A thoughtful counter discussion to the thread: Answers I received from my pendulum.

reply to post by trustnobody

I wouldn't call it "sacred", that's quite a loaded word in some circles. I would say using tools of divination is personal though. What one considers very personal, if connected to a spiritual belief system, can be sacred for that person.

I don't have any clearly defined spiritual beliefs myself, but reading my cards is very personal for me. I don't think people need to have any particular religious views to use tools of divination, but I think various problems can arise when people take the "divine interpretations" of others seriously without having an understanding of/respect for the tools and how they work.

Just seems best (imo) to study a bit and do it yourself before accepting answers from a complete stranger. Some people (not all people) can tend to go off the deep end a bit when they get any kind of "psychic" advice.

One person I remember reading in the thread in question had asked the pendulum-reader something like "Am I above average?", the answer was "No", but I think the questioner asked again hoping to get a more positive answer. Even a simple, silly question like that can be taken seriously and affect how the person feels/thinks.

So, I don't think it should be taken seriously because it is inherently "sacred", but before putting oneself in a position where you might be prone to take divination or "psychic" advice seriously, you should study up a bit and try it personally understand it. Understanding breeds a sort of respect for the process/concepts involved.

Some people (not all people) don't, and that can cause them to trust someone else more than they trust themselves. I've seen people ask a "psychic" if their boyfriend/girlfriend is their "soul mate" and then fight with the "psychic" when the answer was negative. That's the sort of silliness I think can be avoided.

reply to post by GideonHM


lol..i like your athame :O) Mine is carved from a wooden spoon, so it's not fancy either, but yes, it is a sacred tool.

When using a tool, you are drawing energies from the spirits around you, you are in fact, USING them. It also needs to be noted, that you should always give back to the energies you take and use.

The main reason Im saying these things, is because I really hate to see the energies abused.

There are those of us, and they know who they are, that protect the energies and help to restore that which others have taken.

Anyway, I dont mean to be a windbag..lol...so Im done with my 2 cents

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


No this conversation is far preferred to what I experienced earlier today and last night. Please feel free.

It's the love you pour into the object, it is temporal and can't last forever, but the love can. Having fun with your tools is far more preferable to sitting in a dark room with spooky candles chanting over a cauldron, dressed in funeral garb.

I had to remain a solo practitioner because I found that many high priestesses take their jobs waaaay too seriously and take something natural and beautiful and twist it to their own personal motives. Don't try arguing with them, they may just illustrate why nobody else argues with them. No thanks!

reply to post by GideonHM


I think that happens when anything becomes "organized". Someone always wants to be the big dog..lol..I also prefer solo.

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


It can be hard not having a social structure to rely upon when you need it. Divination to me seems less effective when you have multiple personalities all striving to eventually be the one who directs the ceremonies.

In the best cases group divination can certainly provide considerably more energy, but each person provides a perspective and that really takes away from finding the answers you need.

all i can say is that the pendulum technique failed my tests on that thread. The percentage of success to concrete answers was below the guessing standards.

the OP of said thread scored no better than a coin, and in some cases even worse.

thaats when i denied ignorance and left, i have better ways of wasting time

I was just thinking (yeah, how bout that!) and I guess I might come off as saying "divination isn't for the uninitiated"... it is what I was saying, but not really.

I mean, divination tools aren't something you just pick up and start using and know what you're doing. It takes time and practice to be comfortable, I don't blame those in the other thread for practicing with the "uninitiated" (by that, I mean those who don't have a particular interest in it).

Divination is fun in the right company. But it's important to take a serious look at it personally, before taking it seriously. If that makes any sense.

I don't think I'd practice on an open forum like this, you never know who will post, how much they know about it, or how they will take it. It's not a stable environment.

When I started reading cards, I'd had my deck for a year or two without actually reading with it. I studied the books that go with my deck, I shuffled it while I sort of meditated, sometimes I put my deck under my pillow as I slept. Then I was in a spiritual chatroom where readings were being done, and they encouraged me to try reading them.

I practiced in that room, reading for strangers, many of whom became friends, and I got comfortable with my deck and learned to interpret it.

Tarot seems to be more complicated than a pendulum alone, but I think it's still as important to practice with others and see the variations in how the tool reacts with different questions, people, situations etc., in a comfortable environment.

If it's comfortable for the reader, I guess, who am I to judge? I would see too many risks in offering tarot here.

Freelunch, I'm sorry if you now have to compensate for the open exploitation of spiritual energies to help bring things into balance. I don't know how that works, but thank you for doing it.

reply to post by eMachine


You're very kind, and ty. I think you understand, you are wise

reply to post by phi1618


That is where I personally struggle.

Springer's signature:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to your level, and will beat you with experience."

That man certainly knows what he is talking about, even if he didn't originate it.

Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by phi1618

 

That is where I personally struggle.

Springer's signature:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to your level, and will beat you with experience."

That man certainly knows what he is talking about, even if he didn't originate it.

i was hoping the OP could prove my theory wrong, im not one of those people who doesn't want to be proven wring. Especially on topics such as this.

i simply could not ignore the results, clealy no prophetic in the least bit. I have seen some amazing things in my life, unfortunately this wont sit on that pedestal

its super silly to try fighting this, youll just bring more attention ot the issue, which is clearly false. i would say just leave it alone, make up your own mind, what others think of it ( some even view it as truth...which is scary, since it cannot be proven beyond coincidence..i mean a 50/50 chance ) is of no consequence to me. I ran my test and made up my own mind

the thread was entertaining, but personally i dont understand why the mods allow threads such as that one. One offense to the OP of that thread, it contributed to the falling standard of ats. There are few who contribute anything interesting to this site anymore.

imo those types of threads belong on BTS, not ATS.

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


Not trying to derail the thread again. Maybe you could U2U me on the subject. But, what exactly do you mean by abusing natural energies? And replenishing them? Seems that even if these things were true, that it would be quite difficult for a single entity to muster enough power to replenish that which is natural. As natural energy, by logics, would be ALOT more abundant than what one human could muster.

reply to post by phi1618


You are correct. I didn't expect such a backlash or assault on my personal character. I was simply trying to prove a point.

Point taken!

I have already taken steps to not let it get to me any further, to avoid losing my temper, and the people who do understand got what I was saying, pretty loud and clear.

Well, at least people stopped ignoring my initial posts, didn't they?


Losing one's temper only illustrates how short one's fuse really is. I am no better. This is a thread for thoughtful discussion, not for vicious lambasting and accusations. I was certainly caught off guard.

Crazy.

Originally posted by Mr. Toodles
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Not trying to derail the thread again. Maybe you could U2U me on the subject. But, what exactly do you mean by abusing natural energies? And replenishing them? Seems that even if these things were true, that it would be quite difficult for a single entity to muster enough power to replenish that which is natural. As natural energy, by logics, would be ALOT more abundant than what one human could muster.

It is a little more in depth than what I can tell you in just a few sentences.
First, energy is neither good nor evil..it just is...its all in how we use it.The more of us that walk in balance, the more we can heal our earth and keep her beautiful and healthy.
But anyone who takes energy, or spirit to use in a ritualistic manner, should offer back something to the spirits. Its a way of saying thank you to the Divine source.

A piece of hair, maybe water, a bit of food, these are all something that can be used as an offering. These are all things that have a "life force".

The greater the gift that nature offers to you, the greater your thank you should be.

Its not really the fact of WHAT you give back to the earth, but its the recognition that you've recieved and have a grateful desire to offer something in return.

To take something without gratitude and respect is to harm the earth, even in the smallest way. Plus, there is the energy involved.

It is the Shamans, and others who are grounded who work to give back energy and thanks to the earth. I know it sounds crazy, but it helps keep a balance.

You might think im a bit wacked after reading all this, heheh..its why I really dont talk about it much Only in the circles where others know.

Originally posted by Chronogoblin

Originally posted by jd140
Her thread is entertaining.

I am pretty sure that was the point. The rest of your post is just sniping and I won't comment.

Chrono

Then why did you comment at all?

The point my post was getting across is to let those who believe, believe. Who are we to crap in their cherrios?

reply to post by jd140


It doesn't matter.

Counter opinions are necessary to foster a deeper understanding of the universe, and topics such as divination are in sore need of it.

I never used to understand divination, much less believe in it when I was younger. I would have never understood, and if people choose to be angry then it is their choice.

Please feel free to ask about divination if you want, I could probably give you something to think about. You never know.

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


Something to consider is that physical offerings although fitting and more than acceptable, can fall short of spiritual ones instead.

Offering up the energy from your hamburger you had for lunch to fuel the process of a divination (or whatever), and a little extra for those who are helping you, only leaves you hungry and is a pure exchange of energy for beings who have little use for hair, or physical things.

Perhaps a day's worth of karma if you are feeling especially perky, or channeling your feelings of love and gratitude, can really amplify the process as you commit to it, rather than giving a temporal object that requires "digestion" in order for the gift to be accepted.

They require more of your mind, body, and soul, but provide a direct infusion that can make all the difference in the world. Not to mention it earns you a lot more respect from those who don't have to deal with hair or whatever. Yet those are fine as well. Just something to keep in mind.

Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by jd140

 

Please feel free to ask about divination if you want, I could probably give you something to think about. You never know.

I highly doubt it.

If I feel inclined to learn anything then I will research it on my own through the internet and/or the library.

reply to post by jd140


This is a divination discussion. Please keep on topic.

Thank you. Enjoy your trip to the library.

reply to post by GideonHM


Yes it is and you invited me to ask you questions on it and I declined.

But thanks for giving me a helpful reminder in case I forget in the future.

reply to post by calihan_12


i enjoyed your thread calihan. keep 'em coming.

-subfab