Chemtrail Debunkers are Losing.

No matter what anyone may believe, you should believe that we are NOT going to get personal in here..

Not one little bit..

Topic or not at all...

Thank you

Semper

reply to post by Udontknowme

...the famine which the Soviets artificially created in the Ukraine prior to World War II,

Really?? That, an excerpt from the 'source' in yor post...from "prior to World war II"???

That is, beyond a doubt, reaching in the highest order.

Say no more, Say no more!!! You've convinced me!! You've convinced everyone!!!

It's the Commies!!! THEY are behind it, I knew it!!!

(Joe McCarthy is laughing from his grave!)

OK, fun is over, now back to reality......

Weedwacker, you are a personal hero of mine for continually giving these kooks some logic even when they laugh in your face. I do not have a small fraction of the patience you have, because I usually stay away from these stupid threads to avoid the utter nonsense that happens within them. These people want to believe something so badly that they close their minds to simple common sense.

OZWeatherman, Zaphod, and Weedwacker (among others) have made chemtrailers look foolish for years and yet they completely resist the logic of scientific, reasonable and empirical evidence.

I used to be a real chemtrailer too, but given that I'm not a complete numbskull, I read a thread by OZweatherman and he completely rearranged what I thought I knew. Why? Because when someone gives me perfectly clear examples of what I thought I was seeing and explains to me what they really are, I listen!

Why is the sky hazy? BECAUSE OF US!!! I think you'd do well to also compare the number of cars on the road between 1960 and now. In 1960, there were 74,000,000 motor vehicles and a population of 180,000,000 people. In '06, there was 231,000,000 vehicles on the road and 291,000,000 people. We roughly doubled our population and quadrupled our automobiles.

What about planes in the sky? Well I don't know other than a friend's estimate, but he says around a quarter million in the sky at any time. In 1960? Barely any.

We are making the skies dirty, not some black ops tom foolery.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by Essan

 

Show me how without childish argument how a private contractor operating through a SAP on a secured location could get caught rigging a plane for spraying icky stuff in the atmosphere? There's no argument, they never could.

Show me where without childish argument, where a private contractor has been caught rigging a plane to spray nasties? There's no argument for that either.....so back to square one eh

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Oz weatherman I will cover in this post an answer to You, and to another on the previous page with the same question.

The very fact that SAPs exist show deceit, and secrecy We will never fully see, or get to understand. The very reason a SAP exists is for Freedom Of Information to never come to light.

I just posted a thread where Obama has turned over Predator Drone bombing runs in Afghanistan to Blackwater.

Now, I would have never thought that possible, but low, and behold a merc. company is now fully engaging in war.

I absolutely believe We are all being poisoned via chemtrails; I simply proved beyond a shadow of a doubt there is plausibility to them.

In previous pages I've proved chemtrails are at the least plausible, and there is a link to a basic thread I did, concerning SAPs

"Chemtrails" is the biggest bunch of bunk I have ever seen. Ever since jet planes have been flying, they have been putting out vapor trails.

Sorry, thats all it is folks.. just vapor trails. So go worry about something worth worrying about.

Then, using their two aircraft and an array of twenty artillery and rocket-launch sites around Beijing, the city's weather engineers will shoot and spray silver iodide and dry ice into incoming clouds that are still far enough away that their rain can be flushed out before they reach the stadium.

For case study on the 'matter', click here.

Mass media? Where are you? Does this not require some air time? Should there not be public inspections as per the health affects?
What if the farms and people were affected in a negative way?
What if?
It's never wise to Fool with Nature.
One can modify the weather though they can't change Natural Law.
It's always just around the corner whether one's ready or not.

One positive side effect is the production of plankton in the oceans though that shouldn't' be necessary if one was a better steward of the Earth and it's resources.

Humans don't 'pollute' the Earth the pollutants from many multinationals do and they are about to be protected by the new carbon credit scheme attempting to be pushed through governments led by the NWO.



[edit on 22-8-2009 by Perseus Apex]

You know, every time I see a chemtrail thread, I think of this video, So I think I'm going to share it with everyone.

The size of the hub-bub does not equate to degree of rightness.

To qualify that, I give you the example of "Cigarette Smoking".

People used to think it was right. They were, and are, wrong.

About a great many things.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by Satchmo Bevins]

reply to post by Udontknowme


thats a sad argument because it also means internet has gotten bigger- not that im dissing your effort against debunkers. anybody with a slice of common sense would figure out something terribly fishy when shown just a single plane thats making a U-turn while spraying teh 'contrails'. chemtrail debunkers are idiots who are waste of time just talking about.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


So by your logic, I could say that there are giant zombie crabs living at the center of the earth. And because I could disprove them, that would mean that they are real?

At the end, you essentially say that because they don't agree with you, they are not contributing constructively. Maybe you don't like getting into a real debate, just because your instincts are more intelligent than 20 years in the field.

Originally posted by Proxy911
reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

 

So by your logic, I could say that there are giant zombie crabs living at the center of the earth. And because I could disprove them, that would mean that they are real?

At the end, you essentially say that because they don't agree with you, they are not contributing constructively. Maybe you don't like getting into a real debate, just because your instincts are more intelligent than 20 years in the field.

I don't know anything about giant zombie crabs, and You already stated that You ***could*** disprove them.

As far as being constructive, I've had weedwhacker accuse me many times of being a troll, because I disagreed with his view.

As far as instincts, and experience, I'll take instinct everyday of the week.

My argument proved that they cannot outright debunk Chemtrails. That was my argument, and the whole debate up until that point was there is no way for an aircraft to be capable of doing it, or any way to keep it silent.

I showed how it was feasible, and how it **is** a program that can be kept secret ***forever***

I live in the Chicago-Detroit Air Corridor and I get bombed almost every day, the sky is just loaded with chemtrails. If I mow my lawn I have to do it after a rain, if I do it when the grass/soil is dry my eyes are watering like crazy and any dust raised will always get me coughing. I believe it was a couple years ago I counted over 20 chemtrails in the sky.

Originally posted by iknownothingiswear
reply to post by Udontknowme

 

thats a sad argument because it also means internet has gotten bigger- not that im dissing your effort against debunkers. anybody with a slice of common sense would figure out something terribly fishy when shown just a single plane thats making a U-turn while spraying teh 'contrails'. chemtrail debunkers are idiots who are waste of time just talking about.

So by using scientific evidence rather than "I SAW THAT" logic makes the debunkers the idiots? Seriously dude, do you even look at what you write before you post?

I'm sorry I am wasting your time with logic and unemotional debate.

And Boomer, could it be that you have allergies? Could it be that you live in a major metropolis that spews filthy chemicals from their businesses and commuting are contributing to your allergies.

See, the problem with you people is you debate with emotion and it makes you so much easier to debunk. You cannot have a debate about chemicals, weather, and aviation by saying "I SAW THIS, I SMELL THAT, I FEEL THIS WAY!"

Do you have anything to debate my previous post about how traveling and commuting both by aviary and ground vehicles has exponentially increased dramatically in the last 50 years?

OOHHHH but I forgot, those are numerical facts.. I guess I should just yell, "I SAW SO MANY CARS AND PLANES TODAY! PROOF OF MY POINT!" Cause that's the kind of sentence you would understand.

reply to post by SantaClaus


I'm curious ... what do you think about the proposal in 2000 at the UN by Germany where they proposed to do this very thing; to mimic a volcano by throwing up a sulfer in the atmosphere in order to cool the planet? I have never seen a chemtrail, but I think it is rather curious that a few years after they proposed this I started hearing about these things.

IF that is what they are trying to do, I'm not necessarily against them.

Take 500 cities. Assume they are being "sprayed" with a chemical...say barium.
Now say they spray each city by 100 square miles. (I realize this is an under estimation based on the prevalence of these vapor trails seen across the world). Therefore, my estimate will be conservative, and not worst case.

OK...now assume the planes are flying at a height of 3 miles. That's 300 cubic miles of potentially affected air space (by your so-called toxic chemical) per city.

300 cubic miles times 500 cities equals 150,000 cubic miles.

150,000 cubic miles = 6.3E+14 cubic meters.

Assume the "toxic" long term exposure level to barium through the inhalation route is 1 mg/m3.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

1 mg/m3 x 6.3E+14 cubic meters = 6.3E+14 mg

6.3E+14 mg x 2.2E-06 lbs./mg = 1.4E+09 pounds

or 700,000 TONS of Barium

Annual production of barium is 6,000,000 tons/year
environmentalchemistry.com...

The chemical spraying of barium on 500 cities would utilize 10% of the annual production. That's a lot of barium folks. And when considering that chemtrails are seen around the world, you can incorporate at least 5000 major cities that are being "sprayed". If that were true, then there would be very little barium available for other uses, or we would see a phenomenally large increase in the price of barium (supply and demand).

Assuming 5000 cities, and 100 square miles...the total is 500,000 square miles. The total earth surface is 197,000,000 square miles. That's roughly 0.3% of the total surface area being sprayed. Not much at all.
www.blueplanetbiomes.org...

This is just a quick "back of the envelope" calculation to help those understand the magnitude of this operation if it exists. I doubt it seriously.

I do believe that it is largely water vapor that has crystallized. And I hypothesize that it is being done for a reason, above and beyond what is released from normal air travel. The skies are being made opaque for a reason. Maybe some form of weather control. Who knows. Who cares. Regardless of what they say...the truth will not set you free. Sorry.

I have provided more accurate calcs in other forums, but they are ignored because many in todays world cannot live without sensationalism.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by allclear]

[edit on 23-8-2009 by allclear]

reply to post by A Fortiori


We're discussing a totally different phenomenon here. I know just a little about what you speak of, so I won't comment on it other than say I wouldn't see a big deal with that happening, although I am certain it isn't.

Again, there is no real evidence. Saying someone saw something or feeling some way is in no way a debate.

reply to post by allclear


Unbelievable. Great research. I'm sure it will go greatly ignored, but I appreciate it.

If anyone here wants to check out the pics on my profile (I hope everyone can see them) click on the pic folder called Chem Trails over O Hare. I live in Park Ridge IL and have a 4th story view of all the planes landing at O Hare. On this specific day (the day after Obama was inaugurated) there were high flying planes creating a grid pattern in the sky right over O Hare. The wind would have been taking the trails towards Chicago. (I can also see the Sears Tower on a clear day from y roof top) I also have a vid of me pointing out the non stop flow of planes in the sky over O Hare but haven't loaded it up. Check it out let me know what you all think... it's truly intriguing.

Appologies for not reading the full thread.

Ive lived in Victoria, BC, which is apparently a hotspot for chemtrails, long before I was aware of the issue. I work outside, and I literally see with my own eyes planes flying at high altitudes emit dense streams of persistent 'clouds', that linger in the atmosphere the entire day. These planes usually start 'spaying' (as we call it) in the early morning, and it has become so regular that we can call within the minute when the next plane is to become visible over the horizon, always heading in the direction that will intersect the already existing stream of clouds that criss cross the sky. Eventually three or more streams will meet in a way, heading north/south, east/west, northeast/southwest at a common axis, that will form the nexus that *always* results in a cloud formation of some kind. I watch with my own eyes as the streams dissipate and coellese into a hazy cloud that shrouds the horizon, and even the most ardent skeptics Im around cant help but think 'wow, they really did just make a cloud!'

I watch these high altitude jets make clouds day after day, and then compare their emmisions to normal jet airplanes that fly into Vic international along regular flightpaths at regular times. The 'contrails' emmited from the 'normal' jetliners are always gone within the hour, and these planes always fly in predictable flight paths. The 'abnormal' planes, that seem to be flying much higher, leave trails that persist the entire day and fly at seemingly unpreictable directions. The only thing predictable about their flightpath is that it will intersect any existing lines of cloud that previous 'sprayers' have laid.

I ask people I work with to keep an eye on the intersecting cloud streams, and by the end of the day they are convinced. Those jets 'made a cloud', and they are usually as pissed, as I am, that their sunny day has been ruined. (we dont get many in Vic)

So I wonder what skeptics, or 'debunkers', would say to me, a person who watches this phenomenom day by day, to convince me that I'm hallucinating in watching these clouds form artificially? What exactly am I seeing when I watch a beautiful morning sky turned into an ugly afternoon haze due to these planes?