reply to post by at3507
Also from wikipedia:
"John Morrison Birch (May 8, 1918 – August 25, 1945) was an American Military Intelligence Officer and a Baptist Missionary in World War II who was
shot by armed supporters of the Communist Party of China. Some politically conservative groups within the United States consider him to be a martyr
and the first victim of the Cold War. The John Birch Society, formed thirteen years after his death, is named in honor of him. His parents joined the
society as life members."
So, he was the first victim of the Korean War (sic Cold War).
****Mind Blowing 1958 speech (video)****, page 4
privacy
reply posted on 24-8-2009 @ 04:13 PM by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by downtown436
This brings back some memories. My Late Grandmother was a John Bircher and a "Granddaughter of the American Revolution" member along with my Late Great Grandmother.
I remember as a little kid of my Grandmother so passionately echoing these same sentiments and at the time had no idea what they were so passionate about.
I lost my grandmother to early on to learn from her what I should of been learning about that whole time through school, but by the time I was old enough to have a basic understanding having been in middle school by 1986, the education system was already on the fritz and I lost my grandmother only a few years later.
I think the organization went down hill having been infiltrated and subdued after their founder passed away.
I believe these speeches were in 74, the year I was born, so I don't think this is over 50 years old, but still pertinent none the same.
Thanks for posting this. I wholly agree with its message.
Peace
This brings back some memories. My Late Grandmother was a John Bircher and a "Granddaughter of the American Revolution" member along with my Late Great Grandmother.
I remember as a little kid of my Grandmother so passionately echoing these same sentiments and at the time had no idea what they were so passionate about.
I lost my grandmother to early on to learn from her what I should of been learning about that whole time through school, but by the time I was old enough to have a basic understanding having been in middle school by 1986, the education system was already on the fritz and I lost my grandmother only a few years later.
I think the organization went down hill having been infiltrated and subdued after their founder passed away.
I believe these speeches were in 74, the year I was born, so I don't think this is over 50 years old, but still pertinent none the same.
Thanks for posting this. I wholly agree with its message.
Peace
reply posted on 24-8-2009 @ 04:42 PM by letthereaderunderstand
Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by downtown436
Did I hear him right?
In point nine he supports warfare?
So seeking peace above all else is now an evil?
Wow what a twisted world you permabears live in...
On a more serious note... doesn't he look an awful like Ron Paul? Sounds like him too.
WAIT HOLD THE PRESSES...
When did you say this video was released? 1958? really? How does he refer to President Nixon at 5:27 in the video? Nixon wasn't elected until 1969.
Uhm..... ok, so who is the monkeys uncle here?
[edit on 24-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]
Should we make peace with cancer?
You know, throw it the v symbol and walk away far enough to die? If you consider the world is your body, then sometimes you have to cut out what is hurting you and unfortunately that is done with a knife and the spillage of blood.
If you don't perform this painful surgery the cancer claims the peace and freedom you gave to its survival and you end up paying the ultimate cost, but more then you, your children and grand children.
"Freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me"....Team America from the hit song "Freedom costs a buck O'Five" (Gary contemplates blueberrys and veterans)
"Give a little bit, give a lit bit of my life for you......" Supertramp from Breakfast in America
"If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it away from you...."....Jesus (The prince of peace)
Just a some quotes from a few Geniuses with a bonus from the Original Prince (before he was TAFKAP when doves cried)
Ultimately,
Peace
Ultimately the goal is,
reply posted on 24-8-2009 @ 06:30 PM by spiritwomyn
strangemaps.wordpress.com...
This link also shows that all of this is not recent.
A good read and found by accident.
This link also shows that all of this is not recent.
A good read and found by accident.
reply posted on 24-8-2009 @ 08:54 PM by JohnD
reply to post by downtown436
S and F
I remember that very well. Larry McDonald was a member of the JBS and a GA congressman. I was going to high school in GA when this happened and more than one left wing government teacher had outrageous notion to suggest that McDonald planted a bomb on that plane to make himself a martyr. Of course, the facts state otherwise. It did fly in Soviet airspace, it was not authorized, and it got shot down. The cold war was a very weird time for anyone here who can remember it.
What many people are taught about the JBS is totally opposite from what it really has laid out as its agenda. It is paleoconservative in nature. Regardless, as long as you do not walk in goose-step fashion with the powers in the democratic party on EVERY issue, you are automatically labeled a right wing nut job. I have never seen a more obedient herd of sheep than those of the democratic party.
Hey everyone... it is not about LEFT vs RIGHT... it is about THE STATE vs YOU.
[edit on 24-8-2009 by JohnD]
S and F
I remember that very well. Larry McDonald was a member of the JBS and a GA congressman. I was going to high school in GA when this happened and more than one left wing government teacher had outrageous notion to suggest that McDonald planted a bomb on that plane to make himself a martyr. Of course, the facts state otherwise. It did fly in Soviet airspace, it was not authorized, and it got shot down. The cold war was a very weird time for anyone here who can remember it.
What many people are taught about the JBS is totally opposite from what it really has laid out as its agenda. It is paleoconservative in nature. Regardless, as long as you do not walk in goose-step fashion with the powers in the democratic party on EVERY issue, you are automatically labeled a right wing nut job. I have never seen a more obedient herd of sheep than those of the democratic party.
Hey everyone... it is not about LEFT vs RIGHT... it is about THE STATE vs YOU.
[edit on 24-8-2009 by JohnD]
reply posted on 25-8-2009 @ 01:28 AM by open_eyeballs
reply to post by audas
Hey, Congrats! Thats quite an accomplishment! Seems like it has done you well!...Unfortunately my position has been quite the opposite (with regards to education). Barely a high school grad and no general education after that. I mention this because of your statement saying it is difficult for people to wrap their heads around the main point you are making. But without the formal education many have, I have found it easier to accept information I would have never encountered within the regular course of American schooling. Therefore when I come across information about different perspectives of world history I seem to be able to give more consideration where usually other people may be inclined to take a rather stubborn stance... Ok, anyway, thats unimportant.
Funny you mention this...I was just thinking that to myself the other day while watching the history channel...It is in fact very true!
Now, as for this:
I think there should be a distinction made between no rights and no "formal" rights like written in the constitution and the magna carta. If you look at ancient history (be it asia, europe, northern africa) rights are in place for the common man. Except they are not given to the people by the law of the land per say, but by the laws of "God." Or religious texts that help define the role of the individual. Certainly its admittable that because many times the leaderships of different city states and different empires didn't recognize these essential rights properly; rioting and revolt became a frequent occurence (though admittedly often led by a member of the same ruling family). The point being here that evolution and transfer of human rights from a religious concern to that of political doctrine from the midieval ages to age of enlightenment was quite slow and can be paralleled to the slow progress of societal structure and possibly the absence of actual countries and "nations".
As modern political concepts emerged would you think it would be safe to say a more civilized and modern society became developed? I find a strong connection between organized political ideas with advances in society...though, maybe I am wrong...
As for patriotism and/or loyalty. Its hard to accept that there was a lack of these notions when you find such examples throughout history of extreme devotions to ones land. For examples of this I think looking at ancient Egypt and ancient Mycedonia would be a great starting point. While the different dynasties of Egypt and different city states of Greece certainly were not unified, I think it can be argued that their loyalty to their demi-Gods and more importantly their "Holy Lands" that provided for them all their needs was deeply rooted into their philospphys. Loyalty may have been the largest part some might say. Another extreme example of ones loyalty to their leadership and motherland would be that of many of the oriental countries like China and Japan. this remained consistant all throughou tthei rhistory.
To be clear though, I find todays notion of nationalism to be very new and quite a norrow minded view. I like to seperate the definitions of patriotism and nationalism.
This may not be the formal definition of patriotism, but I look at it in this way... the name of the country, its borders and the government of the country play no role in the pride one may posses for its country. It is only the ideals and vision of which the country was founded that encompasses patriotism. Many government decisions are unpatriotic. Many ideologies within the different political spectrums are very unpatriotic as well.
As soon as someone incorporates name, governmental affiliation (parties, unions, ideologies..etc.) and boundaries (usually with a militaristic innuendo) into patriotism is where a moral divide takes place. That divide in my opinion is where nationalism begins and patriotism ends.
Now, if you listen to that video, I found it to be yes (in part nationalistic) but very centered on the core principles by which America was founded. Free enterprise (as you mentioned), opportunity and free will.
The more the United States veeres away from these concepts the more I believe the world is worse off. Seemingly more and more Amrican policies enable soldiers to be deployed to handle situations that have little or nothing to do with American interests. the advancement of American interests kept within constitutional boundaries would be the advancement for world affairs. i believe that is what the video implies.
Peace for the world would serve America far better than creating enemies in foreign lands, and in my opinion the only thing America can do to achieve world peace is to be a catalyst. On other words, lead by example.
Thats exactly what I was referring to...I consider these the first world wars. During this time Britains imperialistic tendencies were full steam and attempting to spread its wings over Africa and the east...not to mention their dominance in europe for the 200 years prior...
this has been my understaning as well...I see this as a major turning point in American perspective. I believ the ultimate effect of the civil war was to essentially melt away the state lines...
I have alot more questions and comments, but this will have to do for now...thanks for the sources...I cant wait to get into some of them..hopefuly they are written easily enough for third graders to read...
...my brain has just been turned into mush over the years...and my comprehension is probaly not much sharper than a 3rd graders...its cool
though..ill just take a year and a half to get through them...
edit for typos
[edit on 25-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]
It is incredibly hard to understand that the system we live in today simply did not exist not very long ago. This point is important as it is the hardest thing to get your head around, was for me, and I just completed a Masters in this very area specializing in the sovereignty of nation states.
Hey, Congrats! Thats quite an accomplishment! Seems like it has done you well!...Unfortunately my position has been quite the opposite (with regards to education). Barely a high school grad and no general education after that. I mention this because of your statement saying it is difficult for people to wrap their heads around the main point you are making. But without the formal education many have, I have found it easier to accept information I would have never encountered within the regular course of American schooling. Therefore when I come across information about different perspectives of world history I seem to be able to give more consideration where usually other people may be inclined to take a rather stubborn stance... Ok, anyway, thats unimportant.
The oldest surviving democracy on earth is the US, it is also one of the oldest nations on earth.
Funny you mention this...I was just thinking that to myself the other day while watching the history channel...It is in fact very true!
Now, as for this:
The people of these various forms of autonomous regions were almost always had no rights what so ever, and they certainly had no loyalty or patriotism to their rulers what so ever -
I think there should be a distinction made between no rights and no "formal" rights like written in the constitution and the magna carta. If you look at ancient history (be it asia, europe, northern africa) rights are in place for the common man. Except they are not given to the people by the law of the land per say, but by the laws of "God." Or religious texts that help define the role of the individual. Certainly its admittable that because many times the leaderships of different city states and different empires didn't recognize these essential rights properly; rioting and revolt became a frequent occurence (though admittedly often led by a member of the same ruling family). The point being here that evolution and transfer of human rights from a religious concern to that of political doctrine from the midieval ages to age of enlightenment was quite slow and can be paralleled to the slow progress of societal structure and possibly the absence of actual countries and "nations".
As modern political concepts emerged would you think it would be safe to say a more civilized and modern society became developed? I find a strong connection between organized political ideas with advances in society...though, maybe I am wrong...
As for patriotism and/or loyalty. Its hard to accept that there was a lack of these notions when you find such examples throughout history of extreme devotions to ones land. For examples of this I think looking at ancient Egypt and ancient Mycedonia would be a great starting point. While the different dynasties of Egypt and different city states of Greece certainly were not unified, I think it can be argued that their loyalty to their demi-Gods and more importantly their "Holy Lands" that provided for them all their needs was deeply rooted into their philospphys. Loyalty may have been the largest part some might say. Another extreme example of ones loyalty to their leadership and motherland would be that of many of the oriental countries like China and Japan. this remained consistant all throughou tthei rhistory.
To be clear though, I find todays notion of nationalism to be very new and quite a norrow minded view. I like to seperate the definitions of patriotism and nationalism.
This may not be the formal definition of patriotism, but I look at it in this way... the name of the country, its borders and the government of the country play no role in the pride one may posses for its country. It is only the ideals and vision of which the country was founded that encompasses patriotism. Many government decisions are unpatriotic. Many ideologies within the different political spectrums are very unpatriotic as well.
As soon as someone incorporates name, governmental affiliation (parties, unions, ideologies..etc.) and boundaries (usually with a militaristic innuendo) into patriotism is where a moral divide takes place. That divide in my opinion is where nationalism begins and patriotism ends.
Now, if you listen to that video, I found it to be yes (in part nationalistic) but very centered on the core principles by which America was founded. Free enterprise (as you mentioned), opportunity and free will.
The more the United States veeres away from these concepts the more I believe the world is worse off. Seemingly more and more Amrican policies enable soldiers to be deployed to handle situations that have little or nothing to do with American interests. the advancement of American interests kept within constitutional boundaries would be the advancement for world affairs. i believe that is what the video implies.
Peace for the world would serve America far better than creating enemies in foreign lands, and in my opinion the only thing America can do to achieve world peace is to be a catalyst. On other words, lead by example.
in reality the real rise of national armies occurred with the Napoleonic wars
Thats exactly what I was referring to...I consider these the first world wars. During this time Britains imperialistic tendencies were full steam and attempting to spread its wings over Africa and the east...not to mention their dominance in europe for the 200 years prior...
The fereralisation of the Union - the civil war - explicitly shut down many of the interests and rights of the south. In fact the very initiation of the Union was about giving up freedoms and powers of the states - exactly what is occurring now in to the empowered global trading sphere.
this has been my understaning as well...I see this as a major turning point in American perspective. I believ the ultimate effect of the civil war was to essentially melt away the state lines...
I have alot more questions and comments, but this will have to do for now...thanks for the sources...I cant wait to get into some of them..hopefuly they are written easily enough for third graders to read...
...my brain has just been turned into mush over the years...and my comprehension is probaly not much sharper than a 3rd graders...its cool
though..ill just take a year and a half to get through them... edit for typos
[edit on 25-8-2009 by open_eyeballs]
reply posted on 25-8-2009 @ 07:03 AM by StrangeBrew
I remember posting this video and thread on ATS about a year ago and it didn't even get one sniff of mention or concern...
Original thread
Maybe back then it wasn't as easy to see the "steam roller" coming in and squashing us at every turn.
Either way, I'm glad this video got a retarded amount of stars because it's something we should all take a hard look at -
Original thread
Maybe back then it wasn't as easy to see the "steam roller" coming in and squashing us at every turn.
Either way, I'm glad this video got a retarded amount of stars because it's something we should all take a hard look at -
reply posted on 25-8-2009 @ 03:57 PM by downtown436
reply to post by StrangeBrew
Mine wasn't getting any hits either, until I changed the title to include about 8 of this symbol "*".
Mine wasn't getting any hits either, until I changed the title to include about 8 of this symbol "*".
reply posted on 26-8-2009 @ 01:48 PM by jimmyx
Originally posted by Solar.Absolution
reply to post by masterp
No personal attacks here but... I think your way off the mark, everything he says is the direction that the us govt. should have taken decades ago I bet the world would be a completely different place... But that's just my opinion against yours.
i would like him a little more if he had said something about the massive aquisition of wealth into fewer and fewer hands. and the elimination of corporations, so profit losses in businesses are absorbed by the wealthy owners, and not by small investors or even taxpayers. or maybe mentioning that all political contributions BY ANYBODY OR ANY ORGANIZATION be no more than 100 dollars per person, and anybody violating this law would get an automatic prison sentence with a conviction.
the role of government is to protect the commons from the wealthy, for the wealthy have an already built-in influence, unmatched by commoners, and this is why a representative government is far better than a king, or a dictatorship. and this fact is born out of thousands of years of history...don't take my word for it, go do a little reading.
reply posted on 26-8-2009 @ 02:38 PM by downtown436
reply to post by masterp
Sorry but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to be a communist, move to China. If you want to be a socialist, move to Europe. America is not for you.
Sorry but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to be a communist, move to China. If you want to be a socialist, move to Europe. America is not for you.
reply posted on 26-8-2009 @ 05:30 PM by masterp
Originally posted by downtown436
reply to post by masterp
Sorry but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to be a communist, move to China. If you want to be a socialist, move to Europe. America is not for you.
I am a citizen of EU actually, and the American view of Obama never ceases to amaze me. That's why I'm asking these questions.
Still, no answer yet, only lots of emotions towards Obama and the democrats. I guess each one of you has your special reasons, but my questions are not really answered yet.
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