Contrail/ Chemtrail Research Thread

reply to post by AllSeeingI

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This idea has been subject to a lot of research in recent years

Stratospheric injections couldhelp cool Earth, computermodel shows

Can we offset global warminging by geoengineering the climate with aerosols?

Stratospheric injections to counter global warming could damage ozone layer

Geoengineering to mitigate global warming may cause other environmental harm

And it's worth bearing in mind that were such action to be taken, we would not see noticeable effects from the ground (were such particles to form visible ice crystals - contrails - then it would obviously have the opposite to the intended effect - see www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by AllSeeingI

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After your edit:

Well the problem here is that you cannot compare US5003186 to Pinatubo.

Here's what the "Pinatubo" paper (1997) says:

www.osti.gov...

Here's what the patent (1991) says:

www.patentstorm.us...

So which is it? Cooling or warming? Which would save the planet? The patent is says that Welsbach materials and certain metal oxides (which sulphur dioxide is not) will cool the planet but that other particulates can actually cause warming. The evidence from Pinatubo shows that non metallic oxide (sulphur dioxide) particulates produce cooling. Doesn't that mean that the theory of the patent is proven wrong? Or is the Pinatubo data flawed? It seems your two sources contradict each other.

Why even bother with the patent?

Normal contrails have the exact same, if not better effect by the albedo from the ice crystals present.

Another thing is if it was in the stratosphere, then we wouldnt exactly be seeing much of an affect anyway. The heights you are talking about are to high for us to see. Contrails occur between 30,000ft and 45,000ft typically depending on weather

Got my own observation today.

Contrail lingering for approximately two hours, we have a cold front approaching to the south, with high cirrus with virga hanging around



Sound flight for this morning indicates a good chance of lingering contrails

I dont know if this has been posted but.

The method of cloud-seeding used by the Chinese involves dosing the atmosphere with silver iodide, a chemical solution either dropped from planes or shot up from the ground. (Other methods use salt or dry ice.) The silver iodide particles supercharge cloud formation, as they act as excellent condensation nuclei. Once clouds form, they also start a positive feedback effect. As droplets freeze and are added to the cloud, they release their heat, creating an updraft which draws additional moisture from the ground into the atmosphere.

news.yahoo.com...

Gonna keep this short, although I'm sure we shall speak more about this, but it is 2 in the morning...


Been in Rio (and surrounding areas) for the last week, not one Chemtrail, nor contrail. I take it you have been using a chembuster?

More likely the air is to dry and not cold enough to sustain contrails. Are you from Brazil or just a tourist there?

Anyway here's the upper air conditions to support my reasoning

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Not a tourist, but not originally from Rio either. My Missus is a Carioca (from Rio), so as well as having lived here most of the last ten years, I have family here and right now, we have family issues to attend to.
I currently reside in Italy, but it is too Fascist and technologically retarded for me (unbelievable Vatican censorship), so I'm moving back here permanently... WooHoo!


Back to the Carioca weather...

Until 3 days ago, it had been mainly wet and damp for 'too long', according to everyone here that I have asked (weather manipulation is dear to my heart).

Lots of rain and much continuous, persistent, nondescript, monotonous, grey cloud-cover/smog, typical of the Chemtrail program. Any days with patches of blue in the morning would quickly be smogged-out, as the cloud cover rolled down from Sumare, the large hill overlooking all of Rio (I'll return to Sumare later in this post).
We have however, had blue sky, without rain, these last few days (so I've put my plans to build another Chembuster on hold... for now).

No, I just haven't seen any Chemtrails, (doesn't mean they haven't been spraying ahead of us) even though at the weekend, we drove several hundred Km's south (where the sky was nice and blue with a variety of scattered Cumulus clouds).



One question I'd like to ask you Mr Oz, is, are you aware of Don Bradley and his work of 'gifting' in California (L.A., San Francisco etc.) from 2002 onwards? For those who don't know, he 'gifted' (distributed free of charge) thousands of small Orgonite devices at all the cellphone antenna in the mentioned area. THIS, (allegedly) cleared the air AND reduced the violence - for which Los Angeles had become shamefully notorious.

Here is a quote from Don Croft (the Godfather of Orgonite devices)...

"Don Bradley almost single-handedly transformed the atmosphere in the Los Angeles Basin within a couple of years. Fortunately, there were a lot of posted reports about the progress and anyone can see, from watching films made in LA in recent years, that it's much, much better there, now"

SOURCE...www.whale.to...

Following on (and rewinding a little), having watched -for many years- the 'smog' being imposed on an unsuspecting, unaware public, I have noticed that this deliberate pollution is nearly always more prevalent and concentrated above urban environments. I travel quite a lot. In the last 20 months I have been to 20 countries and some of them on multiple occasions. I have for example recently driven from Portugal to Turkey, past more cities than I remember and I have witnessed first hand how the 'smog' generally takes hold above the cities (and military areas) much more readily than it does above the open country. I know that sometimes enormous areas are smogged out but the other day, Rio was totalled and as soon as we were out of the city the smog disappeared...(And yes I know cities have smog pollution)

Back to that rewind...

Here in Rio, on top of Sumare are 23 (perhaps more) monstrous towers (Military, TV, Radio, Cellphone etc.). Is it mere 'coincidence' that this is exactly where much of the grey cloud cover seems to originate, before descending down upon us?

Perhaps the only way to truly know, is if 'someone' goes and gifts the Sumare towers.

[edit on 4/11/09 by Mr Magoo]

As the data Oz posted shows, at the normal altitude for commercial air traffic, the air was much too dry for contrails to form. At lower levels it may have been humid enough - even raining - but there, of course, it's too warm ....

There are sound meteorological reasons (understood for decades before the interent appeared) as to why you shouldn't be seeing persistent contrails - though I also wonder how many high altitude flights there are over Rio? I'm sure far less than the UK or much of the USA. So even under perfect conditions you'd probably be unlikely to see the 'contrail haze' we in Europe and N America sometimes suffer.



Odd that. Smog from factories, chimneys and road traffic is more prevalent in urban areas..... LA and Mexico Citiy are in natural basins which help keep the pollution in situ, making such places much worse. In Britain smog was a huge problem until the 1950s after which legislation helped clean our city skies.

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Essan]

No coincidence here

Its a process called orographic lifting which forces air masses and clouds in moutainous areas up. This actually cools the air forcing it to expand and dramatically increase its humidity content, thus creating cloud. Here's an easy to understand link

en.wikipedia.org...

Also, particulates in pollution actually increase the likelihood of rain. The nuclei act as a magnet, attracting water molecules, increasing the size of the water droplet (or ice crystal depending on altitude), creating cloud, and even weather. Cloud seeding works on the same principle, but uses different mechanisms to trigger the growth.

And I have heard of that orgon guy, he is actually a scam artist. He doesnt ever give anything away for free, and I would hardly call "film footage" as proof of his claims.

Sorry, I my proffesional understanding of meteorology just see's this as a money making operation

Hey Oz,

Tons of chem/contrails today over Atlanta, GA. I haven't seen any in the past few weeks/month, but they're criss-crossing the sky like crazy today.

Could you hook me up with the atmospheric conditions for ATL? Is it favorable today for persistent contrails? It was clear blue skies this morning, and now these trails are hanging for hours and spreading out into huge clouds, only to be replaced by more trails which are doing the same.

I appreciate it!

[edit on 14-11-2009 by susp3kt]

reply to post by susp3kt

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Gday mate

Here's ther latest upper air data from Georgia



It certainly is moist and cold enough for contrails to persist in the environment at the moment. It looks friggin cold there too, only 5 degrees celsius at the surface (41F)......here we are expecting our 4th day in a row over 40 degrees celsius (104F)

reply to post by susp3kt

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I also should have mentioned that you have rain and cloud forecast for the next few days too (currently). An abundance of contrails and the persistence of them, is a good (quite accurate) indicator that the atmopshere is becoming moister, which is typical before periods of rain. Also, there is a another balloon flight in the next hour and half which we could compare to see if the atmosphere has changed if you like

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Pretty warm there, huh? It has actually turned into a nice day here, with it currently being 68.8F according to wunderground.com.

I appreciate the fast reply, and I'm going to go back into this thread to pull up the site you linked to previously on understanding the data you're providing.

I'm also planning on doing some time-lapse video of the trails seen here, on days like today that is. It seems like ATL is a hot spot for these trails, as it is with most major metropolises, IF that is, these are not persistent contrails.

Would you be interested in such video?



[edit on 14-11-2009 by susp3kt]

Certainly

A video will give a much clearer visualisation of your observations. Look forward to it