Originally posted by warrenb


All sides are playing every angle possible to maximize profit from whatever outcome. The public is caught in the middle.

I don't know if you are trying to disagree with me so excuse me if this comes off the wrong way, but this is exactly what I said in my post. Both sides of the debate are being backed by corporate/political interests.

In other words, I agree 100%.

Originally posted by warrenb
There are actual, real, down to earth, sane, intelligent people who are against the health care reform simply because the "new system" benefits the insurance and health industry more than the current and would exclude more people.

Yes, just as there are sane, intelligent people who are for the health care reform simply because they genuinely want a more egalitarian system that lends a helping hand to those in need, and don't mind taking a little out of their pocketbooks to accomplish that.

I used to feel the same way about this plan as you do, that it will aid the criminal insurance companies more than it will hurt them. However, seeing how actively the major insurance and pharmaceutical companies are fighting against this bill has convinced me that it will be change for the better. They don't want this bill to pass for a reason.

Originally posted by sos37


So again, what's the problem? Democrats complain when Republicans speak up, Republicans complain when Democrats speak up.

One party is NOT BETTER than the other. They both equally SUCK.

I never said there was a problem...?

I support everyone's right to protest. I supported the Tea Partiers right to protest, I support the Republicans' right to protest against health care, and I support the Democrats' right to protest for health care.

The only thing I have a 'problem' with is when somebody has a problem with other people protesting simply because they are on the other side of the debate. It shows hypocrisy, dishonor and genuine un-American-ness.

Please don't try to peg me down with your blanket view of liberals and democrats, because I won't fit in with either. Neither will 99% of the rest of the country, for that matter.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Yes, just as there are sane, intelligent people who are for the health care reform simply because they genuinely want a more egalitarian system that lends a helping hand to those in need, and don't mind taking a little out of their pocketbooks to accomplish that.

I agree with you. The problem is that the powers that be (TPTB) are making this into an "us" and "them" issue and are both throwing out lies about both sides without even knowing the truth of what is contained in the health bill itself.

I'm all for free health care but the bill in it's current form is not beneficial to anyone except the police state and the medical and insurance industry.

As it is, the bills floating around should not be passed simply because it's free health care. And it's not really free if you're paying X amount for it out of your paycheck. I understand the principal of spreading out the cost, yada yada.

And it's great that many people support the bill, however they appear to have no clue as to what exactly that free health care means at the end of the day. There are dozens of threads already on ATS with links and discussions of the actual bills with quotes from parts of the bills that show that there is alot more to this free health care than most people think.

Besides a few bucks a month for free health care, are you willing to let the state take your children away if they dont have shots or put them in quarantine? And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Read the bill, actually read the damn bill. Don't listen to all the propaganda from either side. Inform YOURSELF.

I wouldn't vote for it in a million years.

It's not free! Nothing is free! Obama said this back before he became president, that he wanted to have universal health care, but it would take money!

Guess what, though? It's the right thing to do.

When you have a disease, which is not your fault, and a company will not take you in because they're afraid you'll get sick and cost them money, how is that helping people?

How is it helping a family who's only able to pay so much into health care, that if they get sick, the insurance company will refuse to pay for the surgery?

Really, I'm the kind of person that believes in helping everybody. I know there are many on here who wouldn't want that, that don't want to pay, that they are afraid their money will be used for the wrong reasons by people who are taking advantage of the system.

But if you guys are waiting for the perfect system, you're never going to find one. Every plan has its problems.

Universal health care, though, is a good solution.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Hah, please...

Fear goes a long way, and when you have insurance lobbyists promising you that if Obama does pass the health care, grandma will die by death panels, and this country will become Marxist, it's sad...

No, you know what? It's not sad, it's pathetic...

To say that every country that has universal health care is Marxist or socialist is an insult.

It's propaganda, and you guys who believe Obama is trying to lead us into a hole? You're wrong.

You're being led by corporations, companies, and individuals who want to keep their money.

Universal health care is not the enemy here.

You might want to check on who exactly is pushing for and funding the massive propaganda err advertising blitz the country is about to be faced with. You my friend are being led by corporations, companies, and individuals who want to keep YOUR and all of OUR money.

Government IS the ENEMY here.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Exactly.

So, it's alright for the conservatives to rant and complain, but when the Democrats stand up for their views, it's all bad.

Hypocrites...

Hypocrites calling people hypocrites.

And during the last administration, even Pelosi was saying she was proud to be a dissenter. Now, of course, dissent is "evil".

Originally posted by centurion1211

Hypocrites calling people hypocrites.

Anyone who dogmatically supports, works for, runs for, is associated with ANY political party at the expense of another sets themselves up by definition to being a hypocrite.

Not only do they all operate in a similar fashion and serve the same masters ...

But inevitably those you support will do a 180 on you and bite your ideals in the bottom.

No one who plays this game is clean.

And yes btw I think Acorn are crooks, and yes I have serious apprehensions about the various hc bills, but ...

EVERYONE has the right to voice their opinion either way for whatever reason, be it their conscience or because they are serving their party masters.

So if some want to carry guns fine, you want to scream Nazi at your rep. fine, and if you want to drive around the country and support the bill that is also fine.

And no one needs to be a hypocrite.

Can I get paid to participate in these too?

Cool, sign me up!