Report: Israel to freeze settlements in exchange for tougher Iran sanctions

Originally posted by mrmonsoonPeople can';t seem to realize, why should Israel give up "MORE" land when they get "NOTHING" in return

No, we can't understand indeed shy Israel should NOT return the land to its owners and in accordance with international mandate. It's beyond our comprehension. And, by the way, it's not "giving up", it's "giving back". See the difference?

reply to post by St Vaast


So let me get this right.....

Because Matt disagree's with you and , of course, has links to prove what he is saying...

"YOU" on your own are tring to decisde that he can't post, because "YOU" don't like the truth he posts????

"IF" that is the truth, you need to leave ATS as EVERYONE here is entitled to their opinion, especially when it is backed with Fact's/links.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Yeah, it will.......

Just as soon as every other country in the world that has acquired land by war gives it all back:

England
China
Russia
US
........

Are you seeing a pattern here.....

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Yeah, it will.......

Just as soon as every other country in the world that has acquired land by war gives it all back:

England
China
Russia
US
........

Are you seeing a pattern here.....

If you take THAT path in the argument, I'll say more power to Iran to help re-take what Israeli took.

You can't exist on an international mandate and violate same. Get it?

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Well you know, Kuwait is now a part of Iraq, Paris is a suburb of Berlin, Poland is Germany's agricultural hub...oh...I forgot...they weren't allowed to keep those spoils of war...only certain countries are allowed to do that...

So what exactly are the rules pertaining to who can landgrab and who can't? Is there like a book somewhere taht tells us who is allowed to do it and who isn't?

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I can agree that many nations stole land in the past and aren't giving back
we were a much more barbaric specie back then
we still are but not on a majority level

Israel stealing land is still happening TODAY
and it MUST STOP

People saying it must stop is what lacked in the past
Luckily some of us have evolved and need to speak out against this injustice

reply to post by Rook1545


The difference is that all the places you mention above were taken by force in acts of aggression.

Gaza and Judea/Samaria were taken in a defensive war when Israel was attacked by all of its neighbours and beat them. And they weren't taken from "Palestinians", they were taken from Israel's attackers - namely, Egypt in the case of Gaza and Jordan in the case of Judea/Samaria.

If you can't see the difference, then there is something slightly skewed with your moral compass.

[edit on 26-8-2009 by mattpryor]

reply to post by mattpryor


Of course you conveniently forget that at best Israel's attack on its neighbors can be characterized as preemptive if not overt aggression. They fired first shots (and many thereafter). Of course, they immediately lied about having been attacked by Egypt.


[edit on 26-8-2009 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by buddhasystem


Yes it can be characterized as such if you side with the narrative of the Jordanians, the Egyptians and the Syrians (and the Soviet Union that was arming and providing those countries with dodgy intelligence) and reject the secular Western narrative.

You can characterize anything however you like if you choose to take a particular side. I could paint the Nazis as the victims of Allied aggression in WWII if I chose to take their side. That doesn't mean I'd be correct.

However you cannot change the fact that Israel was surrounded on all sides by hateful regimes, armed to the teeth (thanks to the USSR), with hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks and fighter jets at Israel's front door, and leaders who were openly, vociferously calling for Israel's destruction.

Nor can you change the fact that Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran and stopped Israel's oil supply. Or the fact that Syria was shelling Israeli villages from the Golan Heights. Or that there were no less than 37 state-sponsored terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians in the first four months of 1967.

How much more aggression should Israelis have put up with before fighting back? Or would your sense of moral outrage be assuaged if Israel had just not bothered to fight back at all?

If you choose to accept the narrative of the aggressors and failed tyrants and not that of the western democracy that was under attack from all sides - that's your choice.

I don't.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Oh, you mean when Egypt had it's full army in the desert ready to attack?

Or do you mean that egypt/syria/Jordan had all their tanks and planes out ready for an attack.

Please ready history.

It was a simple move to realize that Israel was going to be attacked by several of it's neighbors..... again.

How dare Israel not just sit still and allow their neighbors to slaughter them.

Anyone with one functional brain cell would know the only thing to do is attack your enemies before they can attack you.
(especially when you see their entire army/air-force and tank forces out and ready to attack you.)

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones

Report: Israel to freeze settlements in exchange for tougher Iran sanctions

Looks like the article changed, yet left some of the old text. Here is a quote and title from the updated article:

Germany: Israel must prepare to compromise for peace

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Wednesday that Israel must be prepared to compromise for a two-state solution, a day before her scheduled meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Berlin

Haaretz and YNet tend to sensationalize or puppet Obama's/U.S. words, so I've learned to never take their account of the U.S. position on matters in the middle east.

just as the threats of war and dates for them have come and gone since 2002 at the least so too will this one come and go. it wont happen.

There will be no war with Iran because it is not going to incite any war, they have not don so for hundreds of years. US and Israel have no way to justify a war, so it aint gonna happen.

Now go buy some books on why the war is ready to kick off, and in another year or so (maybe three months) get ready for another release of books saying th same thing ;-)

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by mrmonsoonPeople can';t seem to realize, why should Israel give up "MORE" land when they get "NOTHING" in return

No, we can't understand indeed shy Israel should NOT return the land to its owners and in accordance with international mandate. It's beyond our comprehension. And, by the way, it's not "giving up", it's "giving back". See the difference?

Historical data suggests these lands were the taken by Isreal in the course of war, initiated by Arabs and Egyptians and why is anyone insisting they give it to terrorists? The Palestinians are without a homeland because their brethren hung them out to dry when they decided to wipe Isreal off the map, they lost that battle , twice and IMHO do not deserve anything. If this scenario played out today in say the continental US after the war the land would still belong the US not the military faction trying to take it over.

Isreal has stayed within the borders set by the UN in 1967 with the exception of land gains in War, even then they have they have given that back.

Originally posted by habfan1968
The Palestinians are without a homeland because their brethren hung them out to dry when they decided to wipe Isreal off the map, they lost that battle , twice and IMHO do not deserve anything.

There is a lot of suspect stuff in your post, but this one take the cake. So you suggest that the US should round up all German Americans and send them to the North Pole to dry out, in the wake of WWII? Further, should Russia and the US still be occupying Germany since it was the aggressor? What say you?

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Oh, you mean when Egypt had it's full army in the desert ready to attack?

Or do you mean that egypt/syria/Jordan had all their tanks and planes out ready for an attack.

Please ready history.

It was a simple move to realize that Israel was going to be attacked by several of it's neighbors..... again.

How dare Israel not just sit still and allow their neighbors to slaughter them.

Anyone with one functional brain cell would know the only thing to do is attack your enemies before they can attack you.
(especially when you see their entire army/air-force and tank forces out and ready to attack you.)

Not only that they announced they were ready to war with Isreal. I'm just gonna poke you a little, well maybe a little more, how a bout a little more WHACK ouch why are you hitting me I didn't do anything to you.

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Oh, you mean when Egypt had it's full army in the desert ready to attack?

Or do you mean that egypt/syria/Jordan had all their tanks and planes out ready for an attack.

Please ready history.

It was a simple move to realize that Israel was going to be attacked by several of it's neighbors..... again.

How dare Israel not just sit still and allow their neighbors to slaughter them.

Anyone with one functional brain cell would know the only thing to do is attack your enemies before they can attack you.
(especially when you see their entire army/air-force and tank forces out and ready to attack you.)

Not only that they announced they were ready to war with Isreal. I'm just gonna poke you a little, well maybe a little more, how a bout a little more WHACK ouch why are you hitting me I didn't do anything to you.

You mean kind of like EXACTLY what Israel is doing now with Iran? You people and your double standards. When one country does it to Israel it deserves what it gets. When Israel does it, it is standing up for itself.

Pick a set of rules and stick to it. It is frustrating to no end to try and have any kind of discussion with you when all you see is sunshine and unicorns in Israel, and fiery hell demons sent to destroy everything beautiful in the world across the borders.

Read up on what happened in the 6 day war. Israel admitted to taking land that was part of the demilitarized zone. They intentionally goaded them into firing on them. Egypt closed off the Straits of Tiran, which as we have seen lately seems to be well within their rights. If the US can blockade waterways thousands of miles away, why can't Egypt do it right off thier coastline?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by habfan1968
The Palestinians are without a homeland because their brethren hung them out to dry when they decided to wipe Isreal off the map, they lost that battle , twice and IMHO do not deserve anything.

There is a lot of suspect stuff in your post, but this one take the cake. So you suggest that the US should round up all German Americans and send them to the North Pole to dry out, in the wake of WWII? Further, should Russia and the US still be occupying Germany since it was the aggressor? What say you?

I don't see how it is suspect stuff
www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm


I would say it would be very hard to do, but if the Allied forces decided to do something like that they would be within their right to do so. Are these German Americans terrorizing the general populace ? If they are then yes, send them away.

reply to post by Rook1545


Really????

Please enlighten me.

Please show me a valid link or two that shows Israel's full army out in battle formation.
Please show me a valid link or two that shows Israel's full air-force is out/fueled and load with weapons
Please show me a valid link or two that shows Israel's full tank force is fueled/loaded and in the desert ready to attack.

We won't discuss the issues of getting men and tanks into Iran in an number.

Seems to me, that they are nothing a like, counter to what you propose.

Originally posted by Rook1545
You people and your double standards. When one country does it to Israel it deserves what it gets. When Israel does it, it is standing up for itself.

Pick a set of rules and stick to it. It is frustrating to no end to try and have any kind of discussion with you when all you see is sunshine and unicorns in Israel, and fiery hell demons sent to destroy everything beautiful in the world across the borders.

Oh dear god!!!

I've never seen a truer statement in a super long time!

If I didn't love the current signature I have so much I would use your statement above as my signature

Yes, this is the highest form of double standards on the planet, but most probably universe!

Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Oh, you mean when Egypt had it's full army in the desert ready to attack?

Or do you mean that egypt/syria/Jordan had all their tanks and planes out ready for an attack.

Please ready history.

It was a simple move to realize that Israel was going to be attacked by several of it's neighbors..... again.

How dare Israel not just sit still and allow their neighbors to slaughter them.

Anyone with one functional brain cell would know the only thing to do is attack your enemies before they can attack you.
(especially when you see their entire army/air-force and tank forces out and ready to attack you.)

Not only that they announced they were ready to war with Isreal. I'm just gonna poke you a little, well maybe a little more, how a bout a little more WHACK ouch why are you hitting me I didn't do anything to you.

You mean kind of like EXACTLY what Israel is doing now with Iran? You people and your double standards. When one country does it to Israel it deserves what it gets. When Israel does it, it is standing up for itself.

Pick a set of rules and stick to it. It is frustrating to no end to try and have any kind of discussion with you when all you see is sunshine and unicorns in Israel, and fiery hell demons sent to destroy everything beautiful in the world across the borders.

Read up on what happened in the 6 day war. Israel admitted to taking land that was part of the demilitarized zone. They intentionally goaded them into firing on them. Egypt closed off the Straits of Tiran, which as we have seen lately seems to be well within their rights. If the US can blockade waterways thousands of miles away, why can't Egypt do it right off thier coastline?

That is the same war initiated by the Egyptians, Jordanians and the Syrians right? Isreals' borders were already loaded up with enemies at that point.