It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

GOP flip flops, conservatives keep shut

page: 2
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 06:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


I've stated my position as soon as I read the bill.


Again why are you not addressing the OP? Im asking you to explain to me the "loud" silence from you fellas over the GOPs current strong support for a socialized healthcare system. Why the silence?

SG




posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 06:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


My sincerest apologies for interrupting such a specific and pointed thread.

If you cannot debate a thread without absolutes then specify it on the OP and don't make general statements concerning conservatives.

I leave you to your narrow minded rant.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 06:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by badgerprints
If you cannot debate a thread without absolutes then specify


What, that your probably one of the very few conservatives who support socialized healthcare? Should I be specific now an say "anti-reformist conservatives"? I think its fair to say you are but a tiny minority among the great consensus of conservatives in this country, and I think it'd be further fair to me to say that your own silence on the matter of socialized healthcare lost you any chance to be distinguished. I would have loved to see so called "pro-socialized health care conservatives" actually come out, even if it was merely on this thread, but where were you? And now all of sudden you pop up and Im suppose to "distinguish" you?

Is this not rather concerning to you? This entire flop from a party that has been mobilizing these mobs? You dont appear to care really, especially considering its against socialized healthcare. All you seem to be doing is getting overly defensive, only to assist the very individuals who oppose any form of socialized healthcare in this thread. This just baffles me.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 06:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by badgerprints
If you cannot debate a thread without absolutes then specify

I think its fair to say you are but a tiny minority among the great consensus of conservatives in this country, and I think it'd be further fair to me to say that your own silence on the matter of socialized healthcare lost you any chance to be distinguished.


Oh, I'm quite distinguished in my efforts to prevent Obamacare. I made that clear in my first post.

I havent been silent. I told everybody that I could get to listen how I felt.

I will continue to let people know how I feel. The Obamacare fasco is a big political and financial power grab designed to screw the taxpayers, buy votes and help cement control of the liberal left over the population of this country.

They have no intention of actually improving healthcare. They are simply , as politicians do, attempting to increase government and decrease the control we have over our lives.

Don't miss my point, I still think a socialized healthcare system is a good idea but I won't support one that is designed to screw over the taxpayers.

I must agree with you on one point.
The conservative minority that is not against healthcare is very small but that is because the powers that be and liberal left have used it as an expensive weapon instead of as a benefit to society.
The benefits have been less than promised, more costly than necessary and are steadily and consistently misused.

[edit on 063131p://f55Tuesday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by badgerprints
I will continue to let people know how I feel.


Your certainly eluding me to how you actually feel. I was addressing the anti-reformists, their holding hands parade with the GOP, and the flip flop from the GOP. You are going on to me about how some conservatives support socialized healthcare, what the heck does this have to do with the flip flop from the opposing GOP? Really now, it sounds to be like you are getting defensive over this current stunt they pulled. Dont you find it rather hypocritical of the silence in the room?



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by badgerprints
I will continue to let people know how I feel.


Your certainly eluding me to how you actually feel. I was addressing the anti-reformists, their holding hands parade with the GOP, and the flip flop from the GOP. You are going on to me about how some conservatives support socialized healthcare, what the heck does this have to do with the flip flop from the opposing GOP? Really now, it sounds to be like you are getting defensive over this current stunt they pulled. Dont you find it rather hypocritical of the silence in the room?


I can assure you won't find one Conservative who gives a crap about the GOP. Nor will you find one who really cares about your hyperpartisan useless yammering.

Conservatives have certain principles about government that they adhere to and are what bring them to politics.

You Democrat-obsessed people are all about your shrill party and seeking power at all costs.

Dont confuse us with you.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:23 AM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


Quite frankly, I don't have a real concern over their current “stunt".
They are using something that the left created against the left. That's what's got you upset. You think that because there is some degree of socialization already in the system that the conservatives shouldn't be able to use it as a tool.

Liberals thought that Obamacare would be able to walk up the existing social systems and do whatever it wanted with them. Now they are an impediment and the conservatives are using them as pawns in the game. Did you expect that the existing social systems were the property of the left and the right had no say? Did you think that the people on present programs wouldn't want a say so in how they are changed?

You see it hypocrisy and are using it as a debate point which is fine. It is just another in a long line of stunts from both sides of the manure pile.

I see it as another day of our twisted political system playing their twisted games. It is a small example of hypocrisy in a two party system that is based on hypocrisy.

It is no less disturbed than the hypocrisy of Obamacare where more get healthcare that is literally going to penalize the ones who pay for healthcare and reduce healthcare benefits for everyone but the wealthy, influential and the ones who are on welfare.

My intent was to point out that not all "conservatives" are against a socialized form of healthcare.

Many of us would like to see effective universal healthcare, especially those of us who pay through the nose for it but we aren’t stupid. We can do the math. If we get penalized for being responsible contributing members of society then we won't support it.

It really comes down to that with many conservatives. Math.
I'm not going to work my ass off, pay my bills and taxes as well as pay through the nose for insurance and then agree that those are traits that should be taxed and punished so that liberals can buy more votes and cement their power to take more of what I work for away.

If the government were EVER to come up with true universal healthcare that was reasonable, fair and effective then I'd be all for it.

Obamacare is none of those, so I don't support it. Nor do I support the idea of dismantling existing programs in an effort to create a new one that has not been proven.

If Obamacare worked and was proven then changing things later would make sense but destroying what works a little bit to create something that won't work or is more expensive is just another example of ambition outweighing intelligence.







[edit on 073131p://f53Tuesday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
For all the crys regarding how horrible the public option is, how "socialist" it is, the GOP, that lead these angry mobs to protest any such option by the government made a complete U-turn. Funnily enough, the angry conservative mobs, and many on this site have kept their mouths shut regarding the latest flop from the RNC. You know Iv heard alot of folks make all attempts to cleanse themselves of the GOP, "Im not a republican, im a conservative, Im fighting for the constitution", for all that talk right there it appears GOP loyalty is still right there on the top of list, and it should be well apparent by the silence in the room regarding the sudden "support" of medicare from the RNC, a socialized government run system. I see mobs with their torches standing infront of the DNC, the RNC stands clear. As much as I disagree with conservatives regardless of whether they are republican or not, it is rather tiring seeing hypocrites proclaim their independence then march down hand in hand with their favour republican politician, and totally disregard the flip flops.


The Republicans said they aimed to "protect Medicare and not cut it in the name of health-care reform," in a statement and an accompanying op-ed written by RNC Chairman Michael Steele and published in Monday's Washington Post.

The party also vowed to oppose any Democratic effort to ration care or to insert the government between seniors and their doctors.

online.wsj.com...

It should be well apparent that the silence regarding the complete flop is ever so confirming of where these opposers stand. I'd really like to see that mob go to RNC headquarters all around the nation and protest their sudden stance on another socialist government system, but ofcourse that aint ganna happen, because really this has nothing to do with socialized healthcare and everything to do with the elections, with the republican party, with good'ol Mr Bush Jnr, from what I only seem to hear folks, "was unfairly treated during his 8years".

The next time I hear another hypocrite tell me "we're not fighting for the republican party" I'll be happy tell them where the closest Republican offices are to them, gotta get early to the next anti-socialism mob fest.

SG




You have no point, the only reason for this post is for is to stir up more hard feelings, widen the divide and create animosity.



For all the crys regarding how horrible the public option is, how "socialist" it is, the GOP, that lead these angry mobs to protest any such option by the government made a complete U-turn.


What cries? Please elaborate.

How horrible is the public option?

Show us the proof that the GOP is the leader of an entire group of faceless, nameless individuals referred to as "angry mobs". Not your opinion or someone else's, I want the smoking gun proof.

How exactly did the "u-turn" become obvious to you? Please elaborate specifically.

And finally, provide links and sources to back up your claims in this single creative writing sentence. Once you have done so, we may proceed onward in an effort to clarify the rest of your story.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:49 AM
link   
This whole thread is nothing more than a disguised political trolling festival. The battle over semantics is mind numbing. I am still trying to understand the original post.

How is protecting medicare considered a flip flop? Medicare could use some work but our Senior Citizens rely on it.

Medicare has been in existence since 1965. Comparing medicare to Obamacare is like comparing blueberries to watermelons. We are having a difficult enough time paying for medicare as it is. How are we going to pay for Obamacare as well. Something has to give and sadly under Obamacare it will be medicare.

The GOP wants to protect our Senior population. They are proposing a new Health Care Bill of Rights to protect their BEST interests.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 25-8-2009 by jibeho]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by jibeho]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 04:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Hazelnut
 


You hear nothing from the mobs regarding the GOP's sudden stance on healthcare, thats my main point, its something you fellas here continue to ignore and derail.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 04:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by badgerprints
Quite frankly, I don't have a real concern over their current “stunt".


Wonderful, then dont post. Im not concerned about any other topic than this. If you want to discuss something else go an post another thread.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 04:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by VinceP1974
I can assure you won't find one Conservative who gives a crap about the GOP.


This here is where my issue arises. Really? The dont? Howmany of those teabagging events, those town hall mob attacks, homwmany of them got off without some GOP influence? You want me to ignore the big white elephant in the room with you? Oh no I only ignore when its convenient right?

I tell ya, with the GOP reaffirming their support for socialized healthcare would have figure the mobs and your folks to be outraged, instead all I get are petty defensive attacks. Only tells me this has nothing to do with opposition against socialized healthcare at all, just an excuse to bicker, as I suspected.

I'll address the next member who actually replies to the OP.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 05:01 PM
link   
I love how the Demoncraps shut down all oil exploration and construction. They then turned around and gave Brazil over 100 billion dollars to spend on their offshore oil exploration. So let me get this straight I am going to loose my job because of 100% politics and 0% economy and the best part about it is my tax dollars are going to support the brazilian economy?


Oh You people talk the talk but guess what You don't walk the walk. I think it has more to do with shutting down the oil field so they can unionize it later. I wonder how many families are going to loose their homes because of politics plain and simple. Oh and btw the unions have tried to get down here for years but guess what WE DON'T WANT THEM because they drive companies out of business .... So take Your left leaning Liberal non constitutionalist arse and shove it....



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 05:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


I don't understand what you're trying to say. That Republicans are in favor of SS, but against the gov't option, and so that makes them hypocritcal?

Your accusation doesn't hold water. Nobody here on ATS on in congress was around to protest the creation of SS. But now that it is an institution, and now that so many elderly are dependent upon it, we cannot just drop it because it smacks of socialism. Want to create a massive crisis in America? Make deep cuts in SS, or eliminate it completely.

SS is the sole source of income for many elderly. To cut it or eliminate it is almost equivalent to genocide.

The fact that SS is bankrupt is testimony to the failings of socialized medicine.

Wer are however, in a position to stop this abomination called Obamacare. And God willing and the creek don't rise, we will stop the gov't option.

Edit: We're talking healthcare, so change reference of SS to medicare. Same arguments apply.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by jsobecky]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 05:24 PM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


Originally posted by VinceP1974

I can assure you won't find one Conservative who gives a crap about the GOP.


This here is where my issue arises. Really? The dont? Howmany of those teabagging events, those town hall mob attacks, homwmany of them got off without some GOP influence? You want me to ignore the big white elephant in the room with you? Oh no I only ignore when its convenient right?


Another misconception, another fallacy - that tea parties and town hall meetings are populated only by Republicans.

You are wrong, SG. These events are attended by *all* segments of the American public.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 05:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


I do like how you assume that conservatives and republicans are all happy bedfellows! More and more conservatives are becoming disillusioned with republicans in particular. As to the joke that is Obamacare, every other gov't program gets misused and run to the ground! So you are in favor of instituting yet another political travesty? Maybe the existing programs should be evaluated and steps made to fix them? No lets just waste more time and energy on a new one. I have a problem with stacking more and more social programs on top of each other!
I'd like to know when health care became a "right" of the people! It's a modern conceit based on the old economy that has been failing. The government is not the parent of it's people! Can I get some money? I can't get a loan to buy a house... We can see just how well that has worked for us!



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by VinceP1974
I can assure you won't find one Conservative who gives a crap about the GOP.


This here is where my issue arises. Really? The dont? Howmany of those teabagging events, those town hall mob attacks, homwmany of them got off without some GOP influence? You want me to ignore the big white elephant in the room with you? Oh no I only ignore when its convenient right?

I tell ya, with the GOP reaffirming their support for socialized healthcare would have figure the mobs and your folks to be outraged, instead all I get are petty defensive attacks. Only tells me this has nothing to do with opposition against socialized healthcare at all, just an excuse to bicker, as I suspected.

I'll address the next member who actually replies to the OP.


I can only conclude you live in a very narrow bubble. You certainly haven taken any time to listen to the protesters speak for themselves. You haven't listened to anything about what they say has motivated.

Instead you have this very Left-like firm conviction in your out-dated politically bigoted stereotype about people you know NOTHING about.

I mean really how can someone go around being so utterly ignorant of people and yet constantly talk about them as if you know them..

You reveal yourself as nothing but a shallow minded, closed minded, dull "thinker".



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
For all the crys regarding how horrible the public option is, how "socialist" it is, the GOP, that lead these angry mobs to protest any such option by the government made a complete U-turn. Funnily enough, the angry conservative mobs, and many on this site have kept their mouths shut regarding the latest flop from the RNC. You know Iv heard alot of folks make all attempts to cleanse themselves of the GOP, "Im not a republican, im a conservative, Im fighting for the constitution", for all that talk right there it appears GOP loyalty is still right there on the top of list, and it should be well apparent by the silence in the room regarding the sudden "support" of medicare from the RNC, a socialized government run system. I see mobs with their torches standing infront of the DNC, the RNC stands clear. As much as I disagree with conservatives regardless of whether they are republican or not, it is rather tiring seeing hypocrites proclaim their independence then march down hand in hand with their favour republican politician, and totally disregard the flip flops.


*Taps the microphone*
*Taps the microphone*
I have been sitting on the sidelines for far too long!

*Taps the microphone*
*Taps the microphone*
While I find it hilarious that many people 'trust the government', I also find it very hilarious that those same people 'are rattled by the notion of protecting one's freedom'. Once groups of individuals stand up for what they believe, there is always a party stopper in the room.

*Taps the microphone*
*Taps the microphone*
What I am beginning to see is myself digressing back in time. When I didn't give a damn about political parties, and all I cared about is my neighbor's well being. I was never a Democrat, Republican, nor was I an Independent. What I am is an actual American who stands up, throws off the shackles of government control, pulls down my pants, and tells Obama and anyone like you to pucker up.

You can turn me in all you want. When it all comes down the line, YOU are not going to stop me from being who I really am. You are about to meet the people who Mr. Obama cannot stop from succeeding.

We are:

The Revolution X

Only people who believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Deceleration of Independence wanted. I do not care if you are a Republican, Conservative, Democrat, Liberal, or Independent. If you have a voice that screams for independence and freedom from government interloping, you have already qualified as an American Revolution Xer!

Southern Guardian, we are here to stay, so have a nice day!


[edit on 25-8-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:49 PM
link   
SG,

Once again you are talking in absolutes:

SG argument: We pay for police, fire, army, s.s., medicare, medicaid, "WHY NOT JUST PAY FOR OBAMACARE"?

And if you complain OR don't like it then YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.

Again, you fail to understand that THIS IS A GOVERNMENT program...and since it is WE...THE PEOPLE have a right to decide whether we want another bureaucracy.

And again, you may see inconsistency in the public, wanting this...and not wanting that BUT THAT'S THE RIGHT OF THE PUBLIC....for it TO BE AS ARBITRARY AS IT WANTS. You make the silly argument that because we have X, therefore we should have Y, and if we don't, we are being hypocritical.

In other words, if we are partly a mixed economy bordering on socialism, HELL why NOT full BLOWN socialism or at least MORE OF IT, and if we only have partial socialism then we must be hypocritical.

Finally, I'd just like to ask you SG, just who are we being hypocritical towards? Marx's communist manifesto?







[edit on 25-8-2009 by Gateway]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 10:22 PM
link   
Damn my man you might as well be in the hills surrounding RIO wearing a gold chain...

I don't even know what to say anymore



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join