A storm brews over food, water & power

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posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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As the world's population grows, competition for food, water and energy will increase. Food prices will rise, more people will go hungry, and migrants will flee the worst-affected regions.





news.bbc.co.uk...

I posted this report for all of the ATS members as it brings together a lot of threads that have been shot down as being doom mongering and fantasy. I think this is the bleak future we are looking at and by the looks of it a Nuclear War might be a blessing in disguise, this plannet cannot substain our species, as simple as that


[edit on 24/8/09 by On the level]




posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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I found this report a real eye opener and in kinda makes me hope the myans are right about 2012
, some of the most startling facts:

By 2030 "a whole series of events come together":

The world's population will rise from 6bn to 8bn (33%)
Demand for food will increase by 50%
Demand for water will increase by 30%
Demand for energy will increase by 50%

I can see the future water wars and mass exterminations of hole cultures on the cards, and I will be 50 years old, some retirement for me by the looks of it.
I hope everyone has a chance to read the full report at the BBC website as has some very well made videos and diagrams which I do not want to plagarise on this site.

[edit on 24/8/09 by On the level]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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I wonder if we can actualy believe these reports 100%.
TPTB are very eeger to show us we are overpopulated and the earth cant sustain that many people !

How many of us here have actualy been out in the world and vitnessed that there are places where people are so tightly packed that they cant move ?

The earth has plenty of space , and is it so that we are running out of soil to grow food in ??

Are we running out of oxygen ???



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by ChemBreather
 


There is massive amounts of landmass on the plannet, the point is that most of it is like the dustbowl in CA or the Sahara, unusable and inhospitable to say the least
. It is the places where land is at a premium and people want to be that is causing the problem. I genuinely worry about Scotland in the future as it has a massive store of water and land that can be converted to housing, could be a real target in the next 30 odd years.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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It is a sorry thing that some of our best ag land is being paved over with housing developments.
TPTB are preparing to put meters on private wells.
Now, what does that tell you about the water supply?

I would like one of you populatin growth forever folks to tell us,
Why exactly should we who have what we need for our comfort and happiness should be forced to give up any of it,
just so more people can be born.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by On the level
 


You know the agenda21 is working for a more planet friendly future.
Humans are not allowed to travel to surten areas and ag land will be reverted back to nature...

You probably seen or heard about that, farmers not being allowed to sow their crop etc...



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by On the level
 


I think we waste alot of land in the world... that could be used to produce food. And one of the main reason people do not use it I belive is because of control..

My simple solutions to feeding the world the WHOLE WORLD....

There are large amounts of arid land desert mind you. And some if not all of this desert is located near oceans. how hard would it be to open water facilites to suck in the salt water from the oceans, take out all the salt, and clean the water? From there you build massive "water pipelines" to these arid lands and pump that water into crops that we can plant there. Not only could we feed and water the enitre world but get people to back to work in Africa the Middle East and our very own deserts in the American Southwest. Granted there is a logistical aspect of this, but you mean to tell me we as a collective whole cannot turn salt water into real water? Some of the desert species like scorpions or snakes may be endager, but humans or snakes...hhmmm Humans when all the time.... Man If I had the money to do this I would and boy would I be the first trillionaire of the world.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
It is a sorry thing that some of our best ag land is being paved over with housing developments.
TPTB are preparing to put meters on private wells.
Now, what does that tell you about the water supply?

I would like one of you populatin growth forever folks to tell us,
Why exactly should we who have what we need for our comfort and happiness should be forced to give up any of it,
just so more people can be born.


The fact that they have claimed ownership over our water should get us Outraged, they have so to speak that control mechanism in place all ready.

It is all under agenda21, check it out..those bastards are way way into their agenda NOW, and Codex coming this winter, we are running out of time is we want to make a differense !!!



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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In fact, we are running out of arable land. In the US, we pave it over for strip malls and housing developments. In other parts of the world, erosion takes a toll, as does desertification. In the meantime, we're running out of water and fuel.

The problem isn't so much with crowding. The entire population of the earth would fit into the Grand Canyon, according to some calculation or other. The problem is that for each person we need a certain amount of arable land to grow food, a certain amount of energy, water, and other resources. We're running out of those resources.

So far, technology has been able to increase the crop yield of land to almost keep up with the growing population. Unfortunately, that can't keep going. Worse yet, the fertilizers and pesticides we are making not only require energy to manufacture, they require oil as their main ingredient. Once again, oil shows itself to be crucial for our wellbeing, but oil is in finite supply. It's getting increasingly expensive to get oil out of the ground. At some point it will take as much energy to extract the oil as we get from the oil, and that will be the end of oil as a source of energy (though we'll still probably need it for raw materials for pesticides, etc.).

We really can't keep breeding mindlessly. At some point - I'm not saying 2030, but there is some point out there - the population will reach a critical value, and then it will collapse abruptly as food supplies fail or disease flashes through the population.

Whenever population grows excessively, Nature eventually culls the herd. Nature is not particularly gentle about it. We would be better off avoiding the cull by ensuring our population remains within healthy bounds - which is probably about half the people we already have.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


It would be very difficult to extract the salt from the ocean water. The process requires an enormous amount of energy. In some desert areas it is possible to use the sun to heat the water and desalinate it, but the process is inefficient and doesn't yield the vast quantities of water you'd hope for.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by On the level
 


Something needs to be done to drastically curb the population growth of the 3rd world.. Perhaps ending all humanitarian aid? .. Drastic yes, but with no food supplies being shipped in the population would be naturally limited to their ability to grow food. Thus the population cannot by nature exceed what the land can provide..

The only thing I disagree with in the chart is Asian growth will probably start leveling out, as more and more money is being invested there. It's a well known fact that prosperity brings smaller families and thus, smaller population growth (this is what happened to Europeans)



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by On the level
 


I think we waste alot of land in the world... that could be used to produce food. And one of the main reason people do not use it I belive is because of control..

My simple solutions to feeding the world the WHOLE WORLD....

There are large amounts of arid land desert mind you. And some if not all of this desert is located near oceans. how hard would it be to open water facilites to suck in the salt water from the oceans, take out all the salt, and clean the water? From there you build massive "water pipelines" to these arid lands and pump that water into crops that we can plant there. Not only could we feed and water the enitre world but get people to back to work in Africa the Middle East and our very own deserts in the American Southwest. Granted there is a logistical aspect of this, but you mean to tell me we as a collective whole cannot turn salt water into real water? Some of the desert species like scorpions or snakes may be endager, but humans or snakes...hhmmm Humans when all the time.... Man If I had the money to do this I would and boy would I be the first trillionaire of the world.


Right on the money! Pipelines & Solar distillation of sea water pumped back to the populous. But don't grow food in the desert, grow Algae for Algae oil. See this for complete details: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Algae leftovers (after Oil & Alcohol) can even be used as animal feed saving more crops for human food. It is a win-win.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I think you are bang on as the Third world is currently only good at one thing and that is breeding. I just posted in a recent thread where africa is asking the rest of the world for 67 billion dollars due to the affect of global warming. You would be aswell throwing the notes onto a fire for all the good it does. I think all countries should put a cap on the number of children aloud per couple, and in cases where they are drug addicts, stelization would be the best method. China will slow down as previous posters have said, the problem worldwide seems to be the wrong people haveing children for wrong reasons, mostly benefits and free housing, take away the benefits and the housing and in some cases the choice of having the kids and this problem could be averted.



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by chiron613
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


It would be very difficult to extract the salt from the ocean water. The process requires an enormous amount of energy. In some desert areas it is possible to use the sun to heat the water and desalinate it, but the process is inefficient and doesn't yield the vast quantities of water you'd hope for.


Well that is not quite true,
The process of reverse osmosis as a means of seawater de-salination is fairly straight forward and has been already in use for decades. The materials for such plants are expensive as they are generally the more exotic steels, super duplex, stainless etc, that is about the only drawback.

PEACE,
RK



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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Either way, whether intentionally initiated by some shadowy NWO cabal or via natural events, a whole bunch of people are going to die, and it isn't going to be pretty.

On a purely mathematical and statistical level, shapes like the following just really don't tend to persist all that long:




[edit on 8/25/09 by silent thunder]



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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OK but putting things into perspective...It has been postulated that all of the 6 + billion people on the planet could all own and occupy a quarter acre on just Australia alone...

Of course you have to take into consideration all the arid land, mountainous terrain and un inhabitable areas, but none the less... It is of my opinion the earth is no where near unsustainable levels of human population. Personally I think we could triple our population and still be ok...

Let me take just one very small place in the U.S. for example: California. One probably thinks of L.A. when thinking about CA...Over populated, high in crime, and high in poverty...All very true...

But if you have traveled from one end to the other you would see the unbelievable amount of completely untouched land that exists...even on the coast...which can be considered some of the most valuable real estate any investor could own and therefore develop...This land could easily sustain another 25 million people in my opinion...

Those that think the earth is over populated need to take another look. Factor in the advances in technology and infrastructure engineering, it is easily to comprehend the population sustainable at much higher populations... not that I would like to see ti that way...
...quite the contrary...my only point...we have not hit the unsustainable level just yet...



posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
OK but putting things into perspective...It has been postulated that all of the 6 + billion people on the planet could all own and occupy a quarter acre on just Australia alone...

Of course you have to take into consideration all the arid land, mountainous terrain and un inhabitable areas, but none the less... It is of my opinion the earth is no where near unsustainable levels of human population. Personally I think we could triple our population and still be ok...


Sure, we could easily pack 20 billiion people into this world, why not? Let's all live like factory-farmed chickens. I hear in Beijing there are already people living on rooves in dog-cages.

It's not just a matter of "how many people can physically fit into location X." Remember, a human life requires space for growing food, plastic and alumimum for iPods and Pepsi, water for your lawn, roads to transport all this stuff, shopping centers and museums and movie theatres to entertain you, offices or factories to work at, and so on and so forth. The list is much longer but you get the idea.

Arable land is a big limiting issue, as are freshwater supplies. Now, if you've already got your mind made up on this, nothing will convince you, but many of the world's largest rivers no longer reach the sea and I fully expect to see the first "water war" somewhere in the world within the next decade.

As for land, a lot less is suitable for growing food than you might imagine. As an ex-farmboy myself, I can tell you it takes a lot more than scattering a few seeds hither and thither. As the world urbanizes, more and more good farmland gets asphaulted over, exacerbating the problem. There is a lot of land that can grow "a little" food, but much less than most people think that can actually grow big stocks of crops.

And a dirty little secret is that much of the world's "best" farmland, whether we are talking Kansas or the Ukraine, is addicted to petroleum-based fertilizers. The natural minerals needed to grow food have been leeched out years ago, so we pump the fertilizer into soil that has essentially become a sponge made of sandy dirt. No fertilizer, no food. No oil, no fertilizer.

[edit on 8/25/09 by silent thunder]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 



As for land, a lot less is suitable for growing food than you might imagine. As an ex-farmboy myself, I can tell you it takes a lot more than scattering a few seeds hither and thither. As the world urbanizes, more and more good farmland gets asphaulted over, exacerbating the problem. There is a lot of land that can grow "a little" food, but much less than most people think that can actually grow big stocks of crops.


Your correct. All this has to be accounted for. Along with 15 billion people must come the way sand means of feeding, clothing and occupying 15 billion people.

What you are not taking into consideration are the different technologies already being devised and engineered to tackle such feets.

Here is an example of such engineering..Youd be surprised how adaptable society is...

Skyscraper farms



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Cool link, thanks.

Well, I hope you are right because like it or not, a lot more people will be joining us on this planet in the next few decades.

I generally feel that arguments on ATS about population and the environment are useless because 99% of the posters already have their minds made up one way or another and very few on either side are willing to explore the issue with open minds. It usually becomes very polemic, ideological, and partisan, unfortunately, and ultimately circular, with nobody convincing anyone of anything. Not referring to you in particular; I generally enjoy reading your posts. But this topic is like the third rail of ATS for some reason.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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There is no reason to fight a war over resources. There is no need to fight over anything. If governments and the people were to unite in order to preserve the human species then anything is possible. If we were to join forces without a profit motive and for the motive of survival we could literally travel the galaxy. We could find new star systems in our galaxy that have a habitable planet. If man was to really unite for the good of the species then anything is possible.



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