Errors in Christianity/Christians

you're lost

this isn't a religious message board nor is it an american one. The owner is based in Britain.

helen, I never stated the link between trinity and rosicrucianism was accurate, but knowing what I know of both they are nearly hand and glove. Catholicism coming before Rosicrucianism of course.

I put in no "hateful" words.

And for your information, "Christianity" disgusted me so badly as what it made God into, it was one reason I became an atheist for 10 years.

During which time I redeveloped my ideas of life and spirituality, and through logic determined one truth. We have an "immortal soul//existance", and whether or not that carries with us a personality or not, can't be answered, if we are reincarnated, ressurected, that can't be answered. But what can be known for certain, simply through understanding the nature of "Existance//non-existnace" through reasoning (what makes us different from animals), is that we do have an "individuality" that is not physical, and I feel this individuality is the TRUE us, not our bodies and minds, and when we die that individuality "possesses a new-born life" and we are born again.

I virtually made up my own religion, finally coming to the conclusion after all, that there really is a God.

And the purpose of life is to experience this "universe" that "he" created. For without anything that exists to experience the stuff that doesn't exist "rocks, earth, the sun" things that only exist when we see them and know them, without us and aliens or life what have you, these things don't "exist".

And I also fear that MAYBE, just MAYBE, if we live lives of suffering, and cause others to suffer, that we will lose that individuality, that seperates us from "God".

And I don't believe that becoming a part of "God" or what I called the "Great conciousness" is really a good thing.

I like my individuality, and I want to keep it through out eternity.

Which is kind of why I'm sad that so many people do cause suffering in this world, my odds of being reborn in such a life is good, and I may lose my individuality through no fault of myself, but only through the fault of my mortal body. Because there will be no one else to teach me that you must be good, and to be true and such.

But then there IS Freemasonry, hopefully in my next life I'll seek it out again

But note, I only believe in ONE truth. That there is a "soul//existance//individuality" and my soul is not yours. Other than that, I can explain nothing, just like you can't.

Do we go to heaven when we die? Maybe, do we live again? Maybe, are we never born again, do we just float as a ghost, a memory for eternity? Maybe.

That can not be answered.

But through logic, and reason, what can be answered, is that when you die, you do not just "cease to exist.".

That is more or less my religion. No religion on earth, not even buddhism supports it, so it is kind of sad, that my way of life is not known by anyone else, I don't have 1billion people who believe exactly what I believe. But it's ok. I figure maybe later on in life, I will tell someone, and they'll learn that there is one truth, that can't really be debated, but all else can be debated.

Even though I have no WISH what-so-ever to do so, I wish that somehow, all that I have thought about life and the soul, would be written down, in a book that would never change, and then all the debate and discussions it sparks, would be written down, so that wise sages could teach the myriad of views my way of thinking allows, rather than the solid and dogmatic stuff that most other religions preach.

But you know...this doesn't mean I'm going to go out and "convert" everyone who doesn't think my way.

Anyways...my interests are not in creating a religion. I would like to see people be incouraged to make up their own minds, and not so much be born into a religion, and Masonry actually has done that, though in a different way I suppose.

It's almost like I was meant to be a Mason

Too bad I don't often act very masonically on this board, but maybe it's because no one knows who I am, and so I am free to giving way to anger, because I'm "Annonymous", and so there's not really much to stop it.

Anyways, I hope my views of life spark a question in your mind.

I won't say what you believe is wrong, or persecute you for your beliefs, but I would say I personally feel it dangerous to believe you KNOW the right answer, to what happens to our "existance" when we die.

Also I would like to further say this.

Religion in general, all relgions, their largest mistake is they write down discussions, debate stuff for a few hundred years, and then all of a sudden they stop, write what was debated about for the past few hundred years in stone, and say that THAT IS IT, nothing else is the truth.

Had they only debated it eternally.

Can you imagine how much different, and enlightend (this is of course my opinion), but just imagine, how different and how enlightened would Christianity be if instead of writing a few thousand pages and then saying that that is it, the word of god, this is the only path. How different would they be if they kept going, and all the major discussions of life and religion, were written down in massive tomes, not to be fed to you in its entireity, but to be sought out by the individual, for him to learn at his own free will and interest. To see what all the great sages before him had to say, and to see that the same people who believed in his religion, varried greatly in their views on everything about God, life, and the after life.

Imagine that?

Instead of being lectured about the bible. You would simply go to a tome one day, open it up, and read what some philosophers discussed, thousands of years ago. And then you'd be able to go to people who wouldn't even be priests, just guides sages whatever, or other people in general, and just talk about this. And then even more, add your own comment, to be written in the anals of history for all time. Your short life, immortalized by your freewill, for all the future to see if they should ever find, what you felt was going to happen to you when you die.

I think that kind of freedom would be marvellous, and we definately wouldn't have the problems that we have today.

But then that's probably too idealistic, as tomes become so large, they'd of course be categorized, and as that happens people will center themselves on one category and then of course cults would rise around the individual categories and teach ONLY those categories, and presto, you have thousands of religions all hating what the others think.

But you know, if you could get that hypothesis to actually work, it would be a Utopia while it lasts.

utopian maybe but I like the idea. Doesn't that contradict your love of tradition and dislike of change though? You might be surprised to find my ideas on belied are very similar to your own. You say it's almost like you were meant to be a mason - can you maybe understand now why as a woman I feel the fact that my gender almost bars me, a slightly unpalatable fact?

No arc, because I don't think "spirituality" needs to be rooted in tradition. Look at Masonry, it doesn't preach any religion or any belief system really. It teaches you tenets that should never have been associated with religion (in my opinion never should have).

Those are, morality, and honor and such.

The Bible, is a great book of morals, as are many of the books of many religions, Koran and such, but I just personally think that religion isn't about morals.

Do you think your views of what happens to you when you die, really makes a difference to whether or not you are going to murder someone or steal?

Do you really think the theif says "Wait, I'm going to go to hell for this".

Morals are taught better by society in my opinion, and better by tradition, than by religion

Ohhh perfect example.

Picture the ancient Greek philosophers, just because they debated religion, god and how the universe worked, does not mean that they didn't have steep traditional values.

Greek traditions prevailed through their discussions, because traditions are in society, and while yes religions can make up society, they don't have to

(Example, America).

And else where I mention America is losing tradition, this isn't because it isn't theocratic or not religious enough, it's some other phenomena that came about in the 60s, and hasn't gone away since.

Oh I never said I didn't understand your "feeling to be a mason" I just don't want women in "masonry". However though maybe in England it is drastically different how women are treated with masonry.

Here especially with this year's WM, we are encouraged to go to all the other stuff, De Molay, Job's Daughters, I guess OES too though I've not ever been to one of their meetings yet And really women here are every bit a part of Masonry though they don't get to sit in the lodges and usually don't come to the communications, though during the stated a few of the wives come eat the dinner before we get things started

Eh...I hate to be unfair but in my mind it's unreasonable to admit women into a fraternity

And likewise in my mind it's just as good to simply be fully involved, that you don't necissarily need to BE a mason, to actually "be" a mason? Eh...maybe I find myself not caring as much as I think I do, and would be content either way it goes.

I don't think however I'd be the one to cast a white ball, but maybe as I grow older I'll think the all male aspect of masonry, isn't what defines masonry at all. But right now every little bit of it defines it even the "all male" exlusivity.

Originally posted by arc
you're lost

this isn't a religious message board nor is it an american one. The owner is based in Britain.

And as for you MISS Arc...............THIS IS, A RELIGIOUS MESSAGE BOARD!!!(last i looked)scroll UP.........yep

also dont go critisizing others ,thinking that you know so much!!!

As for the owner of this message board ""based in Britain"" WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

No I think she means that the whole FORUMS isn't a religious forum, it seems ToothFairy has posted only religious stuff anywhere (not sure I thought I saw that...oh well).

As for based in britain it means just that, the guy "Simon" lives in what...Scotland or such?

Originally posted by helen
And as for you MISS Arc...............THIS IS, A RELIGIOUS MESSAGE BOARD!!!(last i looked)scroll UP.........yep

also dont go critisizing others ,thinking that you know so much!!!

As for the owner of this message board ""based in Britain"" WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

maybe if you actually read ALL of Tooth Fairy's posts, you might start to understand my comment. I don't claim to know everything at all, but I sure have a problem with people who come on here and answer virtually every post with 'jesus loves you, islam is evil, all unbelievers must die' .

Apology to Ark............sorry for that .........

and that bit .Miss Arc........


many people make mistakes and im sure Toothfairy? did not mean what he said.........i guess when someone is agro he/she sais things to release that anger........

Christianity is not about killing and revenge, and i'm sure that Toothfairy did not mean what he said........

i guess anger is top priority............. of ones expression to what really needs to be said.......im sure Tooth fairy does not want all that he said........(im not making excuses for him)

Out of anger ,we hurt people without really knowing what was said......and i beleive that Toothfairy was just a bit angry of how to put his thought across.........


AS for me , i beleive that all people do have in their own right to choose the path they want........you meet many chalanges along the way...........................


heres a link to a nice song........

www.andiesisle.com...


www.andiesisle.com...



[Edited on 15-3-2003 by helen]

thats ok helen, I guess my remark did read a little harsh if not viewed in context of Tooth Fairy's other posts. My problem was not with them allegedly being a Christian, more with their attitude towards others. Anyhow I don't think they will be back now! Nice link btw - some good advice there

just

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
BCoffy, I fear your ignorance of the Bible has come into view. You might want to tuck it back in so that those who have knowledge won't see the glaring slip showing.

lol

everyone should just calm down.

Dude you must be getting your info from the dark side of Christianity , just like most religions there are the miscommunicated and misunderstood , most of what you stae is so off base it would take to long to explain , but you know that is your opinion and I respect that and in that you have my respect for your post, and my respect for trying to make things right when you knew you were wrong IE the TOS issue

Cheers Dude
most refuse to do what you did , atleast someone should acknowledge it and I do. Now a brief quip , DONT GO AWAY MAD , JUST GO AWAY ,,,,,,,ha just kidding hope to see you around I am interested in every ones thoughts see you out in the muck that is every mans opinion oh and women sorry gals.

I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but here goes...

This is just one of the errors that I have found in the Bible.

Genesis 11:1 "Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."

I could not find a date to this, but I know it was after the flood, which I also could not find a date for. But, at the earliest, this would have been around 2500 BC.

Obviously, there were people in various parts of the world with different languages. Just more proof that the Bible is not the word of God.

Originally posted by BCoffy
That being said.. let me begin.

You are wrong in all topics. Read on.

Christians believe in one God in 3 forms, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit. "The Trinity".

They believe all 3 forms are *equal*.

Error:
They cannot be equal, and the why is very simple. God, the Father, created Jesus, the son. This automatically shows one being more powerful than the other. In other words, not equal. Where was the "Trinity" before Jesus was born? There was no son, there was the Father, and the Holy Ghost. What is it then? A "twoinity"? The holy ghost is something they say we all have inside of us. It is equal to God? Sick.

Wrong!

The dogma actually says that the Holy Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and that the trinity is made out of the same substance, and inseparable (in original Greek: ΑΓΙΑ ΤΡΙΑΣ ΕΣΤΙ ΟΜΟΟΥΣΙΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΔΙΑΙΡΕΤΟΣ). But it does not say that God equals Jesus equals Holy Spirit.

They believe Jesus Christ is God in human form.

Error:
Wrong. Jesus couldn't answer the question of Judgment Day. His answer was "The only one who knows about the last day on earth, is my father, in heaven.". This once again shows christians that Jesus is not equal to God. Yet when you ask a christian what he believes in, 99.9% of the time, the answer will be, "I believe in Jesus Christ.". This is disrespect towards God.

Nope...to say that Jesus was God in human form would be a blasphemy. Those who say it do not know the dogma well. Jesus is a instantiation of the ideal man, as proposed by God. That's the reason Jesus is considered as 'Son of God'.

Jesus himself told that everything he does was 'in the name of God'. So it was God that actually did the miracles. Jesus was the middle-man...the role model, if you like.

The quote 'I believe in Jesus Christ' means 'I am a Christian'. It does not mean 'I do not believe in God'. All prayers of Church are towards God. The basic prayer we are tought in school is 'dear God...'...so where is the disrespect?

They believe God is omnipotent (all powerful) and that Jesus Christ died for our sins.

Error:
They contradict themselves. Please lookup "omnipotence.". God being all powerful, he does not need to sacrifice/inflict pain upon his only son to rid humanity (his own creation), of sin. This is a huge contradiction. Even the bible says that when Jesus was on the cross, he looked up and said "Oh my God, why have you forsaken me?". They say he knew exactly what his purpose was, but that question alone is yet another contradiction.

First of all, God did not said 'Oh my God, why have you forsaken me?' while on the cross; Jesus said that while on the Mountain of Olives.

Secondly, God can, anytime, destroy all of his creations, including Devil himself. But he does not do that: he let's you choose the way you want to live.

Should a father do everything for his child? or should a father let his child live his/her own life, and occasionally guide him/her? God has not put you on tracks...you have freedom of choice.

They believe because Jesus died for your sins, if you're really sorry about a sin you committed, *Jesus* (not God once again), will forgive you, because he loves humanity.

Not at all! Jesus himself says that 'forgiveness is from God, not from me': 'I forgive you in the name of God, with the powers given to me by God'. Every priest can do that.

Error:
I go out and murder my neighbor's child. Then later I sit down and think about what I've done, I become really sorry for the sin I commited, and *Jesus* forgives me, because he really loves humanity. Hold up! He forgives me but forsakes the parent who's child I've just slaughtered. Another contradiction.

No! God looks in your soul! you may say you are sorry, and if you don't really feel sorry, then the doors of heaven are closed for you! But if you really admit to the principles of being good, through the mysteries of Church, then God will not hold a grudge against you. So what if you comitted a mistake? should you be eternally punished for it?

They believe that Jesus is the son of God and God at the same time.

Error:
God always existed, Jesus didn't. Jesus was born through the virgin Mary. Another contradiction. Yet every christian will say "JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR ONLY WAY TO PARADISE." instead of saying God. So much for respect.

No, you are in error again! Jesus was the way of God to guide humans on how to save themselves! And when one says 'Jesus is our only way to paradise', they mean the teachings of Jesus, i.e. Christianity, not Jesus himself!

They believe they follow christ's teachings.

Error:
Judging others, bashing other religions (cough cough, you know who you are), masturbation, eating pork (yes, its forbidden, read the bible from the beginning to the end, its there, yes the BIBLE), and tons of others. 90% are sinners. But wait, Jesus died for our sins, so we will be forgiven.

Judging others only makes you feel bad. Try for one day to live without critizing others! you will see how peaceful you will live inside!

As for sins of the Bible, Jesus tells us that 'the Old Testament is no more, and the world of God is the new Testament'...which does not have any specific reference to eating pork and all that BS thrown in the Old Testament (yes, the Bible is a holy book written by man! it is holy in the sense that it contains the word of God, but man has put his own views in it, as well! and the reason for this is that God let's you free: you can hack and slash your way in life, but, boy, be prepared for the consequences...)

Last but not least, there are those who believe that Christianity is the purest religion that exists in this world, and that Islam is the ultimate evil. Those who get every piece of information about Islam from anti-islamic sites (yes you know who you are). Thou shalt not lie.

Well, true Christians do not bash others. But you should not blame Christianity for the errors of Christians.

Maybe sooner or later they will realise that they live in a christian country that has more blood on their hands than any other.

All countries have blood in their hands! crusades, anyone? WWII? Stalin? Byzantium? what do you prefer?

Originally posted by truthseeka
Genesis 11:1 "Now the whole world had one language and a common speech."

I could not find a date to this, but I know it was after the flood, which I also could not find a date for. But, at the earliest, this would have been around 2500 BC.

Obviously, there were people in various parts of the world with different languages. Just more proof that the Bible is not the word of God.

Everyone could trace thier ancestory to Noah and his family. Also just because Babel was destroyed does not mean he only affected those that built the tower. It just says taht he changed the language at that point

if you read a bit further (Taking things out of context is the oldest trick for debunking the bible, please stop doing it and makign a fool of yourself)

But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Also just because Babel was destroyed does not mean he only affected those that built the tower. It just says taht he changed the language at that point

if you read a bit further (Taking things out of context is the oldest trick for debunking the bible, please stop doing it and makign a fool of yourself)

And for trying to prove it as well.

But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.

The question was quite valid, and your answer an excuse.

The Babel verse was a simplistic attempt at explaining different languages, and reeks of being a later addition. This event takes place after Noah and his kids leave the ark and commence their lives. It is interrupted in Biblical passage only by the genealogy of Noah's progeny. The specific Babel text simply states "they" journeyed from the east and decided to build a tower while neglecting to provide a time frame.

Logically then, the reader has to review the words in the genealogy and note it claims; "every one after his tongue, his family and nations." Hence, it has to be concluded that the move from the east and the attempt to build the tower was before "they" each had their own tongues and nations, which leaves us with it being Noah and his progeny moving east.

Then we have the less than flowing reason for the language issue itself as it suggests because they built this tower "they" had to be dispersed. Now that must be one impotent God, because he surely could not forsee the future towers as opposed to some zigurrats, and the no language barrier issue of today.

But the most telling aspect of the ridiculousness of the verse if you wish to claim the genealogy was but an intro, is that 11:7 specifically states: "that they may not understand one another's speech." This implies every single person, and to accept that the progeny of Noah multiplied, and as such each confounded person managed to group themselves together, is nothing short of ludicrous. This implies that God decided to hand out languages according to the descendents of each of Noah's sons and they still managed to find and understand each other and the other nations.

Not a well thought out plan I say.

[edit on 3/1/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Thw word atheism really means "against God", if you don't believe in God why do you call yourself an atheist. Don't the truly understanding say they are agnostic. Wouldn't an atheist be on the exact opposite spectrum of christianity, therefore atheism is just another form of worship, say self-worth, self-loathing, pride, arrogance in thinking you can possibly tell yourself you KNOW there is no God.This is absurd and just as riudiculous as a believer in God practicing satanism. Go figure.