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Israel's Super-Thermite Lab

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posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit
There are several very obvious questions that remain unanswered.

Regarding the molten metal reported in the WTC debris pile more than three weeks later, NIST says: "The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing."


There will always be a lot of unanswered questions. A variety of materials were rapidly mixed with each other under extraordinary circumstances at extreme temperatures. Cominations that have never been analyzed.

I read somewhere that the flowing slag was not necessarily just iron. Molten aluminum, glass, plastics, among other things. Aluminum was very common in the buildings, melts at a lower temperature and can be mistaken for iron in some temperature ranges.

Mike



[edit on 30-8-2009 by mmiichael]




posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 

This idea of a thermite "paint"is utter BS. Insufficient mass. You can't cut an half-inch thick piece of steel with a paper-thin coating of a thermite material - and even if you call it nano-thermite - mass is mass.

One question no one seems to answer. IF, there was a "nano-paint-type-thermite", and it was ignited, then how in hell would you have samples left over? If it's that effective, then complete oxidation would have occurred in seconds. No samples left.

Tell me what item, element, or combination can heat steel to 2500*F, and yet only be a fraction of the mass of the material melted? That's a lot of heat, and it's gotta be maintained.

You ask my credentials? Like on this thread? I could tell you that I am currently in the process of successfully transmutating elements at ambient temperature. But I could be lying.

I could tell you that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a damn lie, and that we not only broke it twice, but had a large forensic laboratory certify our results, and they are under a strict non-disclosure agreement. But I could be lying about that too.

I could tell you I have in my possession the world's first perfect electret, made by precurssor engineering carbon nanotubes (long before the work of Dr. Deborah Chung) using heat and high voltage to polarize all the electrons, enabling this electret to constantly put out a steady voltage for years, after being shorted out hundreds and hundreds of times. But I could be lying.

I could believe in the Easter Bunny before I could believe in a nano-sulpher/oxygen/oxidizer of insufficient mass.

It would have been cheaper and easier to use acetylene torches.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by bsbray11
 

This idea of a thermite "paint"is utter BS. Insufficient mass. You can't cut an half-inch thick piece of steel with a paper-thin coating of a thermite material - and even if you call it nano-thermite - mass is mass.

It would have been cheaper and easier to use acetylene torches.


Quite true, and as you say mass is mass, however there were crews working for weeks before 9/11, in addition:

quote
The main chemical reaction in thermate is the same as in thermite: an aluminothermic reaction between powdered aluminum and a metal oxide. In addition to thermite, thermate also contains sulfur and sometimes barium nitrate, both of which increase its thermal effect, create flame in burning, and significantly reduce the ignition temperature. Various mixtures of these compounds can be called thermate, but, to avoid confusion with Thermate-TH3, one can refer to them as thermite variants or analogs. The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder (such as PBAN). As both thermite and thermate are notoriously difficult to ignite, initiating the reaction normally requires trained human supervision and sometimes persistent effort.

Because thermate burns at higher temperatures than ordinary thermite, it has useful military applications in cutting through tank armor or other hardened military vehicles or bunkers. As with thermite, thermate's ability to burn without an external supply of oxygen renders it useful for underwater demolition.
end quote


So how long have the military researched cutting steel with explosives?


quote
Accession Number : AD0479244

Title : STEEL CUTTING WITH HIGH-EXPLOSIVE CHARGES

Descriptive Note : Final rept. May 1962-May 1965

Corporate Author : ARMY ENGINEER RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT LABS FORT BELVOIR VA

Personal Author(s) : Dennis, James A.

Handle / proxy Url : handle.dtic.mil... Check NTIS Availability...

Report Date : DEC 1965

Pagination or Media Count : 179

Abstract : New techniques for explosive demolition of structural steel shapes were developed and evaluated in connection with the examination of current U. S. Army methods of steel cutting with high-explosive charges. The report concludes: (1) both charge width and charge thickness have significant effects on the steel-cutting efficiency of contact explosive charges; (2) the point of charge initiation does not significantly affect the shattering power of contact explosive charges on steel; (3) a 3:1 ratio of charge width to charge thickness is optimum for contact explosive charges calculated to cut structural steel in thicknesses of 3 inches or less; (4) the formula C sub T = 1/2 S sub T C sub W = 3 C sub T is more accurate and efficient than the U. S. Army formula P = 3/8A/1. 34 for calculation of contact charges of Composition C-4, paste, and EL506A-5 Detasheet explosives to cut structural steel; (5) composition C-4, paste, and EL506A-5 Detasheet explosives were equally effective as contact charges for cutting structural steel; because of its variable density, paste explosive was less effective than Composition C-4 explosive for cutting round steel bars.

Descriptors : *STEEL, *CUTTING, BEAMS(STRUCTURAL), DEMOLITION, EXPLOSIVE CHARGES, RODS, SHAPED CHARGES, STRUCTURES, EXPLOSIVES
end quote



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit

however there were crews working for weeks before 9/11, in addition:

quote

Title : STEEL CUTTING WITH HIGH-EXPLOSIVE CHARGES

[...]

The report concludes: (1) both charge width and charge thickness have significant effects on the steel-cutting efficiency of contact explosive charges; (2) the point of charge initiation does not significantly affect the shattering power of contact explosive charges on steel; (3) a 3:1 ratio of charge width to charge thickness is optimum for contact explosive charges calculated to cut structural steel in thicknesses of 3 inches or less;



The suggestion of thermitic material being used as an explosivee originated with Jones's examination of millimeter thin red chips found in the debris. Jones's results are in serious doubt. And there were no characteristics of sequenced explosions observed. As many note, even if possible as an explosive agent, the required amounts of thermitic material would be many tons somehow kept in direct contact with steel the mass ratio of 3:1. Jones' ultra-thin layer would do little more than warm the steel for a few seconds.

The consensus outside conspiracy circles is Jones has tested red oxide primer paint and retroengineered his results to the thermite claim. The actual paint product has been identified.

You will hear claims to the contrary, but that is the straight goods.


Mike





[edit on 31-8-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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I just wanted to theorize for a moment. Since it was David Rockefeller who pretty much paid for the towers to be built in '67, and we assume that he is one of the "elite" of the NWO,who is pulling strings on global level. Could it be that the towers were prepped for destruction before the first tenants ever arrived in '70. is it possible that this was in the works as early as 1967? If the NWO is as nefarious and methodical as many believe I can see how this may have been possible. How else would explosive packages be put in place if not before the building were even occupied? Is this a little to far fetched?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by jameslewin
Since it was David Rockefeller who pretty much paid for the towers to be built in '67, and we assume that he is one of the "elite" of the NWO,who is pulling strings on global level. Could it be that the towers were prepped for destruction before the first tenants ever arrived in '70. is it possible that this was in the works as early as 1967? If the NWO is as nefarious and methodical as many believe I can see how this may have been possible. How else would explosive packages be put in place if not before the building were even occupied? Is this a little to far fetched?


It's Grand Conspiracy Theory that doesn't have a basis in real history.

As the WTC complex is about the most expensive real estate endeavour ever, the possibility of it being designed for self-destruct is virtually nil.

The false-flag motivator is usually way overstated. Yes the US does these kind of things to justify their internationalism, but they don't need to shoot off their own foot to get attention.

After 8 years of accumulating evidence and testimony we have a pretty clear picture of what happened and why. The collective Muslim world decided they want a confrontation with the West on their home turf.

Attacking the WTC, the Pentagon, the White House highly symbolic US power centres, was a clear unambiguous message that they mean war. The US responded to their invitiation by going into Afghanistan and Iraq.

Maybe not the best moves in hindsight, but that's what they did.

The drama will continue to play itself out.


Mike



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by jameslewin
 


Check out this thread jameslewin...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
That may not be too far off the mark.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I just want to say that your post was outstanding. My second cousin (yes we are Jews) worked at Cantor and she was murdered on 9/11. No one warned her not to come into work that day, I guess she missed her super secret Mossad tweet that morning, opps... I forgot... we didn't have Twitter back then.


When all else fails, blame the Jews. That seems like the solution to every conspiracy in the world.

Edit to Add:

This BS about Jews not coming to work that day is ridiculous. The first plane hit before 9:00am. Most people get to work around 9, and its not like there was any "attendance sheet" ever produced to show who got to work and who didn't. Thousands of people who arrived before the first plane hit left both buildings when the expolsion happened. Those people who had not arrived yet didn't go into a burning building to check in to make sure everyone knew they came to work that day.

Every first responder in the city started towards the WTC when the first plane hit with lights and sirens. As you may expect, traffic became unbareable. The subways stopped shortly after the first plane hit, all those commuters never got to work that day.

Some body who actually believes that Jews didn't show up at work on 9/11 please show me one shread of proof to back up that claim. One document which shows who came to work and who didn't would be fine.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by finemanm]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by finemanm
Somebody who actually believes that Jews didn't show up at work on 9/11 please show me one shread of proof to back up that claim. One document which shows who came to work and who didn't would be fine.


This first showed up on some Middle East pseudonews report. The pathetic vultures who run their pseudonews web site hate fests picked up on it.

So of course conspiracy theory Gospel now.


Mike



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by jameslewin

The false-flag motivator is usually way overstated. Yes the US does these kind of things to justify their internationalism, but they don't need to shoot off their own foot to get attention.

After 8 years of accumulating evidence and testimony we have a pretty clear picture of what happened and why. The collective Muslim world decided they want a confrontation with the West on their home turf.

The drama will continue to play itself out.

Mike


I would like to ask some common sense questions:

How can a pilot who had difficulty flying a single engine Cessna place a 757 so neatly into the side of of the Pentagon that he didn't even mess up their lawn?
thewebfairy.com...

How can a similar 757 crash into the ground and vanish? Completely disappear unlike any plane crash before or since?
landofthefreeish.com...

How does a 47 story building NOT hit by a plane fall so beautifully into it's own footprint yet buildings around it (also hit by debris) do not?
www.wtc7.net...

Rather than looking for the most extreme answers one should ask the question "Is the official story believable?" if not then it is safe to assume you are not being told the truth.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit
I would like to ask some common sense questions:

How can a pilot who had difficulty flying a single engine Cessna place a 757 so neatly into the side of of the Pentagon that he didn't even mess up their lawn?

He may have have had difficulties flying a plane in training but did graduated with a pilot's license. There have been exaggerations of the difficulties of flying an airliner. The hard parts are landing, takeoff, and adverse weather conditions. During WWII Japanes teenage boys were trained on the ground with stick simulations and managed to fly their kamikaze planes into much smaller moving enemy ships.



How can a similar 757 crash into the ground and vanish? Completely disappear unlike any plane crash before or since?


This is an attempted distortion. The plane piled up inside the Pentagon building itself. Not a lot of pictures released for obvious security reasons, but there are ones of the wreckage and even dead bodies.



How does a 47 story building NOT hit by a plane fall so beautifully into it's own footprint yet buildings around it (also hit by debris) do not?


This is another attempted distortion. Though gravity made most of the building collapse directly downward, there was considerable debris spread.



Rather than looking for the most extreme answers one should ask the question "Is the official story believable?" if not then it is safe to assume you are not being told the truth.


I often point to this site

www.debunking911.com...


It's a good starting point for undoing the vast amount of misinformation on the Net propagated by Truther sites and videos. While there are many outstanding questions about the US government's prior knowledge of the 9/11 event and coverups, we have the details of the plane crashes and the damage caused.


Mike



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by prof-rabbit
Quite true, and as you say mass is mass, however there were crews working for weeks before 9/11, in addition:


Yes, there were renovations being done, including a new lighting system being installed in the mall between the towers. I was one of the designers of those lights. We were supposed to be there for the unveiling on Sept. 18th, including a breakfast meeting at the Top of the World restaurant at 9:00 AM.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by finemanm
reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I just want to say that your post was outstanding. My second cousin (yes we are Jews) worked at Cantor and she was murdered on 9/11. No one warned her not to come into work that day, I guess she missed her super secret Mossad tweet that morning, opps... I forgot... we didn't have Twitter back then.


Wow. How insensitive can you be to be making jokes about your own cousin's death?


When all else fails, blame the Jews. That seems like the solution to every conspiracy in the world.


Who said anything about "Jews"? Oh, I didn't know that Zionist meant Jew?


Some body who actually believes that Jews didn't show up at work on 9/11 please show me one shread of proof to back up that claim. One document which shows who came to work and who didn't would be fine.


The claim is NOT that no Jews showed up to work that day. The claim (and actual reality) is this:


Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.


whatreallyhappened.com...

It's a proven fact that at least 2 people were warned of the attacks 2 hours prior.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by Nutter]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Nutter
The claim is NOT that no Jews showed up to work that day. The claim (and actual reality) is this:


Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.


whatreallyhappened.com...

It's a proven fact that at least 2 people were warned of the attacks 2 hours prior.



Great, another Truther site distorting information.

Proven fact. Maybe expand the context. New York time the message would have been received aout 6:45 AM, but afternoon in Israel. The anonymous message was received by two workers in offices in Israel. It did not say anything about where or how something would happen, and it contained what is described as an 'anti-semitic' slur. Immediately after the attacks Israeli authorities and FBI were notified by the company CEO.

Sounds much more like something mean-spirited than a warning.


M



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Bollyn is a well known lunatic fringe anti-Jewish propagandist who invents his stories. He also claim Obama is controlled by Zionists.

The link shows no comprehension of what thermite is or how it is manufactured. It is used for precison heating applications and is not effective as an explosive.'s

On the claimed nanothermite found by Steven Jones et al in WTC debris, it has been shown to actually be red primer paint.

It should be noted those pictures used are taken from another website without acknowledgement.

The salivating Usual Suspects will be on this thread any minute with their fingers hovering over the Z key.

For some it's the smell of blood, for others it's the world Israel.

M






If Obama is not controlled by the Zionists then he will be able to fix the middle east problem. It is as simple as that, but most people seem to think it is a much more complicated relationship. Obama already said he has full support for Israel. I think most Americans fell to the same propaganda used by Bush, this one a little softer like Clinton but same policies. 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me'. If Obama says that, man I would be laughing.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
If Obama is not controlled by the Zionists then he will be able to fix the middle east problem. It is as simple as that, but most people seem to think it is a much more complicated relationship.



What exactly is the Middle East problem? I was under the impression oil pipeline routes were a primary concern in American foreign policy.

You have a reliable source for your information? Or is it just supposition on your part?


M



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by prof-rabbit
I would like to ask some common sense questions:

How can a pilot who had difficulty flying a single engine Cessna place a 757 so neatly into the side of of the Pentagon that he didn't even mess up their lawn?

He may have have had difficulties flying a plane in training but did graduated with a pilot's license. There have been exaggerations of the difficulties of flying an airliner. The hard parts are landing, takeoff, and adverse weather conditions. During WWII Japanes teenage boys were trained on the ground with stick simulations and managed to fly their kamikaze planes into much smaller moving enemy ships.


A 757 is a large plane designed to cruise in a straight line. A fighter is designed to maneuver and turn on a dime. Comparing the two, and the training involved, doesn't make sense, IMO.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
A 757 is a large plane designed to cruise in a straight line. A fighter is designed to maneuver and turn on a dime. Comparing the two, and the training involved, doesn't make sense, IMO.


Any plane has to be able turn in mid-air. It is a basic manouevre and particulalry needed when they have to circle an airport waiting for a runway.

The Pentagon is a pretty large and unmistakable target. The pilot had trained to spot it. Even then he was off his approach, came in too low and knocked down lampposts.


M



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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In order to hit the Pentagon with a 757, you had a five story clearance (or whatever height it was). To hit this with a 757 without over-shooting or hitting the ground is amazing enough for an experienced pilot, considering all of the real factors that influence flight especially at such a low altitude.

I've heard the stories of light poles getting knocked over. From the angle of whatever was in the official videos released, I'll have to call BS on that one. A 757 skimming 15' (I assume that's the height of a lightpole) above the ground several hundred meters until hitting the Pentagon? Not realistic.

I suppose the pilot must of known the exact altitude to even out at after diving towards the ground to obtain such a 15' vertical ground clearance from the distance of the light poles to the Pentagon, right? If anything else, it was a lucky guess. Too lucky.

There were way too many lucky coincidences on that day. Terrorist attacks on the very day of anti-terror drills? 3/3 planes aiming for a target hitting their exact target (to be fair, twin towers were easy targets). Another plane going down still without an official explanation. Highly exaggerated death count (20,000+) thrown around the media right after the first attacks...

[edit on 1-9-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Yes pipelines and Palestine, most fight for that purpose. Every so called terrorist you talk to they will mention Palestine. If America is so concerned about terrorism that it has spent over trillion dollars in two wars, then shouldn't it act more fairly between the current nation of Israel and the future nation of Palestine? I mean they can't even stop the Israelis from expanding their illegal settlements.

Iff America is so deeply influenced by Israel, not vice versa one can make the assumption that the Zionist regime in Israel is controlling Obama.



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