not the others of this fruitful tree.

reply to post by LookingIntoIt


I agree it aggravates me when people associate the Illuminati with the NWO. The Illuminati where just a group of guys (great guys if i might add) that met to talk about philosophy, science and so forth without persecution. It is so obvious that the Illuminati's idea's are shown in America's ideology of free speech and freedom of thought and religion. That's what they were doing!

There are two different groups called the "Illuminati."

The first is the "Bavarian Illuminati" founded by Adam Weishaupt. He was a Jesuit who wanted to change what he believed was people's blind obedience to religion and the church. Although that sounds simple enough, he was sadly misguided in his quest. He became a Freemason and his ideas were injected into Freemasonry.

The second is simply called "The Illuminati" by conspiracy theorists as a nickname, like the "Bilderbergers." It is not a real group per se, just a loosely-connected network. These are people who believe that they are better than "the unwashed masses" because they possess special knowledge, and thus deserve special privileges. Most of this knowledge is "evil" and "crazy" stuff like trauma-based mind control, conjuring demons, time travel, psychic powers, divination, how to split the earth in half using electric beams and how to literally transform your body into a ball of light.

Then there are other groups that call themselves "The Illuminati" in some shape or another but this is just purely pretentious.

Well, at one point there was some animosity between the Illuminati and some masonic circles. After Baron von Knigge (Freemason) joined Weishaupt's organization, the Illuminati pratically went on a campaign to recruit as many masons as possible and to take over their lodges. One time they tried to do that was at the Convent of Wilhelmsbad. Of course they failed, but some masonic lodges did hop on the Illuminati banwagon, like the Theodore lodge to which Knigge belonged. Masons became aware of the plot and that's where some animosity began.




[edit on 22-9-2009 by Killuminatus]

The illuminati, freemasons, and the catholic religion are one. They work together secretly to pull off their plans, of creating a one world nation with absoloute power.

LoL I guess nobody really knows.
Masons are older than Illuminati that's for sure.
It seems many Illuminati were Masons in the first place. Maybe they were more radical and believed in fighting instead of hiding.
In French, Illuminati translates to Illumine which means crazy people.
It probably has something to do with enlightenment and all those "crazy" ideas like freedom of speech, democracy, etc...
I don't think any of these organizations are bad, it is all relative. If you fight against them, then they must surely be bad, and you good. If you know what I mean...