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There is NO credible evidence of aliens / UFOs.

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posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 12:28 PM

Originally posted by menguard

Michio Kaku is being directed by other worldly people on space mechanics, wake up people. Didn't he already reveal to ATS that him and some of the other worlds top scientists are literaly transporting things to space through cosmic transport, by teleporting things, which he was talking about what he calls NANO-NEEDLES.

Just in case some have missed this bit of knowledge. Yes you are correct to categorize it as credible would be the wrong word usage it would have to be INCREDIBLE. Logistics.

Some of you guys wouldn't be allowed into other worlds because your mind wouldn't be able to support your existance.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by menguard]

posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 12:44 PM

Originally posted by whaaa
Why don't you believe witnesses like pilots, cops, Air traffic controllers, etc.? They can't all be hallucinating, lying, hoaxing, mistaken!!

We have had people coming on here, claiming to be trained military/naval observers, that have said that they can estimate the altitude, air-speed and size of an unknown object observed in the sky.

Anyone who knows anything about UFO's should know that it is impossible to estimate these things, when an object/light of unknown size is spotted in the sky.

If you think "pilots, cops, Air traffic controllers" are not infallible, you are sorely mistaken...

posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 12:46 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:03 PM
User, So in effect you are calling all these people liers.

Perhaps it's just me; but dosen't that seem a bit arrogant?

posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:06 PM

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.

Originally posted by whaaa
Why don't you believe witnesses like pilots, cops, Air traffic controllers, etc.? They can't all be hallucinating, lying, hoaxing, mistaken!!

We have had people coming on here, claiming to be trained military/naval observers, that have said that they can estimate the altitude, air-speed and size of an unknown object observed in the sky.

Anyone who knows anything about UFO's should know that it is impossible to estimate these things, when an object/light of unknown size is spotted in the sky.

If you think "pilots, cops, Air traffic controllers" are not infallible, you are sorely mistaken...

Where did I say they were infallible? But are you saying they all made mistakes in their reports? That none of them are credible?

posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:07 PM
Well here is some credible evidence in my opinion:

The Lakenheath-Bentwaters UFO Incident

The Lakenheath, England UFO Incident is one of the best cases in ufology, it has multiple radar contacts as well visual reports. In the late night and early morning hours of August 13th and 14th, 1956 something extraordinary happened in the skies over southeastern England. It is also interesting because Lakenheath AFB was also a US nuclear bomber base. This incident is best described by the four separate events that occurred over a time span of 5 hours and had the object traveling at speeds between 80 mph and up to 10,800 mph potentially. A British fighter jet, the de Havilland DH.112 Venom , was subsequently launched to intercept this unknown aircraft, with another launched after the first pilot called for assistance. The ensuing chase, which at times had the UFO right behind the jets' tail left the pilot shaken and the British and American investigators scrambling for answers to what the Venoms were chasing that night.

Picture of actual officer drawings on the radar panel courtesy of the Lakenheath Collaboration

This case has also recently been heavily investigated by a collaborative British research team known as the Lakenheath Collaboration.The only thing known for sure is that there were multiple radar hits from multiple stations of unknown objects traveling at extreme speeds, ground visuals, a C-47 that got a close visual, as well a British fighter jet that did get a radar and visual lock on one of the objects. This case,despite the poorly ordered information is still one of the best and hardest to explain cases in ufology. Many people do not know of this case and they should in my opinion.

Also let me say that I intentionally have not covered the Washington D.C. sightings of July,1952(as many know I am covering three of the top cases of each decade starting with the 40's). I did not cover these because the case has already been extensively covered here on ATS. You can find good information about the case here at NICAP and on this thread by ATS member Gazrok.


1.The Radar Contacts

Important Information

The Players: British and American military personal that I could find...

  • Flight Lieutenant Freddie Wimbledon: Supervisor at Neatishead RAF Fighter Command that night, responsible for sending the intercept orders.

  • Lakenheath air traffic supervisor, USAF officer, Sgt. Forrest Perkins

  • Lakenheath air traffic controller S.Stg. Thomas Emerick

  • Lakenheath assistant air traffic controller A/3C James M. Kastner

  • Intelligence Specialist A/1C Ronald R Erikson

  • Intelligence Specialist A/2C Richard T. Lynch

  • Intelligence Specialist A/2C Gene O. Godfrey

  • Intelligence Specialist A/2C Philip R. Fowler

  • Pilot of Venom One: Dave Chambers

  • Pilot of Venom Two: Ian Frazer-Kerr

  • Navigator of Venom One: John Brady

  • Navigator of Venom Two: Ivan Logan

  • It should be noted that there were many reported civilian witness reports that night but none have been able to be confirmed as true.

    The Places: Lakenworth(US nuclear bomber base) and Bentwaters Air Force bases in England, which in 1956 were on loan to the United States by the Royal Air Force. Radar contact was made from three separate sources(Lakenheath, Bentwaters, and Venom aircraft) with multiple radar configurations.

  • Bentwaters AFB
    - Radar stations: GCA (Ground Control Approach), AN/MPN-1,1 A

  • Lakenheath AFB
    -Radar stations: RATCC(Radar Air Traffic Control Center), CPS-4, CPS-5

  • Venom aircraft with AI (Aircraft Interceptor) radar

  • There were times when there was both an aircraft hit AND a ground hit. Also there were times when there was a visual conformation AND radar conformation.

  • It is also important to note that all original time is Greenwich Mean Time ZULU (zero). I have translated the 24 hour numbers into the more commonly civilian use of 12 hour numbers for ease of understanding.

    The Types of Radar Available At Time of Incident:

  • TS-ID
  • CPS-5
  • CPN-4
  • MTI
  • Aircraft radar was AI, or "Aircraft Interceptor"

    Helpful radar link: Radar

    This is detailed about the various types: Radar Types

    Weather Conditions

    Clear sky until 3AM, with an unlimited ceiling. Visibility between 1:00AM and 4:00AM was 10 nautical miles with no storm systems in the region. All aircraft were accounted for and identified by radar. Wind direction between 12:00AM and 6:00AM was as follows:
    -(Velocity in degrees) Surface:230 deg at 15 knots
    -6,000 feet: 290 deg at 24 knots
    -10,000 feet: 290 deg at 35 knots
    -16,000 feet: 290 deg at 45 knots
    -20,000 feet: 290 deg at 53 knots
    -30,000 feet: 290 deg at 62 knots
    -50,000 feet: 290 deg at 75 knots
    All weather, radar, personal, and location information courtesy of the Lakenheath Collaboration

    Detailed Contact Information

    First Contact
    The first URE, or unidentified radar echo, came at around 9:30 PM on the Bentwaters Air Force Base radar. The contact was about 25-30 miles east, southeast. The contact remained until it was lost about 15-20 miles to the west, northwest of Bentwaters. The object stayed on a constant azimuth heading of 285 degrees and was moving at an estimated speed of between 4,000 and 10,800 mph (Mach 7.5 - 15), the speed varies as there is discrepancy in the radar operators calculation of speed in regards to the transit time between distances in between the 2 second radar sweeps. The operator said that "the size of the blip was that of a normal aircraft, but diminished in size and intensity to the vanishing point before crossing the entire screen."A T-33 "Shooting Star" trainer from the 512th Fighter Interceptor Squadron manned by 1st Lieutenants Charles Metz and navigator Andrew Rowe, who were already in the air returning from a training mission, were diverted to investigate but found nothing and returned home.

    Second Contact
    About 5 minutes later at around 9:35PM a group of 12-15 UREs was picked up about 8 miles southwest of Bentwaters, the echos "appeared as normal targets" and "normal checks were made to determine possible malfunctions of the radar failed to show any malfunctions." The UFOs appeared to move as a group to the northeast at speeds varying between 80 and 125 mph. A 6-7 mile area was covered on the scope, while the echos "faded considerably" after a distance of 14 miles NE of Bentwaters they were still tracked to a point 40 miles NE of Bentwaters where they merged into a single echo "several times larger than a B-36 return under similar conditions." This single echo remained stationary for 10-15 minutes at this location 40 miles NE of Bentwaters for 10-15 minutes, then proceeded to move NE for 5-6 miles, stopped again for 3-5 minutes, and finally moved out of range (range was 50 miles) of the radar at 9:55PM. The apparent average speed for the merged object was calculated at between 290-700 mph (58 miles in 5-12 minutes).

    Image of reconstruction of a vintage radar room circa 1956 courtesy of

    Third Contact
    At 10:00PM yet another contact was picked up about 30 miles east of Bentwaters and tracked to a point about 25 miles west of the station for 16 seconds. The radar operator figured the speed to be "in excess of 4,000 mph" but given the distance covered divided by time it appears the speed was more like 12,000 mph, or around Mach 17. All of the returns appeared normal except for the last, which was slightly weaker than the others. The URE disappeared when it moved out of range.

    Map showing area of incident with Air Force bases represented by black circles and towns by black squares,courtesy of
    Continued Below....

    [edit on 8/23/2009 by jkrog08]

  • posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:09 PM
    Fourth Contact
    At 10:55PM radar contact occurred again, the URE was 30 miles east of Bentwaters moving west at an apparent speed of between 2,000-4,000 mph. The URE disappeared 2 miles East of the station and "immediately" appeared on scope 3 miles west of the station. It then disappeared entirely 30 miles west of the station. It is interesting to note that this URE appeared to be on the same course as the third contact and depending on the radar operators definition of "immediately" (as in blinked off and back on in the same sweep) then the speed would have been around 18,000 mph, or around Mach 25. The official Blue Book report estimated the speed lower, at 12,000 mph. Now at this point in this ongoing anomalous saga someone at Bentwaters called an operator at Lakenheath radar station and asked "if they had any 4,000 mph targets". The caller from Bentwaters also stated the control tower at Bentwaters had reported seeing a " bright light passing over the field from east to west at terrific speed at around 4,000 feet altitude." Now at this same time a pilot of a C-47 flying over the station at 4,000 feet reported "a bright light passed under his craft moving east to west at terrific speed."

    Accordingly the Lakenheath radar supervisor had all controllers start scanning the scopes using MTI, or a moving target indicator, which eliminated all ground clutter, or ground returns.The operators soon discovered a stationary echo about 20-25 miles southwest of Lakenheath. It is interesting to note that the radars should not have picked up the target because it was not moving, but they did. Here is an interesting note on why they may have still picked up a stationary target:

    A vibrating or rapidly rotating target will show up on MTI radar even if it is not otherwise in motion.

    It then began moving once again in an instantaneous acceleration in velocity to 400-600 mph in a north, northeast direction. Local Air Force command was notified and kept appraised of the developing situation, which included the URE making several linear direction changes at around 600 mph with no speed change apparent in the directional changes. The changes varied between 8 and 20 miles in length with stationary episodes of 180-360 seconds (3-6 minutes) in between. It is also note worthy that there were several observations at Lakenheath at this time, including multiple site radar AND visual conformations of the objects instant acceleration and abrupt stops. At about 11:50PM the RAF (Royal Air Force) scrambled a de Havilland "Venom" fighter jet to investigate.

    Helpful Link
    Gordon Thayer NICAP Report

    2.The Chase

    According to British reports the jet was launched from a field near London, which is 30-45 miles southwest, while the USAF report states the jet was launched from Waterbeach RAF station, which is only 20 miles southwest of Lakenheath. The second difference is the fact that the radar control supervisor at Lakenheath stated that the Venom was vectored to the stationary UFO (the fifth contact) at about 16 miles SW of Lakenheath and that was the only contact with the UFO. Now according to Blue Book "the jet flew over Lakenheath and was vectored to a radar target 6 miles east of the field. The pilot then advised he had a bright, white light in sight and would investigate. At 13 miles west of Lakenheath he reported loss of the target and light." This statement implies that the pilot had both a radar lock and visual sight on the UFO. "Lakenheath then vectored him to another target 10 miles east, the pilot advised target was in sight and he was locking on." Now in the timeline of things this new target would be classified as the "fifth contact", this one occurred both on the ground and in the air however. The watch supervisor at Lakenheath does agree with this fifth hit, except for the distance from the base. After these discrepancies everything else matches in both Blue Book and British accounts.

    Chart courtesy of

    The stationary UFO was at an altitude 15-20,000 feet and about 16 miles SW of the base. Shortly after the new vector was given Lakenworth told the pilot the URE was half a mile dead ahead, the pilot then radioed, "Roger...I've got my guns on him." The pilot was referring to a radar fire control system, the pilot told the USAF later that the "URE was the clearest target I've ever seen on radar." There was a brief pause after the pilot radioed the lock, then the pilot radioed Lakenworth asking "Where did he go?", "Do you still have him?". Lakenheath then radioed in saying the UFO had made a swift circular movement and was now BEHIND the aircraft! The pilot then confirmed the UFO was indeed behind him and that he would "try to shake it". The pilots numerous maneuvers to shake the unknown aircraft were unsuccessful, Lakenheath said that there was a distinct radar echo behind the echo of the jet, indicating that the separation was greater than 500 feet. At this time, still unable to shake the UFO of his tail the Venom pilot requested assistance. After around ten minutes the first pilot radioed in, reportedly sounding very scared, saying he was returning to base because his fuel was low. He asked if the craft was following him and was told by Lakenheath that it did for a short distance then resumed its stationary position.

    "He tried everything. He climbed, dived and circled. But the UFO acted like it was glued right behind him. Always the same same distance, very close."
    For 10 minutes the pilot tried to shake off the object. Those on the ground could "tell from his tonal quality that he was getting worried, excited and also pretty scared."
    Soon after he turned back to base as fuel was getting low.

    Lakenheath Collaboration

    The second Venom was directed towards the last position of the UFO but before he got close enough to the object he reported engine malfunctions and stated he was returning to base. The following is the pilot to pilot conversation monitored by the radar control:

    Number 2: "Did you see anything? "
    Number 1: "I saw something, but I'll be damned if I know what it was."
    Number 2: "What happened?"
    Number 1: "He - or it - got behind me and I did everything I could to get behind him and I couldn't. It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen."

    Here is the information taken by Blue Book personal regarding the Venom-UFO encounter:

    d) [Description of flight path and maneuvers of object(s)] Flight path was straight but jerky with object stopping instantly and then continuing. Maneuvers were of the same pattern except one object was observed to "lock on" to fighter scrambled by RAF and followed all maneuvers of the jet fighter aircraft. In addition, Lakenheath RATCC observed object 17 miles east of station making sharp rectangular course of flight. This maneuver was not conducted by circular path but on right angles at speeds 600-800 mph. Object would stop and start with amazing rapidity.

    Lakenheath Collaboration

    The pilot of Venom one said he did have a radar gun lock for several seconds so "there was something there that was solid." Following the chase the UFO did not immediately leave the radar scope, according to the night supervisor:

    The target made a couple more short moves, then left our radar coverage in a northerly direction -- speed still about 600 mph. We lost target outbound to the north at about 50-60 mi., which is normal if aircraft or target is at an altitude below 5,000 ft (because of the radiation lobe of that type radar [a CPS-5]).

    The time of the loss of contact was given by Blue Book at around 3:30AM. It is important to note that the radar supervisor stated "The speeds that night were all calculated based on the time and distance covered on radar." Additionally he said, "This speed was calculated many times that evening."

    Continued on THIS THREAD..

    posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:09 PM
    Please post any relevant replies in the ongoing discussion located here:

    None of you have ever seen an extraterrestrial object.


    Thank you


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