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Health Care Bill Would Allow Feds To Snoop in Your Checkbook

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posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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Someone was making the point the other day that this bill doesn't need to be 1,000 pages long. It's 1,000 pages because it's filled with loopholes and double speak.

This is why most Congressmen and Senators supporting the Bill appeal to emotion.

Liberals and politicians in general love to appeal to emotion because emotion can cloud reason.

Pelosi and the gang didn't think the American people would read it.

Here's a video of Rep. John Conyers from Michigan asking why does he need to read the bill. This is someone that we pay for this very purpose. We expect them to read the bills they are about to vote yes or no on. The plan was never to read the bill but to just shove it down our throats.

www.youtube.com...




posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by desertdreamer
 



Doctors are gonna get the shaft as well....

- Sec. 1121, Pg. 241, Lines 6-8 - Doctors, it does not matter what specialty you have; you’ll all be paid the same. “Service categories established under this paragraph shall apply without regard to the specialty of the physician furnishing the service.”


That's going to cause a massive decrease in the number of doctors, especially specialists.

If that part of the plan goes through, they will HAVE to ration health care because there won't be enough doctors willing to put up with the government dictating how much they can earn.

And frankly, I wouldn't blame them in the least for changing professions, or not going into medicine in the first place. And furthermore, I really wouldn't want to place my health in the hands of a doctor who would be willing to go along with a plan like that. Pure lunacy...


TA

edit:

Thank you all for the replies, info, insight, stars, flags, etc.




[edit on 22-8-2009 by TheAssociate]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by TheAssociate
 



You are right about the specialists....if they can't charge outrageous amounts like they have been, they will probably just say screw it and get out.

Edit: Sorry, posted the same quote....moment of non-lucidity



[edit on 22-8-2009 by desertdreamer]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by TheAssociate
 


There will be no specialist. Why spend the extra time learning a specialty if you make the same thing as a family doctor. It makes no sense.

Unless they force them. What if medical students were forced to specialize in certain areas depending on the amount currently available. I could actually see them trying something like this.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Strictsum
 


I saw in the Bill where the Government is going to be able to even choose where the interns will do their internships. This will affect the specialties as well.




# Sec. 1501 (beginning), Pg. 659-670 - Doctors in Residency – government will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you’ll live.

# Sec. 1503 (beginning), Pg. 675-685 - Government will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, including teaching hospitals.



[edit on 22-8-2009 by desertdreamer]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by desertdreamer
 


Well there you go. I guess they've got that one figured out already.

2nd



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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First off, everyone who is citing a sppecific section, please post the actual wording of the text and not the amended summaries of third party editors.

Here is the entire bill in its legal writing. frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...:h3200ih.txt.pdf

I did not read anything about them having your bank records. It stated automatic eft, which is already utilized by thousands of private corporations, including many gyms, Balleys being one, as well as amusement parks like Busch Gardens Adventure Island's membership pass. That is only two examples.

What does that mean? It means that there will be an automated charge to your bank account on a given date. Same applies here.

As I was reading section 1121, I did not see any language that explicitly stated it would level out ALL physicians pay rate at all. Maybe I am looking wrong, so I will post the entire thing.

Subtitle B—Provisions Related to
5 Part B
6 PART 1—PHYSICIANS’ SERVICES
7 SEC. 1121. SUSTAINABLE GROWTH RATE REFORM.
8 (a) TRANSITIONAL UPDATE FOR 2010.—Section
9 1848(d) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–
10 4(d)) is amended by adding at the end the following new
11 paragraph:
12 ‘‘(10) UPDATE FOR 2010.—The update to the
13 single conversion factor established in paragraph
14 (1)(C) for 2010 shall be the percentage increase in
15 the MEI (as defined in section 1842(i)(3)) for that
16 year.’’.
17 (b) REBASING SGR USING 2009; LIMITATION ON
18 CUMULATIVE ADJUSTMENT PERIOD.—Section 1848(d)(4)
19 of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(d)(4)) is amended—
20 (1) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘subpara21
graph (D)’’ and inserting ‘‘subparagraphs (D) and
22 (G)’’; and
23 (2) by adding at the end the following new sub24
paragraph:
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00238 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
239
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(G) REBASING USING 2009 FOR FUTURE
2 UPDATE ADJUSTMENTS.—In determining the
3 update adjustment factor under subparagraph
4 (B) for 2011 and subsequent years—
5 ‘‘(i) the allowed expenditures for 2009
6 shall be equal to the amount of the actual
7 expenditures for physicians’ services during
8 2009; and
9 ‘‘(ii) the reference in subparagraph
10 (B)(ii)(I) to ‘April 1, 1996’ shall be treat11
ed as a reference to ‘January 1, 2009 (or,
12 if later, the first day of the fifth year be13
fore the year involved)’.’’.
14 (c) LIMITATION ON PHYSICIANS’ SERVICES IN15
CLUDED IN TARGET GROWTH RATE COMPUTATION TO
16 SERVICES COVERED UNDER PHYSICIAN FEE SCHED17
ULE.—Effective for services furnished on or after January
18 1, 2009, section 1848(f)(4)(A) of such Act is amended
19 striking ‘‘(such as clinical’’ and all that follows through
20 ‘‘in a physician’s office’’ and inserting ‘‘for which payment
21 under this part is made under the fee schedule under this
22 section, for services for practitioners described in section
23 1842(b)(18)(C) on a basis related to such fee schedule,
24 or for services described in section 1861(p) (other than
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00239 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
240
•HR 3200 IH
1 such services when furnished in the facility of a provider
2 of services)’’.
3 (d) ESTABLISHMENT OF SEPARATE TARGET
4 GROWTH RATES FOR CATEGORIES OF SERVICES.—
5 (1) ESTABLISHMENT OF SERVICE CAT6
EGORIES.—Subsection (j) of section 1848 of the So7
cial Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4) is amended
8 by adding at the end the following new paragraph:
9 ‘‘(5) SERVICE CATEGORIES.—For services fur10
nished on or after January 1, 2009, each of the fol11
lowing categories of physicians’ services (as defined
12 in paragraph (3)) shall be treated as a separate
13 ‘service category’:
14 ‘‘(A) Evaluation and management services
15 that are procedure codes (for services covered
16 under this title) for—
17 ‘‘(i) services in the category des18
ignated Evaluation and Management in the
19 Health Care Common Procedure Coding
20 System (established by the Secretary under
21 subsection (c)(5) as of December 31, 2009,
22 and as subsequently modified by the Sec23
retary); and
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00240 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
241
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(ii) preventive services (as defined in
2 section 1861(iii)) for which payment is
3 made under this section.
4 ‘‘(B) All other services not described in
5 subparagraph (A).
6 Service categories established under this paragraph
7 shall apply without regard to the specialty of the
8 physician furnishing the service.’’.
9 (2) ESTABLISHMENT OF SEPARATE CONVER10
SION FACTORS FOR EACH SERVICE CATEGORY.—
11 Subsection (d)(1) of section 1848 of the Social Secu12
rity Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4) is amended—
13 (A) in subparagraph (A)—
14 (i) by designating the sentence begin15
ning ‘‘The conversion factor’’ as clause (i)
16 with the heading ‘‘APPLICATION OF SIN17
GLE CONVERSION FACTOR.—’’ and with
18 appropriate indentation;
19 (ii) by striking ‘‘The conversion fac20
tor’’ and inserting ‘‘Subject to clause (ii),
21 the conversion factor’’; and
22 (iii) by adding at the end the fol23
lowing new clause:
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242
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(ii) APPLICATION OF MULTIPLE CON2
VERSION FACTORS BEGINNING WITH
3 2011.—
4 ‘‘(I) IN GENERAL.—In applying
5 clause (i) for years beginning with
6 2011, separate conversion factors
7 shall be established for each service
8 category of physicians’ services (as de9
fined in subsection (j)(5)) and any
10 reference in this section to a conver11
sion factor for such years shall be
12 deemed to be a reference to the con13
version factor for each of such cat14
egories.
15 ‘‘(II) INITIAL CONVERSION FAC16
TORS.—Such factors for 2011 shall be
17 based upon the single conversion fac18
tor for the previous year multiplied by
19 the update established under para20
graph (11) for such category for
21 2011.
22 ‘‘(III) UPDATING OF CONVER23
SION FACTORS.—Such factor for a
24 service category for a subsequent year
25 shall be based upon the conversion
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00242 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
243
•HR 3200 IH
1 factor for such category for the pre2
vious year and adjusted by the update
3 established for such category under
4 paragraph (11) for the year in5
volved.’’; and
6 (B) in subparagraph (D), by striking
7 ‘‘other physicians’ services’’ and inserting ‘‘for
8 physicians’ services described in the service cat9
egory described in subsection (j)(5)(B)’’.
10 (3) ESTABLISHING UPDATES FOR CONVERSION
11 FACTORS FOR SERVICE CATEGORIES.—Section
12 1848(d) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C.
13 1395w–4(d)), as amended by subsection (a), is
14 amended—
15 (A) in paragraph (4)(C)(iii), by striking
16 ‘‘The allowed’’ and inserting ‘‘Subject to para17
graph (11)(B), the allowed’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 paragraph:
20 ‘‘(11) UPDATES FOR SERVICE CATEGORIES BE21
GINNING WITH 2011.—
22 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In applying paragraph
23 (4) for a year beginning with 2011, the fol24
lowing rules apply:
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00243 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
244
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(i) APPLICATION OF SEPARATE UP2
DATE ADJUSTMENTS FOR EACH SERVICE
3 CATEGORY.—Pursuant to paragraph
4 (1)(A)(ii)(I), the update shall be made to
5 the conversion factor for each service cat6
egory (as defined in subsection (j)(5))
7 based upon an update adjustment factor
8 for the respective category and year and
9 the update adjustment factor shall be com10
puted, for a year, separately for each serv11
ice category.
12 ‘‘(ii) COMPUTATION OF ALLOWED AND
13 ACTUAL EXPENDITURES BASED ON SERV14
ICE CATEGORIES.—In computing the prior
15 year adjustment component and the cumu16
lative adjustment component under clauses
17 (i) and (ii) of paragraph (4)(B), the fol18
lowing rules apply:
19 ‘‘(I) APPLICATION BASED ON
20 SERVICE CATEGORIES.—The allowed
21 expenditures and actual expenditures
22 shall be the allowed and actual ex23
penditures for the service category, as
24 determined under subparagraph (B).


Character limit. Anyways I would like them to cap off many of these physicians pay. My second son was born with bi-later cleft pallet and lip, and the #ing surgeon charged $500 for the first consultation which was less than thirty minutes. He charged us $500 to talk to us about what he was going to #ing do. Guess what? Insurance does not #ing cover his consultation fee! I would love for him to get smacked with a 100,000 dollar a year salary, as it if it were just so little to live by.

Our Insurance plan was coosting too much for too little payout for my son, so we applied for medicaid and got it.

ME and my wifey live off of less tthan 30 grand a year combined, confortably and the only government help we get is the medicaid for our son. Any damn doctor better be able to live off of $100,000 - $200,000 a year.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by DYepes
 





I did not read anything about them having your bank records. It stated automatic eft


It does state that they will have access to your account not only for you to make payments, but to see if you qualify for the services being rendered. Do you think that they will look at your account prior to giving you treatment to see if you have the funds to cover it....you bet they will. So what happens if you do not have the funds? Last time I heard, hospitals by law have to stabilize a patient....even if they cannot pay. I wonder how this will affect that?

Also, I noticed what you were saying about your situation with your children, I understand that it is heartbreaking to make only a certain amount of money and have children that need medical care. I have been there once myself 9I have 5 kids). I was wondering, do you think that you will be affected by this because you are on medicaid or medicare, or because of your combined income? What is your take on that?

Sec. 401.59B, Pg. 167, Lines 18-23 - ANY individual who does not have acceptable care, according to government, will be taxed 2.5% of income.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by DYepes
 


Great job overwhelm the system and attempt to kill the thread with a massive post that even YOU aren't sure where your point lies...

Isn't this exactly what the administration is trying to do with HealthCare et. al.

Try reformatting ; remove line numbers and use the [ CODE ] tag to enable a mono-spaced font.



This is what it will look like with the code tag enabled.
It has a nice look for official documents and newsprint.


Sheesh.

Anyhow, The access to ones checking acct. could be as innocuous as a simple debit for a co-pay.

Yet that's not the way that the bill is worded.

The bill needs too much correction at this point. Just the cost of red ink (oh wait ... red markups might be too offensive to the writers of the bill.)


Scrap it and start over ... There is too much to debate judging by the general public's response. Warranted or not.

They can't even give away $2 billion in the C4C program correctly!!! Jeepers!!! When will you pro health care loons get an objective clue!



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 


I agree with you. It should be scrapped and redone. However the fact that there's like 5 different bills gives them tons of wiggle room. When someone reads something they don't like in one of the bills. They can just point to another one and say, see it's not in this bill that ones just a rough draft.

The whole plan will be written in committee anyway the way I understand it. These bills are just rough guidelines for the committees to follow. It doesn't matter what the public wants, the committee will write whatever bill they want anyway. If this is incorrect please tell me.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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AND here's a great kicker...

.GOV has access to your checking... Right? You are in emergency room with, say, kidney stones...

You have outstanding checks yet you show a balance to pay for shattering said kidney stones... They debit...

Your checks bounce because you have to pay for .GOV healthcare on the spot.

Rather than be billed.

People are so screwed already and haven't even gotten a meal out of this yet.

Maybe off topic but I'm just sayin ya know.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by DrMattMaddix
 


Excellent example!



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by TheAssociate
 


If they're looking to find any money in there they will be sorely disappointed...

so snooping won't do much good



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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You must trust the Communisty Organizer he would never steer you wrong

he knows the people voted for change and change they are getting like it or

not. Snoop in your check book? It is for the good of the Weople because the

Community Organizer is watching you or I should say watching over you for

your own protection. This way the government can help you balance your

checkbook like they do their own checkbook, what a brilliant idea I should of

thought of this myself. ^Y^









[edit on 22-8-2009 by amari]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by Strictsum
 





It doesn't matter what the public wants, the committee will write whatever bill they want anyway. If this is incorrect please tell me.


That's the way it works, I believe. 'They' are going to have it their way, or they'll just continue tinkering and adjusting until they come up with what they want, worded in a way the people will swallow.


TA



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by TheAssociate
reply to post by Strictsum
 





It doesn't matter what the public wants, the committee will write whatever bill they want anyway. If this is incorrect please tell me.


That's the way it works, I believe. 'They' are going to have it their way, or they'll just continue tinkering and adjusting until they come up with what they want, worded in a way the people will swallow.


TA


A stripped down version of the government healthcare bill will be voted in by

congress and then they will amend what ever they want into the bill in the

future. The eye opener has been the town hall meetings and what members

of congress really think of the Weople. In many instances congressmen and

congresswomen could care less what the Weople think and congress will vote

anyway they choose no matter if it goes against the wishes of the Weople.


Here is the real problem the news media talks as though the bill will pass and

by taking out certain portions of the controversial bill it will be acceptable to

the Weople that I believe will not be the case.


The Weople are a lot smarter then congress gives them credit for and we all

know congress would never ever give up their premium government

healthcare plan for what I call the proposed government pauper healthcare

plan.


The Weople pay congresses salaries witch congress votes in automatically

without the Weople's blessings. We are led to believe that congress is in

charge of the legislative branch of government, wrong. I believe who

actually is in charge of congress is the lobbyist and since the lobbyist are in

charge of the legislative branch of government there needs to be a 4th

branch of government called lobbycons. ^Y^





[edit on 23-8-2009 by amari]

[edit on 23-8-2009 by amari]



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Concerning the Dr.'s pay I downloaded the bill when I heard that to check it out a couple weeks ago and it's a very bad misinterpretation of what it actually says.

The bill is responding to the procedures performed by the Dr. not his/her pay. In other words if you get an x-ray it will cost the same no matter where you get it inside the US. This is to keep the hospital a from charging the govt. insurance 6000 bucks for the x-ray when hospital b charges 600 bucks.

Now the checking account thing well that is already being done just not on a scale like is depicted in the this bill. Anyone working for a state or federal agency gives the state or federal govt. the authority not only to check your finances, but to withdraw money to send to individuals you owe money if you start getting a lot of creditors calling you at work, or at least that's how it worked in the past. I had friends that had this done to them. The reason for it was so the pay check itself when deposited would have a certain amount go into the recipients account and the rest then sent to the creditors. Chances are most state workers know nothing of this as I have never seen it used in my state but seen it used plenty of times in the military. It's the same idea as when a guy has child support auto withdrawn from his pay checks by a state.

All that being said the bill is a pretty bad one or at least the one I have a copy of but not everything being claimed is true thank heavens lol.



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by Strictsum
 


To some degree this does make sense, to SOME degree. I had major back surgery back in 01 when I still was covered under private insurance and do you know the surgeon made $6000 for a ten hour surgery that I am so sure he had many assistants helping him with. That is plain outrageous, and that was how many years ago! There is a shortage of Family doctors now because these specialists are making so much money. While I do think they are entitled to a bigger salary than GP's $6000 from one surgery????

I saw Ron Paul discussing this huge electronic medical records and how now they are gearing up for huge amounts of oversight. You know, watching all tests, doctor visits and pharmacy transactions. Talk about BIG BROTHER.



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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The Feds already do unless you accept bever pelts as trade for work.

They are just becoming more brazon about it.



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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I foresee in the future a fat added on tax when it comes to paying for the government healthcare plan, and if your body weight is over the limit of a
healthy normal individual male or female with same bone structure and height
you will be charged a fat added on tax based on an increase of each 10 lbs
overweight segment.

Can you say weigh in at the clinic. This fat added on tax will be automatically taken out of your bank checking account since Big Bother I am sorry, Big Brother will have access to your account. Mark my words this community organizer wants total control of your life and what you will be eating. ^Y^



[edit on 23-8-2009 by amari]



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