Barney Frank Floored By Nazi Insult at Town Hall. OMG

The woman's comparison was historically without foundation. The Nazis never instituted a health care policy in which certain benefits might be withheld from people suffering from particular illnesses. They instituted a campaign of extermination of people based on their disabilities, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, political beliefs, and other factors. They rounded these people up and murdered them.

That's not the same as *potentially* refusing treatment for certain types of illness.

One thing the Nazis really did, though, was to use propaganda to lie. They frequently depicted the people they hated in unflattering ways, just as this woman and her friends were displaying a picture of Obama looking like Hitler. That's a whole lot closer to what the Nazis were doing, than what Obama was doing or proposing.

Comparing Obama (or his policies or efforts) to Nazis is nothing more than name-calling. It is nothing more than an insult, not a legitimate question about the health care plan. It was an attack against the person. Frank's response was more than that woman deserved.

Originally posted by ANTHONY33
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

You really don't get it. The fact is the questions asked are very important but this guy did not have desirable answers to them so he conveniently played the '' I am a Jew so I can't be a bad person '' card on her. There was no attack on his race or religious beliefs but he chose to take the opportunity to make it so.

He is basically saying I am Jewish so you cant touch me. I am immune to criticism because I am a Jew. As if to say he could not possibly subscribe to NAZI style agendas.

It makes no difference what race or culture one comes from there is bad eggs everywhere and this one just happens to proclaim his Jewishness. Yeah right

[edit on 24-8-2009 by ANTHONY33]

That lady went way past the line with that idiocy... Seems you and bint did not take notice of the massive militarization and nationalism that bread the NAZI'S unbridled power. The reference is so detached from the referenced that it should be added to DSM - projected delusional disorder

I wouldn't have not been so kind, line backer or water logged tart alike.

Originally posted by ANTHONY33
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

You really don't get it. The fact is the questions asked are very important but this guy did not have desirable answers to them so he conveniently played the '' I am a Jew so I can't be a bad person '' card on her. There was no attack on his race or religious beliefs but he chose to take the opportunity to make it so.

He is basically saying I am Jewish so you cant touch me. I am immune to criticism because I am a Jew. As if to say he could not possibly subscribe to NAZI style agendas.

It makes no difference what race or culture one comes from there is bad eggs everywhere and this one just happens to proclaim his Jewishness. Yeah right

[edit on 24-8-2009 by ANTHONY33]

How is government run healthcare nazi style agendas? What evidence is there of death panels? Putting aside what some people think of Jews etc, what else is he supposed to say to somebody who doesn't talk any sense whatsoever.

reply to post by mental modulator


I have to agree that she went overboard with all the NAZI references but the questions she asked deserve attention.
I my self try to steer clear of these petty squabbles over how things were worded as there is a far bigger and more pressing matter at hand here don't you all agree? Like what have TPTB got in store for you all? No? or do you just want to squabble over analogies.

I'm done here so I will leave you guys to it, I got to get on with life and I'm hungry
It's been fun, thanks for the interactions.

I love you guys, all of you





[edit on 24-8-2009 by ANTHONY33]

Originally posted by ANTHONY33

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by breakingdradles

Seems to me he nailed her right on...wrong phony analogy to pull on a Jew. Serves her right, IMHO.

That's like saying its ok for Israel to kill Muslims because they are Jewish.

It's nothing even close to that, and you should know it. Validating someone's speech on the basis of their ethnicity isn't even close to validating killing anyone for any reason. One is speech; the other is killing. The two are not the same.

This is part of the point. The Nazis weren't just some guys with a faulty health care plan. They were murderers. They killed people, they didn't just withhold benefits from a few folks. There is a vast difference between what the Nazis did, and what Obama proposes. Even at its worst, even if the accusations of "death panels" were true (which they are not), it wouldn't be the same as actively rounding up homosexuals, Communists, Gypsies, Jews, disabled people, and dissidents, and gassing them deliberately.

Similarly, refusing to reply seriously to a ridiculous, unfounded question is not at all similar to going out and killing people.

You want to talk about Nazis to a Jew, chances are you're going to get an earful. They're still a little touchy about the Holocaust. The Nazis were more than just some guys with unpopular political views.

Barney's reaction was tex book CIA disinformation policy- Ridicule & negative association applied in classic Ad Hominem attack the messanger style. The congressman could have simply asked her to explain why she though that Obamas policies were similar to the German government of the 1930s & 40s.

He could not afford to have anyone remind the public that Hitler and the NAZIs were elected in a democratic election as social reformers

From Wikipedia
Nazism, officially in German as National Socialism[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers to the ideology and practices of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party or NSDAP under Adolf Hitler, and the policies adopted by the dictatorial government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.[5][6][7][8]

Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right.[9] The Nazis were one of several historical groups that used the term National Socialism to describe themselves, and in the 1920s they became the largest such group. The Nazi Party presented its program in the 25 point National Socialist Program in 1920. Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism,[10][11] eugenics, antisemitism, anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism.[11][12][13]


This is what the woman was speaking about when she compared the current health care reform to the policies of the NAZIs :


Dr. Ezekiel Emanual, Healthcare Policy advisor to president Obama.


"... Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed.

Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future genera- tions, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. ... Read More

Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason."

Originally posted by NWRHINO
This is what the woman was speaking about when she compared the current health care reform to the policies of the NAZIs :
Dr. Ezekiel Emanual, Healthcare Policy advisor to president Obama.


"... Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed.

Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future genera- tions, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. ... Read More

Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason."

Mmmm...something yoinked out of context from an academic paper some 13 years ago. Do you think she read it, or is she simply drinking the Koolaid? I submit:

Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's 'Deadly Doctor,' Strikes Back
The attacks on Emanuel are a reminder that there is a narrow slice of Americans who not only don't trust government, but also have come to regard it as a dark conspirator in their lives....
This is where the criticism of Emanuel enters the picture, since he is just the sort of scientist who might be appointed to one of those panels. For decades, Emanuel has studied the ethics of medical care, especially in situations where a scarcity of resources requires hard decisions to be made. His work sometimes deals with the hardest possible decisions, like how to choose who gets a single kidney if there are three patients in need, or the reasons that doctors order tests with little medical value. Emanuel's reputation ranks him among the top members of his field. He is published often in the best journals; he has been given multiple awards for work to improve end-of-life care. news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
[Mmmm...something yoinked out of context from an academic paper some 13 years ago. Do you think she read it, or is she simply drinking the Koolaid? I submit:

Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's 'Deadly Doctor,' Strikes Back
The attacks on Emanuel are a reminder that there is a narrow slice of Americans who not only don't trust government, but also have come to regard it as a dark conspirator in their lives....

Kudos for using the word "yoinked" !

I agree that this woman could be a Kool Aid drinking automoton, programmed to carry forth an agenda.

However, I do not understand how an acedemic paper written by Dr Emanuel can be "taken out of context". These are his written words regardless of the date it was created, until he can refute his own written word, then it can logically be inferred he still is of this mind set

Dr Emanuels 1996 Hastings report - Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet

One of the great things about freedom is that you do not have to trust your government, which is made of failable people.

What is the point of having a constitution that protects a free peoples right to express themselves to their elected representatives, if the representatives will not address the people's expression of concern

He could have just said, No your wrong about this issue.

Frank instead denied this woman of her right to express herself by condeming her for even asking her question

Even if this woman is wrong or deluded she is entitled to her opinion

The 1st Amendement is not suspended because of an unpopular opinion or because a person mentions Nazis to a person of Barney Franks ethnic background

Originally posted by NWRHINO
Frank instead denied this woman of her right to express herself by condeming her for even asking her question
Even if this woman is wrong or deluded she is entitled to her opinion
The 1st Amendement is not suspended because of an unpopular opinion or because a person mentions Nazis to a person of Barney Franks ethnic background

ANYBODY who trivializes Nazism to a Jew...a gay Jew at that...or further, equates Frank's efforts to get a national health care system in the US with the actions of Hitler, is a total arse and is not worthy of engagement.

Anyone who does not get it now, will ever get it. End of story. End of conversation.

The ole Nazi card.

Republicans pull it on Democrats. And Democrats pull it on Republicans.

What the Nazis did was against man and God. Unless your knowledge of Nazism and WWII goes beyond the high school history books and Hollywood movies, it's best to hold the Nazi card close to your chest.

It's a big card to play. It looks ridiculous when it's put on the table by someone who is less the scholar on the subject.

I'm no fan of Barney Frank either. He's a wind bag to the extreme.

This is what happens when two idiots try to have a meeting of the minds.

People need to stop confusing the Nazi era with pop culture. It's disgusting.

Let me quote the late, dancing great Michael Jackson, "That's ignorant."

It's okay to chuckle. What happens at ATS stays at ATS. And tht's to bad.