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RAND -Health Reform Options to Reduce # of Uninsured

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posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Well it was happenstance, I guess, that I came upon this news release from RAND corp.


Certain Health Reform Policy Options Would Significantly Reduce Number of Uninsured Americans

Monday
August 24, 2009

...Researchers from RAND, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization, found that under different design choices the Baucus proposal could significantly cut the number of uninsured Americans with almost no increase in overall spending on health care, although government costs would increase by an estimated 5 percent to 7 percent.

"What is clear is that the extent of subsidies to help people purchase insurance, as well as the size of the penalty for an individual who fails to purchase insurance or an employer who fails to offer it, can make a substantial difference," said Elizabeth McGlynn, co-director of COMPARE and associate director of RAND Health. "These are some of the key decisions that face Congress when it returns after the recess." ...

...A unique feature of the RAND analysis is the ability to estimate the impact of these policy changes on the health of the nation. Researchers estimate that under full implementation, the white paper's proposal would add 9.3 million life years to the U.S. population.


Thought you all might find the news release a good piece of information to use as you will.

-anyone

Please click this link to read the full news release.




posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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Of course crickets!

And the sound of avoidance, similar to the constant ringing in Palins cranium.
Much like the enduring sound one hears after a large nearby explosion, like the one long song of a sea shell, only high in pitch.

Anyone, you should insert "Obama beats Bald Eagle while cursing in Farsi" to the Title.


Interesting, AYN RANDS minions would find the SOCIALISMSIST model efficient -

I am questioning reality now...

[edit on 24-8-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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From the op's source.


That proposal relates to draft legislation that is still being negotiated by the Senate Finance Committee, of which Sen. Baucus (D-Montana) is chairman. Not all of the elements examined by RAND will necessarily be part of the legislation that ultimately emerges from that committee, but many of the features are similar to those found in the House Tri-Committee bill and the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee bill.


Seems everything is based on a what if scenario. The RAND release is informative, but it is rather difficult to figure out which plan, if any, would be best for America.

I, for one, would like Congress to pick one and let America see what is in the bill before voting on it. The bill should be written in plain English and limited only to healthcare issues> No Pork.

I think Congress did itself a disservice by presenting a bill that they had vague details about.

Thanks for the article.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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Ah the aversion...

Thank you Anyone, I think the debate is about contempt...



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Yes, the contempt of a democrat in office, perhaps. It really is strange how repelled some are from facts. I was hoping for more discourse to arise... you would think that better health care would be something all humans would want. I hope it's what we'll get.

Here's hoping!
-anyone



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Yes I too hope things will get done when they return.

And also hope that informative material like this easy to read news release will be prevalent when they hammer it all out.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by anyone
 



you would think that better health care would be something all humans would want.


I agree with you. But let's look at it from a different point of view.

How long have we been with the current situation?

Now, based on your answer.

Do you really think it would be wise to pass a bill that Congress has barely read?

Do you really think it is wise or necessary to rush this through in six months with very little debate?

Not debate so much among us the average citizens, but debate among the doctors, hospitals, lawyers, politicians, corporations, employers who all play an important role in our healthcare. Individuals and entities that can offer real insight into what is really the problem and what is the best fix for our system.

People like mental modulator who have insight into how the game is played. It is a shame that Congress can get committees for kneepads talk, steroids talk, embarrassing Generals, but can't get a committee to do what is right for America.

I don't think I asking for much when I ask Congress to FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

I don't care if it takes a year or even two years. Don't care if it is Obama's term or somebody's else term. Just for them to take their time and do it right.

I am tired of Congresses quick fixes that only end up costing us more trouble down the line.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by anyone
reply to post by mental modulator
 


Yes, the contempt of a democrat in office, perhaps. It really is strange how repelled some are from facts. I was hoping for more discourse to arise... you would think that better health care would be something all humans would want. I hope it's what we'll get.

Here's hoping!
-anyone


I really don't think this is about humanity anymore... Plus I don't think many
really give two thoughts about others here. The same people run off with
emotional notions time and time again - , 9/11, TERRORISTS, IRACK, TORTURES, PATRIOT ACT and now DEATH PANELS/HEALTH CARE. Same cast of characters, same fuel (make something up and run with it basically), same level of discussion and yet the equation is so simple.

MOW down the discussion, thought and communication and here we are.

Good luck -






[edit on 24-8-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by jam321

Do you really think it would be wise to pass a bill that Congress has barely read?

Do you really think it is wise or necessary to rush this through in six months with very little debate?

Not debate so much among us the average citizens, but debate among the doctors, hospitals, lawyers, politicians, corporations, employers who all play an important role in our healthcare. Individuals and entities that can offer real insight into what is really the problem and what is the best fix for our system.

People like mental modulator who have insight into how the game is played. It is a shame that Congress can get committees for kneepads talk, steroids talk, embarrassing Generals, but can't get a committee to do what is right for America.

I don't think I asking for much when I ask Congress to FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

I don't care if it takes a year or even two years. Don't care if it is Obama's term or somebody's else term. Just for them to take their time and do it right.

I am tired of Congresses quick fixes that only end up costing us more
trouble down the line.


I guess the way I look at it is the kind of "debate" coming from many repubs. is just detracting and not helping. I feel that Obama has been pretty bipartison and patient... Maybe I'm "too far left"/left of the left/idealist but Obama seems like he has a good plan and a sound fiscal platform to balance it on. And now with people like Bauscus bringing in a bit more conservative plan (I think) the repubs might get on board (hah;did I say that?).

Really does seem like more contempt and sabatoge than actually trying to get things done; what I've been seeing lately, that is.

I actually think the dems. might just push it through because repubs aren't willing to budge.

I don't know.
-anyone



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by anyone
 


See, that is the problem. Dems don't need the Reps. They could have passed this already if they wanted to. And if I honestly felt this bill was well understood by the Dems, I would want them to pass it whether the reps like it or not.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but Dems nor Reps pay my bills. There are many people like me who don't care about the two parties, do want health insurance, but don't want a piece of snip legislation.

We want something that will take care of us presently and that will not turn into a problem for us in the future. We don't need another social security or medicare fiasco facing us down the road.

My government, not reps or dems, have convinced me that they have no real idea how all of this will play out. They are trying to pass something and fill in the holes as they go. Dangerous medicine IMO.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Ye, but... well somebody's gotta do it. And supposedly it's up to us to designate those people. It really is silly. When repubs. are in office dems. are looking forward to when they will be in office and vice versa. Who has control? Blah! Noone if they are not working for all our benefits. It's pretty counter productive, your right.

We make do with what we have, I guess. I guess the balance of power is supposed to do just that, balance out.


Little do some people know here, that I don't agree with everything Obama does. He's far more conservative than I am.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by mental modulator


Good luck -


Good luck to all of us indeed.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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Interesting chart they provide in the analysis www.randcompare.org...

Also interesting to note how many of the proposals that will make a difference are also difficult to implement.

It appears they ran on the Baucus "Call to Action" White paper, which makes many recommendation that are incorporated in many of the bills floating, but not one of the bills floating encompasses all of the recommendations.

The specific proposals included in the analysis are listed here www.randcompare.org...

Another fun thing to experiment with is the modeling estimates, and you can pick & choose the factors for the results.

Another interesting piece of information in that RAND provides, is a listing of the different State's initiatives already in the works or regulated by the individual states www.randcompare.org...

Pretty good info there, too bad they didn't conclude with which proposals would be the least difficult to enact and yet still provide the best benefit for the public.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by anyone and post by jam321
 


Have you guys ever even heard of the Blue Dog Democrats? You're either ignorant or nuts if you think there was little or no Democratic opposition to the current health care reform proposals.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Hey, thanks redhatty for all of the links; more info. is always better.

I was just about to go to bed when I saw your post. Now I am perusing a bit more.




posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
reply to post by anyone and post by jam321
 


Have you guys ever even heard of the Blue Dog Democrats? You're either ignorant or nuts if you think there was little or no Democratic opposition to the current health care reform proposals.


Where did I say there was no opposition? Oh I guess I just mentioned repub. Excuse me for leaving out the blue dogs. I didn't think I had to be so explicit. Anyway, I did say I was the left of the left. ?

Does that help?

edit to add:
I said:

repubs aren't willing to budge.


I am now adding and some blue dogs (and Lieberman)



[edit on 25-8-2009 by anyone]
edit also to add
-just playing


[edit on 25-8-2009 by anyone]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 



See, that is the problem. Dems don't need the Reps. They could have passed this already if they wanted to.


Sorry John, thought the above covered that the Dems had trouble within their own party.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 12:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by anyone
 



you would think that better health care would be something all humans would want.


I agree with you. But let's look at it from a different point of view.

How long have we been with the current situation?

Now, based on your answer.

Do you really think it would be wise to pass a bill that Congress has barely read?

Do you really think it is wise or necessary to rush this through in six months with very little debate?

Not debate so much among us the average citizens, but debate among the doctors, hospitals, lawyers, politicians, corporations, employers who all play an important role in our healthcare. Individuals and entities that can offer real insight into what is really the problem and what is the best fix for our system.

People like mental modulator who have insight into how the game is played. It is a shame that Congress can get committees for kneepads talk, steroids talk, embarrassing Generals, but can't get a committee to do what is right for America.

I don't think I asking for much when I ask Congress to FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

I don't care if it takes a year or even two years. Don't care if it is Obama's term or somebody's else term. Just for them to take their time and do it right.

I am tired of Congresses quick fixes that only end up costing us more trouble down the line.


Very firm points, let me tell you the skinny on the private insurers...

Very simple and it is applied across the board.

DOCTOR applies to be in "network" to acquire a patient base -

INSURANCE SAYS OK, but we stipulate the terms -

DOCTOR SAYS OK, I NEED TO KEEP MY BUSINESS (realizing this the way it works in our society)

INSURANCE COMPANY SAYS OK, WE WILL PAY YOU X, Y, Z FOR "SERVICING" our customers.

Patient comes in for an X and Z procedures -

DOCTOR DOES THE JOB

DOCTOR BILLS INSURANCE FOR A $100 per the agreement stipulated to be in the game.

INSURANCE DETERMINES THAT THE PROCEDURE WAS WORTH $250.00

INSURANCE BILLS THE POOL EXPENSE AT THE $250.00 DETERMINATION

The cost of "CARE" has been outsourced intentionally creating a %150 inflation
of cost which slowly hikes the rates of MEMBERSHIP IN THE POLICY.

WHILE actual cost was only 2/5th the "cost"...

This is done in every company, they collude just enough, keep a methodical pace of expansion, while burying this basic method in coding and departmental funneling.

"SEND IT AROUND THE WORLD" is the term, like a game of telephone the financial information is distorted the more it travels. Eventually the money is shaved off, as "over head".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JAM, this is a SCAM, masquerading as business...

The ins and outs are so thoroughly guarded that there is no OTHER OPTION but to pay tribute to this machine, because it is the only ride in town.

Then PHARM comes in and makes the deal sweet for the DOC'S so that they happily endure the Insurance dictates.

Remember

Insurance "employs" DOC,

DOC write the RX,

Pharm "influence$" DOC by making up for the crappy INS. claim returns in return for RX determination... (BTW INFLATED FAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR more than 150%)


RX refills require???

A DOCTORS VISIT

Repeat process, tack on more inflation...

Insurance inflates cost 150%................................................................................

This is like the FED in its implication... NEVER ENDING DEBT AND INFLATION.

You have NO choice other than no coverage, only different in name to taxation without representation JAM.

These people make better returns than Casino's or loan sharks.

The scam is initiated in the DOC/PROVIDER contract and in house INSURANCE BILLING.

I did not elect these things, I can't vote em out, I can't even convey this simple
method without being bashed from every which side. There is a wall, the only role these entities play in society is orchestrator of whole sale extortion... Under the guise of risk, which they determine more to their benefit...


There has got to be a point when we protect our necks as opposed to our persona's.

At this rate of inflation the $250.00 X - Z procedure will be $500.00 less than ten years... While DOC will earn $20.00 out of that 100% increase on top of the 150%
inflated service charge.

THIS IS CRAZINESS, Jam, everybody and then the entire basis and scope of conversation is NAZI'S AND DEATH PANELS?

I mean, I am a good guy here, I do my part, contribute to the world and yet I am lumped in with Stalin and Hitler for even providing vital facts for all to consider...











[edit on 25-8-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by redhatty
Interesting chart they provide in the analysis www.randcompare.org...

Also interesting to note how many of the proposals that will make a difference are also difficult to implement.

It appears they ran on the Baucus "Call to Action" White paper, which makes many recommendation that are incorporated in many of the bills floating, but not one of the bills floating encompasses all of the recommendations.

The specific proposals included in the analysis are listed here www.randcompare.org...

Another fun thing to experiment with is the modeling estimates, and you can pick & choose the factors for the results.

Another interesting piece of information in that RAND provides, is a listing of the different State's initiatives already in the works or regulated by the individual states www.randcompare.org...

Pretty good info there, too bad they didn't conclude with which proposals would be the least difficult to enact and yet still provide the best benefit for the public.


Redhatty, would you please read my lengthy post to at lest familiarize your self with a billing clerks prospective? Add to your base and take what you will...



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Mental, I worked in Medicine for 12 years, I know quite well how the insurance game goes.

Without being called an Insurance company, the same practice would be prosecuted as a Ponzi scheme & has been many times

I have ALWAYS said the insurance racket is the biggest legal ponzi scheme around, but lately, the big banks & bank holding companies are giving them a run for that title




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