Warning: This post may be hazardous to your belief-systems

Note: Everything said is personal viewpoint only, with the intent of gathering other peoples viewpoints, variations and experiences

As a long-time meditator and astral-traveller (out-of-body-travel), I´d like to report that there is a difference between what I call "The Astral Circus" and Spiritual Realms. This difference does not seem to be apparent to the majority of people dabbling in the metaphysical.

Much of paranormal and "new age" literature, teaching and products are not actually accessing spiritual realms but astral-realms and then labelling their product or teaching "spiritual". The Astral-Circus however, is a few frequency-levels lower/slower than spiritual realms. Astral-Realms are on the same "wavelength" as the physical earth, some of them are even lower. Spiritual Realms are "higher" or "less dense".

Those who access astral- and lower-astral-realms for their "spirituality" and "supernatural abilities" feature an array of gimmicky products, self-importance, questionable methods, and stuff that lacks any demonstratable credibility. Astral-ism is usually more a form of entertainment than true dedication to the spiritual. About 99% of "esoteric fairs" with their psychich readers, pseudo-divination, mediumship, ouija boards, UFO-Cults, are easily recongizable as deriving either from con-manship or astral-realms.

A few examples:

* Psychic abilities are not actually abilities of oneself but granted by "the field", "the universe", "the impersonal". But they can also be staged by discarnate-entities in the astral-fields. Astral-fields are full of disembodied tricksters who`s intent is to fool humans and even siphon off energy. Any psychic who takes personal credit for his supernatural abilities is either a fraud or doing so by the power of astral-tricksters.

* Divination, such as asking a pendulum questions, can be done astrally or spiritually. When done spiritually, it is understood that the asking-session must be dedicated to the "most high", "the highest truth", "for the good of humanity" or "God". Failing to do so, will quickly attract astral-tricksters who manipulate the answers. So one would for example say: "In the name of the highest good, do I have permission to ask this question?". Spirituality includes a sense of humility never found in astral-practice. It is also understood that the mind/ego are inherently biased, and an effort is made to clear the mind of all bias/opinion before asking a question. Otherwise the answers will be distorted and merely confirming ones own beliefs. It is best not to ask any questions concerning oneself unless the answers can be confirmed by other people present. Spiritual Practice prefers validation by numerous sources. Astral-practice does not care whether something is verified or not. It is also understood that one cannot ask questions about the future, because the future is not fixed, but unfolding and changing direction from moment to moment. The very act of prophecy can change the outcome (can make it happen or prevent it from happening). Almost ALL fortune tellers and almost ALL prophets, with very few exceptions, are either frauds or accessing the astral rather than the spiritual.

* The veneer of exclusivity, specialness or superiority is usually astrally-based. The "Indigo Children" phenomenon is an astral-phenomenon in my opinion, not a spiritual one. When someone posts that he is in contact with "The Ascended Masters of the Ashtar Command who will pick us all up in UFOs soon", he is dealing with astral-manipulation and/or a delusional belief-system.

* Some are skilled in the art of using astral-energy to induce a wide variety of altered states, states of hypnotic trance, euphoria and being "spaced-out". They then sell these abilities at a very steep price and with the label of them being "spiritual". Many things sold at an exaggerated price and involving various "levels of initiation" and "secret ancient mysteries" are either scams or products of using astral-energy.

* Entities on astral-realms have very little energy of their own. They do not have the power to harm you. With one exception: When you radiate fear or hatred. Radiating fear opens your chakra-portals to the astral-fields and gives that which is feared some amount of power over you. Ghost-Hauntings are either attempts by astral-entities to induce fear, or residual energy of a deceased spirit stuck in the astral-afterlife.

* Another tell-tale sign of one who is being used by astral-forces is if he does not know much about anything else (sports, cultures, literature, languages, world events, movies, music, etc.) than his bizzare teachings, does not know much about anything else than his oddball cult and then calls himself "enlightened", "superiour" or "in the know".

* Yet another tell-tale sign of frauds and astrals are exaggerated promises of what can be attained. "Get rich quick!", "Cosmic Consciousness in 5 days", "Ultimate Power", and so forth. Sadly, millions of people still fall for this nonsense every day.

Spiritual states can be discerned by how one feels and what one experiences after dedication to spiritual principles and practices such as meditation, concentration, contemplation, prayer, kindness, heightening ones "vibe", shifting ones belief-systems, energy-therapy, lucid dreaming, emotional work, zen, etc. Spirituality is usually straightforward (non-mysterious), simple, non-exclusive, available for free or with workshops/books/CDs at a reasonable price, and usually does not require sales-pitches, sales-ploys, pushing-to-buy or "sign up".

Spiritualities Focus is on gradual and patient self-improvement and relief of the worlds suffering.

Astral-teachings are focussed on the immediate gratification of desperate neediness.

After the body dies, one finds oneself on either the astral-plane or a spiritual-realm. This is dependent on ones state of energy.

are you psychic?

just a simple question

Originally posted by platipus
are you psychic?

just a simple question

As hinted at in the OP, I dont believe that any particular person can "be" a psychic. Instead, anyone can have psychic experiences.

S + F.

from a christian perspective the astral realm sounds like the area of demons, and sorcery. the stuff forbidden by God.
interesting theory. it sounds like theirs a lot of truth to it tbh
from what i know, you cant get to the spiritual realm on your own. you need God or an angel to bring you there.

Very awesome thread.
Belief systems lets see IMO Religions are Corporate Business Entities.
They just take 10%.
I do know that something higher then myself exists such as A higher being. God.
(jesus probably was a prophet or a great magician)
Meditation is great until you fall asleep in the intense vibrational state.


And my third eye seems to be active well all the time now anyone have anything on this let me know would be great.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
This is really important information...and something that I have been ranting about to no avail mostly for a long time!

The entertainment-seeker wont even attract information like this. So those who most need it will not perceive it. Thats the paradox.

*shrugs* Oh well.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The entertainment-seeker wont even attract information like this. So those who must need it will not perceive it. Thats the paradox.

*shrugs* Oh well.

?????

You've put this together nicely. Astral threads seem to come in waves here, so this is a good thread to refer back to for people reading up on this topic., you reference a good couple of points. S + F.

Peace

Originally posted by Spiritfilled
from a christian perspective the astral realm sounds like the area of demons, and sorcery. the stuff forbidden by God.

The Hindu/Buddhist term "astral-entities" is roughly equivalent to the Christian idea of "demons" imo, yes.

Originally posted by Spiritfilled
?????

Typo corrected.

The idea is that one can only perceive/experience what one is energetically "aligned" with or "in correspondence with". So if someone is on the first floor of a building, they wont see the skyline of the city, no matter how much I rant about it.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Spiritfilled
from what i know, you cant get to the spiritual realm on your own. you need God or an angel to bring you there.

There are various pathways to spiritual realms...and all of them are rare.



[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

How are astral realms different from spiritual realms, and I am just wondering if you can help me with techniques. I have always tried the rope technique and another one falling through the bed but never get it. I know how to lucid dream pretty good, so can you please tell me the difference between astral travel and lucid dreaming. Are you still in REM while astral traveling?? I believe that Astral is possible maybe because of our EM field maybe vibrating at a different frequency, but I just cannot get my head around the whole astral traveling, with all the science nowadays saying its just a certain region of your brain and nothing else. If you can help me out here I will be very grateful. Thank You!

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Those who access astral- and lower-astral-realms for their "spirituality" and "supernatural abilities" feature an array of gimmicky products, self-importance, questionable methods, and stuff that lacks any demonstratable credibility. Astral-ism is usually more a form of entertainment than true dedication to the spiritual. About 99% of "esoteric fairs" with their psychich readers, pseudo-divination, mediumship, ouija boards, UFO-Cults, are easily recongizable as deriving either from con-manship or astral-realms.

Skyfloating this is an excellent OP. what you are saying I have to totally agree with you and have thought the same for a while. You say astral-ism is a form of entertainment, yes absolutely for THEM. Id say its total manipulation , the whole of the astral realm is a manipulation.

A few examples:

* Psychic abilities are not actually abilities of oneself but granted by "the field", "the universe", "the impersonal". But they can also be staged by discarnate-entities in the astral-fields. Astral-fields are full of disembodied tricksters who`s intent is to fool humans and even siphon off energy. Any psychic who takes personal credit for his supernatural abilities is either a fraud or doing so by the power of astral-tricksters.

Again I could not agree more. Disincarnate entities are very manipulative, and even are manipulating the so called psychic masters. Energy is a main reason amongst others.

Funny you should post this because today I suddenly thought for the first time that the Galactic federation may actually not be aliens at all but dead spirits (discarnates). I have a gut feeling about them and the Ashtar command, I think they may be highly manipulative astrals seeking energy and possibly even greater prizes. We are all very spiritual beings, I believe we all have the answer and energy within to find the answers to our own truths, who would we need the help of an alien calling itself a light being from the 7 th plane? It just does not make sense to me. Why would God have created us, given us all we require within and then leave our fate up to some astral entities??? ( To me they are astrals because they claim to channell info to people from a spiritual high plane/realm)

* Another tell-tale sign of one who is being used by astral-forces is if he does not know much about anything else (sports, cultures, literature, languages, world events, movies, music, etc.) than his bizzare teachings, does not know much about anything else than his oddball cult and then calls himself "enlightened", "superiour" or "in the know".

Excellent observation of those who are manipulated by astrals. Spiritual growth and practises are simple, at their heart they are very simple, there is nothing bizzare about them.

Spiritualities Focus is on gradual and patient self-improvement and relief of the worlds suffering.

Astral-teachings are focussed on the immediate gratification of desperate neediness.

After the body dies, one finds oneself on either the astral-plane or a spiritual-realm. This is dependent on ones state of energy.

exactly which is why I have now closed off my aura and healed the gaps astrals caused. I healed it and then sealed it from the whole of the astral realm. I also cut ALL astral attachments which I had formed from my interest in the astral realms. It really is not what it seems and it really is just a complete circus!!!

I have now turned away from the astral realm for answers and only seek within spiritually and never astrally.

S & F, I only hope people see the importance of your thread.

Originally posted by Mr Green
Funny you should post this because today I suddenly thought for the first time that the Galactic federation may actually not be aliens at all but dead spirits (discarnates). I have a gut feeling about them and the Ashtar command, I think they may be highly manipulative astrals seeking energy and possibly even greater prizes. We are all very spiritual beings, I believe we all have the answer and energy within to find the answers to our own truths, who would we need the help of an alien calling itself a light being from the 7 th plane? It just does not make sense to me. Why would God have created us, given us all we require within and then leave our fate up to some astral entities??? ( To me they are astrals because they claim to channell info to people from a spiritual high plane/realm)

Interesting thought.

Society laughs about them as kooks and fringe, but I agree that some of them are actually really astral-tricksters.

Especially the ones who show some of their "tricks" to initiates.

Cultists believe that "the master" can do something, but they themselves cant, so its all a disempowerment-game basically.

I understand your point, Sky, but I personally believe that all of that which you said is ego-based and as you disregard astral-realms because of their supposedly ego-base I am forced to disregard everything that you have said.

Let me try to explain my perspective a little bit better.
You are basically saying that "spiritual is good" and that "astral is bad" or at least not as good as spiritual.
Isn't that pretty much non-inclusive like you stated that the "astral" (which is bad) is?

Here you are attempting to "help" whoever, telling people what is good and what is bad and what they should or what they shouldn't do. What I'm really seeing is indulgence in being knowledgeable which is totally egoistic because in fact you are only trying to prove a point and not really helping anyone (no one can help another when we are dealing with spirituality, one can only help oneself). Its already pretty egocentric to think that other people need help and that you don't to start with.

Don't take this as an offense here, I'm just sharing my perspective which is a product of personal experience.

I think everything is spiritual, there is not one thing that is outside of spirituality in my opinion. So although the astral may not be as complete as the entire "realm" of spirituality it is certainly part of that realm. Envision a group within a group. The group that is inside is astral projecting while the larger group that includes the smaller group is spirituality.

As you said, spirituality is totally inclusive. So how can you separate anything from it? I believe you are being quite contradictory there.

Also, how can spirituality be non-mysterious? Specially when spirituality is really including everything. Everything is pretty mysterious in my opinion. If it wasn't mysterious there would be no point in taking a spiritual path since it is a path of learning. You can only learn if you don't know. And if you don't know its mysterious.

A practical example of this mysteriousness is in zen that you cited. Do you know what is a koan? A koan is a kind of riddle which boggles the mind. The famous "what is the sound of one hand clapping?" is a koan. And the essence of the koan is to expose the mystery of reality which is not graspable by the conceptual mind.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Geladinhu]