Penn & Teller - 2012 [video]

if i recall correctly the year 2012 was a "Leap year" in mayan terms,
meaning that you take one of the small cogs and pick it up from their spot in the calendar and turn it clock wise one cog forward , place it back in the same spot in the calendar.

now your time does not end, i begins over and over and over again with new variations of "water lizards eating fire mountains" and "white wood turning in to blue porrige" as described by each date.

the joke is on us for not understanding time and i belive that was the curses the last ruler predicted would happen to us for being ignorant.

they created a "machine" that would out live them , and i belive they would have hoped we wuold have continued to use this"machine" since it will out live us all.

reply to post by bsbray11

Unfortunately you have misinterpreted what I was saying. I was talking about alignments.

May I butt in, and ask bsbray what exactly you mean by the term "alignments"??

Am I am jumping to the wrong conclusion, based on the term, please correct me.

ALL I know is, from a purely astronomical standpoint, there is no actual "alignment" with the physical "Center of the Galaxy", because the Galaxy is so large, it is a moot point.

I will attempt to address this concept, by comparing the artificial "grid" that we Humans use as a co-ordinate system to deterine positions on the Earth's surface. It is the Lat/Long concept, and as I said, is arbitrary. IT requires a mutually-agreed-upon site as a starting point --- which is the imaginary line of Meridian (longitude) that passes through Greenwich, England.

This imaginary line has to be anchored at two points, and those are the calculated axis points, that are defined by the planet Earth's rotation, so they are the "true" lines relevant to the "true' axis, of the Earth. THEN, of course, to make a grid, the lines of "latitude" have to be defined...(they are also sometimes refered to as "parallels", for obvious reasons).

Since we anchored the lines of longitude at the two "true" poles, the logical place to bisect those lines is at the Equator. This is the ONLY PLACE where the angle, between the lines of longitude, and line of latitude, is closest to being 90 degrees!!!

ALL OF THE REST falls into place, when you condider MORE arbitrary things, such as the use of 360 as a number to measure the fullness of degrees in a circle....we seem to have that number, a factor of 12, instead of a more logical factor of ten, for reasons that date to antiquity....whether Sumerians, or Maya....who knows???

The "12" follows us, into our time-keeping standards too. WHY???

Humans have a base-ten obviousness, just by counting fingers and thumbs...BUT, the MOON shows an approximate 'twelve' cycle...see the dilemma?

NOW.....when the idea of "past prohecies" crops up, it is usually presented in a vacuum, in the sense that the entirety of Human Culture, and the complexities of how we have arrived at our current paradigm, are ignored.

I don't wish to ignore, either, in what I post....the possiblity of spiritual aspects in the mix....I just wish to keep that open, for discussion, and hope that everyone sees a few other aspects to what some of their pre-conceived ideas may blind them to.

Originally posted by Diplomat
Well then fine, go ahead and add your little technical "ascension theory" on top of all the other ridiculous 2012 theories and we'll wait and see which one is correct! lol... maybe they're ALL correct.

Hmm. There's something smacking of a logical fallacy in ridiculing something before you even know what it is.


Stanford Professor Emeritus of Materials Science and Engineering, Dr. William A. Tiller: Stanford bio link

Look into the scientific papers and books he has written. I was interested enough to spend $10 on his book "Science and Human Transformation: Subtle Energies, Intentionality and Consciousness" used from a library (though you certainly don't have to yourself!) and I was totally satisfied, as an engineering student, with the information he laid out. Well, satisfied with what he was able to lay out, but teased, because Dr. Tiller would probably be the first to tell you that his work is only laying the foundation for a new field of investigation, and he did this with controlled experiments demonstrating the existence of an energy currently unknown to us that precedes electromagnetic energy in the human body, and it can actually extend outside of the human body, therefore outside of the CNS. He isn't the only scientist involved with this work, if you investigate it further, only a prominent one tenuring at a prominent educational institution. And Dr. Tiller's papers alone go back to at least 1993.

This is one facet of many, that all inter-relate when you know enough about them individually to see how their postulates overlap, that various philosophies talk about different aspects and dimensions of the exact same things. But if you want to be snide and arrogant about it, there is hard science for you to get started with.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by bsbray11]

reply to post by zerbot565


It doesnt work like a leap year but my no means does the mayan calender end on 2012.

Maya stelae occasionally show dates beyond 2012. Most of these are in the form of "distance dates", where a Long Count date is given with a distance date to be added. For example, on the Tablet of Inscriptions from Palenque the following Long Count date was found: 9.8.9.13.0 8 Ahau 13 Pop (24 March 603 Gregorian) with a distance date of 10.11.10.5.8. The resulting date is given as 1.0.0.0.0.8 5 Lamat 1 Mol, or 21 October 4772 – almost 3,000 years into the future. The king Pacal of Palenque predicted that on this date the eightieth Calendar Round anniversary of his accession will be celebrated, suggesting he did not believe the world would end in 2012.

reply to post by dragonridr


as i understood its rings within rings within rings, and by changing the aligment of one ring you get a diffrent variations for the starting dates of the calendar then you had before. (multiple outcomes on the same calendar).

ill try and fish that pice of video where i heard that theory.

but i agree it dosent end with 2012, if it does it means we are out of tune with our enviroment.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
May I butt in, and ask bsbray what exactly you mean by the term "alignments"??

I thought about it and the best way I can put it, is some spatial information that allows a commonality to be seen, or to be seen more intensely.

ALL I know is, from a purely astronomical standpoint, there is no actual "alignment" with the physical "Center of the Galaxy", because the Galaxy is so large, it is a moot point.

That may be true, but let's talk about the difference different levels of precision sometimes make upon our perceptions. The more precisely fine-tuned you are aligned to the laws by which the universe operates, the more intelligent and aware you become, right? Even though it is not a scientifically-defined sentence, I think you would agree the general concept, right?

There is even a movie that is coming out on 2012 here soon stating that the whole world will fall apart.

Tell me honestly, how is this any different from the Y2K scare, the enless prophesized dates of the end times over the centuries and the countless individuals who claim to be a messenger from "god"?

Seriously, there are two things that I hope will happen on he date of 2012:

#1. We all realize that fearing the unkown is a natural part of life for each and every one of us and that there is no way of predicting what will happen in every sense of the word.

#2. Something does happen on such a scale because of mass hysteria or fear that we all finally wake up and realize what barbarians we have become and stop treating each other with violent actions and start embracing our lives and special and meaningful.

Somehow I don't see the latter coming true, but if things keep going on the way they are, we will see a time where this may come to pass, that is if many of us survive the greedy onlaught that is to come.

Good luck to us all,

King

Originally posted by bsbray11

That may be true, but let's talk about the difference different levels of precision sometimes make upon our perceptions. The more precisely fine-tuned you are aligned to the laws by which the universe operates, the more intelligent and aware you become, right? Even though it is not a scientifically-defined sentence, I think you would agree the general concept, right?

What laws are you talking about laws of gravity? How is gravity going to bring anyone to enlightenment you lost me somewhere. Why don't you say simply you believe an important event will take place on 2012 and it has nothing to do with the physical location of earth.Then i can say OK great i guess will have to see. But to pick this date as important because it has some significance to our sun or earth is silly because its not an unusual event.

I love conspiracies as much as the next guy (wouldnt be here if i didnt) but this 2012 thing is very silly and quite frankly this isnt the first time in history somebody picked a date it came and went and nothing happened.

Originally posted by dragonridr
What laws are you talking about laws of gravity?

No. Other laws, like the laws that should precede gravity, or theories that are trying to unify all other theories into a single equation.

How is gravity going to bring anyone to enlightenment you lost me somewhere.

You lost yourself by assuming an incorrect answer to your first question.

Why don't you say simply you believe an important event will take place on 2012

Because I don't necessarily, and I've already said as much. If anything dramatic is going to happen, I couldn't tell you what it would be.

I love conspiracies as much as the next guy

What conspiracy are you talking about?

Same thing ive been saying for awhile.

the mayan calender ends...oh no, oh no!!!

and guess what... our calender ends in a couple months, OH NO!!! we're doomed.

........

its a cycle, nothing major is going to happen, the only difference being how we measure time, they measured it in a much larger scale. when its the mayan new year...guess whats going to happen?! the calender will go back to square one, the exact same way ours does.

reply to post by bsbray11


So if I'm understanding you correctly according to your own words.You have no ides whats going to happen in 2012. You said you don't believe astrological alignment is important since i showed its nothing unusual happening in 2012. Yet you came in here to say a significant event will occur again which you have no idea what it will be. Then you want to shift the topic to some new age existential garbage about enlightenment thats supposedly going to occur.If you want to talk about your beliefs this is the wrong forum the topic of this thread was about the 2012 myth with its multiple end of the world scenarios (in case you didn't watch the video).

I find it interesting the Mayan calendar is always brought up in this discussion and is the basis for the whole 2012 thing.

Considering the so called experts can't even agree when it reaches it's zero point/starts over how does it get tied to this date?

Link

Penn and Teller are classic for doing hatchet jobs on any topic they do. They pick the dumbest and worst people to represent a subject.

In this case, I do side with the experts they brought in who are stating nothing will happen in regards to a Brown Dwarf Star or Solar flares....also the Mayan expert who made things clear.

I found it to be amusing, but have never given much credence to the 2012 conspiracies. For those of you who believe this is an MSM coverup, please rewatch the videos so you can see who the other believers and leaders in your 2012 beliefs are.

Penn is dumb
But he’s right there are no Mayan predictions for an apocalypse.
Because the Mayan's and other Mesoamerican cultures concept of time is circular, unlike our linear conception of time.
2012 is the beginning of a new age according to the Mayans, not the end of the world.
Who knows what will happen.
Not Penn.
Not I.
Nor you know what will happen that year.
Personally, I believe something significant may happen but we won’t ever be 100% sure of our predictions or speculations until 2013.

C.V.
better than you.
better than you.
better than you.
better than you.
better than you.

Originally posted by dragonridr
So if I'm understanding you correctly according to your own words.You have no ides whats going to happen in 2012. You said you don't believe astrological alignment is important since i showed its nothing unusual happening in 2012.

I really don't know either way if there is going to be some kind of alignment in 2012, or what the Mayans based their calendar on, even though I know they had knowledge of astronomy and used that to base all their time. But yes, the alignments matter little to me.

Yet you came in here to say a significant event will occur again which you have no idea what it will be.

I didn't say I have no idea what's happening. I said very precisely, a change in consciousness is happening. You are using consciousness to talk to me right now. The ways in which we interact with reality are going to change fundamentally, it is happening now, and by its infectious and evolutionary nature it will continue to happen. It happened to me, it has happened to many other people here that can tell you about it, but it will not happen to everyone (many people will simply die) and it has not happened to you yet. It's happened before, sporadically, around different parts of the world at different times, but never on such a globally-accelerated rate due to greatly increased access to information in the modern age. Someone said it is like a virus, they are very right. In a similar vein, William S. Burroughs once said that "Language is a virus from outer space." Then the internet and mass information exchange is the virus on steroids.

Then you want to shift the topic to some new age existential garbage about enlightenment thats supposedly going to occur.If you want to talk about your beliefs this is the wrong forum

Actually it's not. This is a 2012 forum. So I post about what 2012 is symbolically associated with.

the topic of this thread was about the 2012 myth with its multiple end of the world scenarios (in case you didn't watch the video).

Penn and Teller are asses. I'm not saying that means they're wrong, I'm just saying, they have awful attitudes, and they use them to sell their product. They target a certain emotionally distressed audience that responds favorably to their hostility, and identifies with it. I am not interested in end of the world theories regarding 2012. Many people are not, but are still interested in 2012. The way you resonate with negative emotions like Penn and Teller's attitudes has more to do with the topic at hand than the end of the world imo. The more you resonate with negative feelings, the more attracted/fascinated you will become with them and the more they will exist in your life.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by zerbot565

 

It doesnt work like a leap year but my no means does the mayan calender end on 2012.

Maya stelae occasionally show dates beyond 2012. Most of these are in the form of "distance dates", where a Long Count date is given with a distance date to be added. For example, on the Tablet of Inscriptions from Palenque the following Long Count date was found: 9.8.9.13.0 8 Ahau 13 Pop (24 March 603 Gregorian) with a distance date of 10.11.10.5.8. The resulting date is given as 1.0.0.0.0.8 5 Lamat 1 Mol, or 21 October 4772 – almost 3,000 years into the future. The king Pacal of Palenque predicted that on this date the eightieth Calendar Round anniversary of his accession will be celebrated, suggesting he did not believe the world would end in 2012.

Congratulations dragonridr.
I believe this should have brought an end to this discussion.
What would be the point of exploring dates after “the end of the world”?
Obviously the calendar would have to terminate on that date.
This whole thing just shows how us humans tend to cling to this kind of idea and fall into the web of opportunistic pseudo intellectuals or pseudo scientists who actually are after our money. Why we listen to these “cookoos” instead of the real scientists (as shown in the Penn & T. video) is incredible?
I really enjoyed the videos. Had a good laugh.
And after 12-21-2012, we could start a poll on dates for the next EOTW.
My guess would be 12-31-2099.
Cheeriooooo.......
:

2012 is basically con artists making money on the Mayan predictions - which, except for descendants, the Mayan culture died out long before 2012. There will be a change but it won't be some dramatic, apocalyptical type thing. I only want to see the faces of the idiots who purchased books, t-shirts, and other conspiracy gift items for the family when nothing they thought would happen happens. However, I do think the elite may do something though.

SERIOUSLY? are all of you people this #ing stupid?

THE WHOLE POINT of all this new age bull# propaganda is to believe that the world is going to end and to install fear and panic into people.

consciousness is one of the most amazing things in existence, and to not give this aspect of life a great deal of respect is just #ing retarded.

2012 is more than just a predetermined date or whatever else you have heard to simply write off this very important moment of time.

we are going through a shift in consciousness and spontaneous evolution.

i am not going to even get into the legitimate logical reasoning for all this, because to explain that would involve explaining the true fundamental basics of life.

if anything i could suggest learning about Nassim Haramien and the research he has been doing for the past 20 years. He presents some of the most ground breaking views on science and our three dimensional world.
if you haven't heard about this, you are most definitely i need of at least researching him.

now please, this would be a far better thread if we had a legitimate talk about what is going to happen, other than this stupid doomsday #.

I was watching the part about the grapefruit and thought about the whole 2012 pole shift, easiest way to tell what will happen:

1. Get 2 sphere magnets the size relative to Earth and the sun.
2. Set them to the distance relative in size of where they should be.
3. Move the smaller, Earth, magnet below the center and see what happens.

for people who want to know what will happen with the "hollow earth", just get a hollowed out sphere magnet and see what happens. Maybe some engineer with access to the correct materials can do this.

Or does anyone know if this has been done on paper or in video that we can all see.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by johnwayne]