U.S. Marine Stands Up for Our Rights Against Congressman – video

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by pavil

 

Sorry there is no context here - what so ever - further my issues are with those using Nazism as an issue - where does this guy use Nazism ? He doesn't in fact THE ONLY point at which it is raised is by you becuase he HAPPENS TO HAVE A BROWN T_SHIRT ON - seriously you are simply backing up my arguments here.

Don't address the meat of the subject (The people ACTUALLY using physical attacks on others for their political views) instead focus of the color of the shirt. Dude, I made the comment about the shirt in semi-mocking tone (though it IS kinda ironic), sorry it didn't go over that way with you, but you keep focusing on that aspect instead of the real issue.

As for a tactic, I'd say spitting in someone's face, kicking them in the groin, and trying to intimidate them quite probably would have been among the tactics used by the Brownshirts. Like they say.... if the shoe fits.

And there is "no context" even when you see other video with people with SEIU shirts causing havok. Yes, I am aware you probably didn't look at the other links. You can't put two and two together on your side but you totally can identify the motives of the other side? That's curious to me.



[edit on 25-8-2009 by pavil]

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by pavil

 

Sorry there is no context here - what so ever - further my issues are with those using Nazism as an issue - where does this guy use Nazism ? He doesn't in fact THE ONLY point at which it is raised is by you becuase he HAPPENS TO HAVE A BROWN T_SHIRT ON - seriously you are simply backing up my arguments here.

Don't address the meat of the subject (The people ACTUALLY using physical attacks on others for their political views) instead focus of the color of the shirt. Dude, I made the comment about the shirt in semi-mocking tone (though it IS kinda ironic), sorry it didn't go over that way with you, but you keep focusing on that aspect instead of the real issue.

As for a tactic, I'd say spitting in someone's face, kicking them in the groin, and trying to intimidate them quite probably would have been among the tactics used by the Brownshirts. Like they say.... if the shoe fits.

And there is "no context" even when you see other video with people with SEIU shirts causing havok. Yes, I am aware you probably didn't look at the other links. You can't put two and two together on your side but you totally can identify the motives of the other side? That's curious to me.



[edit on 25-8-2009 by pavil]

Once more - you have identified a single protester acting badly - the media is literally inundated with hundreds of thousands of right wing protesters doing this - pointing out ONE Obama protester does not make what the right wing is doing in any way acceptable.

Further the right wing is EXPLICITLY conflating Nazism with Obamas policies - this is the issue - not whether people are behaving inappropriately at gatherings - it is about deliberately spreading DISINFORMATION - that is the issue at hand - you posts and line of argument are totally out of synch with the issues at hand in the nation.

Get with the debate mate.

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

In fact you freely admit to trying to create an environment of propaganda and fear based on lies and disinformation - so you absolutely agree with me that you have an agenda and it is based on spurious ideas, disingenuous information and totally lacks verisimilitude.

I must have missed something there.....where did he admit any of that? You certainly talk in a lot of absolutes, but I do like the use of the word verisimilitude.

reply to post by audas


Sure if you count standing up in outrage and demanding answers as destabilizing, but thats not the point. They have every right to stand up in outrage and question whats going on in their country, especially when the government isnt being held accountable and isnt answering the questions, and is instead running adds demeaning them and downplaying what is really going on.

AND THEN the addition of having the SEIU and the other organizations that i listed, come to these places and get PHYSICAL with these people.

Im addressing your claims directly to the poster that was talking about the government and Obama running this country like a Facist and yes naziesque manner.

So you you can sit there and fling mud, and call these people crackpots, but for the videos YOU post of these people being NON VIOLENT in these protest, however vocal, how bout I post videos of these people from the groups i referenced above being bussed in to quiet them? Or how bout the videos of them instigating physical altercations?

Once again, your argument does NOT stand.

I provided you with the definition of Nazism and Facist.

Do some research into how the president and this administration is connected with ACORN, SEIU, the Labor Unions etc etc etc, and then look at the videos of these people being bussed in to these places to stir the pot.

If its not clear to you after you have done your research, you are either completely numb to the facts, or so one sided in your bias that you cannot connect the dots that are so clear the a growing majority of Americans.

The tactics by the administration to do paid commercials to discredit these people at town halls (slanted, non fact based ill add, see propaganda), and the mass emails, and the trucking in of these groups to town hall meetings to use strong arm tactics against these people, to cause more trouble and to silence them IS NAZISM and it IS fascist by the PURE definition of the word.

reply to post by audas


Hah , i was referring to the ONE video that you were bashing that other fellow on, if you want links to the videos of these people associated with the administration coming in and starting trouble ill be glad to oblige you, or you can google it yourself.....


2. Once again do you not know what the definition of fascism is? I posted it?
Did they not start a huge take over of banks? Did they not take over the automotive industry, and are they not running roughshod over that right now? (see cash for clunkers) are they not ALSO trying to take over the health industry?

Its pretty clear why people would be comparing whats going on to a fascist , nazi regime....

fascism is just socialism with a capitalist veneer

Once again.....ill post this again for you here so that you can see why they would draw that conclusion.....

Fascism.
: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism

hmm complete power.......hes putting in all these czars that only have to answer to him.....arent elected and dont have to go through ANY of the proper channels to exert their control in the areas he elected them to. WEIRD HUH!

Oh ya, the Nazis.......were fascist.....

reply to post by pavil



Gee I don't know where said THIS :

Nazism? lol how bout you look up my post on the definition of Nazi, and that will lead you to fascism That will in turn make it pretty clear. You have a group like the ones associated with the president (The Unions,Acorn, SEIU etc etc etc), using brute force to silence the protesters and town hall meetings, guess what that is?

I think that is pretty clear what the Agenda is there - Bernaise at his finest.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


No it is not - it is called the executive arm of government - that is the power of the executive - every president that has ever been has had this right - why is it that now the same thing which ALL other presidents have enjoyed, the very backbone of your democracy is now fascism - when did the very same thing change ?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!

Thanks for the attempted lesson though - I think I will take me Masters in Political Theory and Masters in International Relations from one of the worlds leading universities over your crackpot ideas - but thanks for trying to enlighten me with your wiki searches - awesome - I mean the thousand or so books sitting on my shelf wouldn't be a pinch on your "thread" - nor the years of academic research into this kind of stuff - your a real winner there champ.

So you know - I have no affiliation with either party, I am not an American, I am a student of International Politics - I am offering impartial views on things - hard to argue with someone like myself who is clearly WITHOUT BIAS buddy - just makes you look stupid.

reply to post by audas


My agenda? My agenda is to make it pretty clear that what your talking about is BUNK.

I back up my statements with facts, and definitions, its no secret what the government has done so far, and what the definitions of Fascism and Nazism is........

you want to talk about spreading propaganda.....youve repeatedly said in your post that its all these rightwingers, are you not aware that there are just as many outraged democrats and independents at these town halls that are just as outraged and just as involved?

Now you tell me whose agenda is showing?

If you can disprove ANYTHING that ive stated so far then be my guest.
Consider that a challenge

Originally posted by audas
Once more - you have identified a single protester acting badly - the media is literally inundated with hundreds of thousands of right wing protesters doing this - pointing out ONE Obama protester does not make what the right wing is doing in any way acceptable.

Further the right wing is EXPLICITLY conflating Nazism with Obamas policies - this is the issue - not whether people are behaving inappropriately at gatherings - it is about deliberately spreading DISINFORMATION - that is the issue at hand - you posts and line of argument are totally out of synch with the issues at hand in the nation.

Get with the debate mate.

This is getting rather pointless.

So now you admit these "right wing loonies" number in the hundreds of thousands yet they are fringe people? To me that sounds like a substantial number of people. You seem willing to dismiss them even though you yourself acknowledge they are numerous. You conveniently group all who oppose you into one single crazy mass. Painting a large diverse group with one broad brush, hmmmmm.

BTW, I showed some other people being physically violent at these rallies, not just one person as you claim. Which side has used ACTUAL PHYSICAL violence against the other more? Please answer that question. Screaming, signs and words are one thing, punching, kicking, spitting on and threatening are another.

It's pretty easy to duck behind the "we don't really know they are supporting Obama" cover, when it is obvious they are instigating violence against the "right wing" protesters. It doesn't take much a stretch to figure out which side they are more in line with. You are minimizing the "innappropriate behavior" which includes, spitting, kicking in the groin, shoving cameras and beating up and intimidating people. I have not stated that all Obama supporters are using physical violence against opponents, just that some (namely SEIU people) are. You can't even think that is possible/probable?

You yourself brought up the brownshirt analogy, yet you try to turn it on me when I actually show such "brownshirt" tactics being used and you can't can't even call them that. Behaving inappropriately, nice euphemism there.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

In fact you freely admit to trying to create an environment of propaganda and fear based on lies and disinformation - so you absolutely agree with me that you have an agenda and it is based on spurious ideas, disingenuous information and totally lacks verisimilitude.

I must have missed something there.....where did he admit any of that? You certainly talk in a lot of absolutes, but I do like the use of the word verisimilitude.

I forgot to thank you - it is one of my favourites - I like to use it in conjunction with feckless - although I do have to make sure I do not interchange it with another favourite - vicissitudes - they work well together - vicissitudonal verisimilitude. Both of which are apt here....

reply to post by audas


because no other president in the history of the U.S has elected this many czars to oversee EVERY AREA of the American private industry, who are accountable only to HIM.

How can you NOT see this?

For someone with all those certifications , im puzzled that you can deny what is so clear to so many people? It seems to me that you should know the ear marks of a society slipping into a fascist cycle.

So personally, I dont care what degrees you have, ive proven my point, and I think maybe its time you go back to school and learn a little more.

Not only that, you have NO idea what kind of schooling I have or what research I have done,nor how many books are in my library, so that assumption alone is very telling.

Im also aware of where you are from, that still doesnt mean that you arent biased.

In fact if you ARENT biased, then I would have to say, that faced with all the information that is out on this administration, and who they are associated with, and who they endorse and who has endorsed them, AND the background on these "czars", the fact that you can come to the conclusion that this isnt dangerously close to the same play style as a fascist playbook with your "degrees and knowledge", leads me to believe that perhaps its just ignorance of the situation.

Resulting to attacking me after ive made my points just weakens your argument.......

But never one to let down...heres one of my own

Your arrogance is surpassed only by your lack of tact and decorum.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]

Originally posted by audas
reply to post by pavil

 

Gee I don't know where said THIS :

Nazism? lol how bout you look up my post on the definition of Nazi, and that will lead you to fascism That will in turn make it pretty clear. You have a group like the ones associated with the president (The Unions,Acorn, SEIU etc etc etc), using brute force to silence the protesters and town hall meetings, guess what that is?

I just don't see how that fits, sorry. Unions, Acorn and the SEIU are all, for the most part pro-Obama groups. Nazi's were just kind of Uber fascists, they share many traits. Some of those pro-Obama groups, namely the SEIU, have been documented using physical violence towards town hall protesters.

I don't get how you think that fits

... you freely admit to trying to create an environment of propaganda and fear based on lies and disinformation - so you absolutely agree with me that you have an agenda and it is based on spurious ideas, disingenuous information and totally lacks verisimilitude.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by pavil I hate nested quotes]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by pavil]

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by audas
Once more - you have identified a single protester acting badly - the media is literally inundated with hundreds of thousands of right wing protesters doing this - pointing out ONE Obama protester does not make what the right wing is doing in any way acceptable.

Further the right wing is EXPLICITLY conflating Nazism with Obamas policies - this is the issue - not whether people are behaving inappropriately at gatherings - it is about deliberately spreading DISINFORMATION - that is the issue at hand - you posts and line of argument are totally out of synch with the issues at hand in the nation.

Get with the debate mate.

This is getting rather pointless.

So now you admit these "right wing loonies" number in the hundreds of thousands yet they are fringe people? To me that sounds like a substantial number of people. You seem willing to dismiss them even though you yourself acknowledge they are numerous. You conveniently group all who oppose you into one single crazy mass. Painting a large diverse group with one broad brush, hmmmmm.

BTW, I showed some other people being physically violent at these rallies, not just one person as you claim. Which side has used ACTUAL PHYSICAL violence against the other more? Please answer that question. Screaming, signs and words are one thing, punching, kicking, spitting on and threatening are another.

It's pretty easy to duck behind the "we don't really know they are supporting Obama" cover, when it is obvious they are instigating violence against the "right wing" protesters. It doesn't take much a stretch to figure out which side they are more in line with. You are minimizing the "innappropriate behavior" which includes, spitting, kicking in the groin, shoving cameras and beating up and intimidating people. I have not stated that all Obama supporters are using physical violence against opponents, just that some (namely SEIU people) are. You can't even think that is possible/probable?

You yourself brought up the brownshirt analogy, yet you try to turn it on me when I actually show such "brownshirt" tactics being used and you can't can't even call them that. Behaving inappropriately, nice euphemism there.

This is the last time - you are becoming garrulous- so here is my point again -

It was the right wing propagandists who initiated the Nazism conflation - ok - the RIGHT - the person in the VIDEO relates the issue of Brown Shirts AND NAZISM - my entire point is that there should be NO DISCUSSION OF NAZISM - NONE - it is absurd in the extreme.

You have raised the issue of Obama supporters behaving badly - I dont want to see anyone behaving badly - it is abhorrent to the issue - however that is not germane. Violent behaviour at rallies is - another issue - we are discussing deliberate misinformation aimed at scaremongering people into thinking that Obama is a Nazi, that his politics is Nazism etc - it is simply a lie and designed to destroy debate - simple. Build a fence.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


You do not understand the reality of fascism - your country has been a trully fascist nation for decades - your conflating of Obama with Mussolini is puerile tactic of almost no consequence, I also understand that my summation of you is entirely correct as you grasp of the issues is utterly diaphanous at the very best - my assumptions would need only be justified by the breif moment it will take you to look inside yourself and know that I speak the truth - it is only a matter of personal honesty and you could then admit that you know nothing of these issues in any serious form beyond the internet, trivial media, maybe the odd documentary and tv - how about being honest for once in your life ?

reply to post by audas


You are the one who brought up the Nazi stuff that got me replying, by claiming the protesters were using brownshirt tactics/methods.

Let's just agree to disagree. I still like your vocabulary, nice job.

reply to post by audas


once again, they arent right wingers, they are democrats, republicans, conservatives , libertarians, and independents.......your accusations that its right wing nut jobs is disinformation in itself.....

second, you are totally missing the point that drawing the correlation between what this administration is doing and what happens in a fascist regime isnt far fetched considering what is happening in this country....

Want disinfo?

Obamas staged Town halls

Obama more disinfo

Whitehouse disinfo ad

Add released about townhalls slanderizing and marginalizing , not to mention NOT ACCURATE


So tell me, who is full of propaganda and pushing that agenda?
Who is trying to silence the outraged people?

Your argument sir........does not stand

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by mental modulator

 

That's right don't answer the question I posed.

Audas was the one who mentioned the Brownshirts, first not me.

FYI the Brownshirts didn't make it the extermination years, they were sacrificed for the good of the Nazi Party, Hitler didn't like rivals very much. Night of the Long Knives


[edit on 24-8-2009 by pavil]

The man represents a pissed off portion of society, who is tired of being compared to nazi's and is brave enough to call the bluff on these veiled threats of violence, carrying in a heavily populated area... Certainly looked like a heavy to me and the other fellow was packing so, was the armed guy not a HEAVY for his cause? Are you saying only one side gets to strategize, express rage or general macho displays. I suppose this gives your cause the moral imperative?

They were killed as a display of absolute power BTW...

reply to post by audas

Its absolutely of consequence considering the fact that the same road and mile markers that define fascism are being taken AT SPEED by this administration.

As far as being a fascist country, lol id have to say you have no idea what you are talking about, we have never had a dictator for one, and up until recently the government hasnt been taking over the private sector as fast as possible.

Once again, using 5 dollar words, that you think will confuse me, and insulting me wont further your cause.

You dont know me or my background, so using the same assumptions about me that youve used on other boards with other members is futile.

Most people learn really fast when someone starts off by touting their knowledge and their intellect to further their cause, they are either lying or have no leg to stand on.

Since I dont know you, I wont make an assumption on your schooling, if youve accomplished what you say you have, congratulations, thats respectable.

However it has no bearing on this conversation and your inability to put 2 and 2 together, and then personally attacking the people in this board.

Im quite versed in the area of politics and know exactly what im talking about.

You can talk all you want, and you can try and use a pleasant vocabulary to make yourself seem more credible, but that does nothing more than put a golden wrapper on what essentially still a turd.

The facts are the facts, Deny ignorance indeed.

But please, continue with the personal attacks it only drives you further down the ladder of respectability.

reply to post by mental modulator


Umm ok........ Who actually resorted to PHYSICAL VIOLENCE toward one side for their political views? Nice try at justification though, I give you an "A" for effort.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


You keep talking with such authority about issues you have NO IDEA about, this is why you find it so easy to conflate the sheer evil of the NAZIS with whatever you happen ti disagree with - it is the most puerile unintelligent behaviour I can assure you from one educated person to a clear illiterate.

Your association with Nazism is vile, it is repugnant in the most extreme ways, your appropriation of it to further your purposes and propagate your puerile propaganda is utterly repugnant in the extreme - I have dedicated YEARS of my life to understanding this heinous blight on the history of humanity - you have done nothing but usurp the horrors of this time to further your own historically, factually and theoretically ILLITERATE suppositions -

Your words, deeds and associations are outrageous in the most extreme way - utterly contemptible and you ahve no remorse for your vile behaviour - you need to learn some REAL respect for what happened in Nazi Germany, and Poland - as you sure as sht do not seem to understand the pain and suffering this causes people with your reactionary, unflinching willingness, to use these horrors to further your own causes - not only have I studied this for years I have taken the time to TRAVEL to these places - I have been there and stood on the very earth where these people were put to death, I have stood inside the crematoriums and gas chambers, I have travelled to see the concetration camps and death centres - YOU CLEARLY HAVE NOT - otherwise you not be so willing to smear their deaths across the internet in some revolting campaign delivered out of the most SHEER IGNORANCE to better your own personal position - it is utterly contemptable - I have STOOD in the rooms where people were sentenced to death, their autopsies carried out under the Nazi purification regime - the final solution - I have stood in teh very courtyars were millions of people were marched to their deaths - I have seen their hair, I touched their shoes, I have stood in their huts - the smell of sht still hangs in the air - and you simply take one of the greatest of human tradgedies and treat it with almost utter disdain as you liken it to Obamas attempts to provide universal health care - you are simply disgusting.

For you to better eduvate yourself on what NAZISM attempted to achieve - for you to consider what NAZISM REALLY is take a look : I find you ignorant and revolting -

Gypsies put to death in Birkenhao
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2f29234872c8.gif[/atsimg]

Chronic starvation
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a35e9ca577b.gif[/atsimg]

The huts from Birkenao (maybe Berlin)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2b7376c62b65.jpg[/atsimg]

The first attempts at disposing of bodies -
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/718e8265b6a1.jpg[/atsimg]

The is what you are conflating with Obamas policies -
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/677d41e57c38.jpg[/atsimg]

When they were placed into the gas chambers they would climb above one another into great piles to escape the gas from the pellets as they reacted to the air - the weakest at the bottom - I have stood in this very room

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c45c224caba9.jpg[/atsimg]

As this room -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/827dc23a5f69.jpg[/atsimg]

The early methods of NAZISM were crude and ineffective - I have stood in the rooms were people were shot in the back of the head as they pretended to take their picture - a ploy to keep them calm - here there were no such qualms...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ff0868705f26.jpg[/atsimg]

I do not think the marines in this photo would be so willing to describe Nancy or Obama as NAZI's because these MARINES have seen what it really means - UNLIKE YOURSELF
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/47a7dcea9d0e.jpg[/atsimg]


And just in case you get BORED looking at photos here is some video so you can understand what it is you are saying when you call Obama and his cohorts Nazi's




Hopefully NOW you can learn to moderate your language and understand that you simply can not use what ever is at your disposal to win your argument, that there are truths behind the charades you drum up to appease your trifling mind -