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A thoughtful counter discussion to the thread: Answers I received from my pendulum.

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posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by chillpill
I actually found the questions more disturbing than the answers.

It demonstrated to me, the sheer desperation and randomness some people experience in their lives.

It scared me a little! I can see both sides here - thanks for creating a counterview Gideon!


WOW really, I better go read it.


disturbing questions?
sounds interesting.




posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by chillpill
 


ChillPill:

I am totally with you on that!

I was fascinated by the self-centredness of some of the posters. We are all allowed to be a little self-absorbed at times, but some of the arms-length long question lists entirely focused on "ME", really surprised me.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by mckyle]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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shouldn't everyone know by now that the pendulum is moved subconsciously through conscious thought?

It works the same, in theory, if you were to hold somebody by their wrist as they worked out directions to a certain place, and you were the one leading. You can pick up on movement cues for left or right. It's not some special magical energy that guides the pendulum in either way, but your brain prepping your muscles for the pre-determined movement.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by mckyle
 


The original post on divination and ways to utilize perspective to create a freer flow to the information provided through the use of a tool like a pendulum?

Of course.

However, it feels like you are going to utilize my original post to damn me somehow. That post is about divination, and not personal attacks.

You are always free to your opinions, obviously.

Attempting to call me a liar will prove futile, and I wish you had a question about divination or input as to your perspective on the topic.

Name calling is a waste of your breakfast. Please, stay on the topic.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by patent98310
 


I agree. However, I feel that those movements if random enough can provide some answers to questions. But, if you want to take that information to the horse races, you are only slightly worse off by flushing that money down the toilet.

Unless you simply go to the tracks to blow off some steam, or to enjoy the atmosphere of the races, which many people do without breaking the bank.

There is no harm is exploring the possibility, but I think you make a very salient point as to how easy it is to believe something is magical or supernatural, when it is indeed a natural extension of our biology, and our interpretation of it.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by GideonHM


Of course.


"of course" meaning what exactly?


Originally posted by GideonHM
However, it feels like you are going to utilize my original post to damn me somehow. That post is about divination, and not personal attacks.



I think you'll find Gideon, that all posts are first and foremost, about the integrity of the poster and the appropriate accreditation of the material presented. At least that's how most think it works.

I won't say anymore about it until I find the document I'm looking for.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by mckyle]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by mckyle]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by mckyle
 


????

You simply asked a question and I answered that of course the initial post is my posting from the other thread.

I moved it here. I stated that in the first post.

Please discuss divination or your perspectives on those trends and try to keep with the intended spirit of the discussion of divination.

Please!!



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by GideonHM
 



Now i could see it as more supernatural if the pendulum was attached to a fixed point. I know that's thinking of the supernatural from a scientific viewpoint, but it would be ignorant to claim it as supernatural without thinking about a more natural cause to the same effect. But not everything can be proven by our 'known' science, so i'm still sympathetic to the supernatural world.

if that makes any sense. i need a dictionary...



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by mckyle
 


I noticed that as well. I just left that as it lay. They want to ask questions? Sure, I just feel these ready packed yes/no answers can open a can of worms many are not prepared to deal with.

Divination is all about perspective. They can make their own pendulums, ask the same questions, and don't need to ask someone else to do it for them.

If those answers are taken at face value and not questioned and reasoned properly, some may run with them, betting all they have on what is a matter of perspective rather than solid truth.

Harm can come of it, just like reading too deeply into a 5 day weather forecast. If the weatherperson says there is a high probability of 60 degree weather tomorrow, you wear a fur coat that day, and it actually gets to 80 degrees, you could suffer heat stroke.

You would probably laugh at the person for being an idiot (which would be deserved), especially if they file a lawsuit against Fox news for giving an inaccurate report. It won't fly, but this happens all the time.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by patent98310
 


Yes, the official term is phenomena. An aspect of nature. Some phenomena such as spirits and ghosts can indeed be considered as such. Yet, so is the Aurora Borealis, and it is perfectly explainable and understandable from a standard scientific approach. Ghosts? Not so much.

Divination borders both. No one considers a weatherperson to be a mystic, they aren't, but they do divine the future by analyzing current trends and utilize their instrumentation for fairly accurate predictions.

Once you leave the realm of weather, geology, or other well understood phenomena, the line blurs and the very same basic concept becomes intertwined with mysticism, and is much harder for most to swallow.

I don't blame them.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by calihan_12
 


I most certainly did not get the impression from your original post that this was some kind of joke. The impression was that ask any question and my pendulum will give you an answer.

Yet you ask and also allow all kinds of significant personal/life/earth questions and answer them with a simple yes or no. Come on, if your pendulum answers these questions, and had any credibility, everyone would be a millionaire, buying stocks, getting winning Lotto numbers, etc etc.

Well, people, once again, this is total B.S. A pendulum does not answer questions, it's utterly ridiculous to think it does. This is NOT science, this is not religious, its nothing but B.S.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by GideonHM
 


I'm not so sure harm can come of that thread, or the people therein interpreting the answers as truth. only because people will tend to lean one way depending on their predestined opinion or biased judgment, which is neither bad or good. So either way they get the answers they want and discard the one's seen as conflicting to their beliefs. We all need discussion from both sides. but arguments seem to turn discussion sour before anything can be agreed upon or a noble solution reached. That's why you see what you see when you watch the news...


All i'm saying is that someone handing out easy answers to people isn't going to necessarily be a bad thing. there will just be people either in the black, white, or grey area (really a full spectrum of colors), and everyone may take action in discussing or arguing on theories and beliefs between the established groups. An easy example is religion.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by patent98310]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by patent98310
 


I agree, and I mentioned this as well. Sometimes the black and white answers from a pendulum can be quite enlightening, far more than using a 32 tarot card layout to even a simple question.

What are you looking for? Depth, or a straightforward answer? If you know what you are looking for, then you can prepare yourself for whatever answer you receive.

Anyone who dangles a pendulum can get yes or no, but most people haven't the slightest skill with the tarot, and thus it is not for them.

Divination outside of weather prediction is not for most people these days.

Fine, good, right on. It is a personal choice to divine future results from current actions, just stick to what you know or accept that the more complexity you add, the more difficult the response will be.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Alpha Furyan
 

I agree very much with Alpha Furyan's post. "Divination" isn't something for special people to do for others. If one is interested in the kind of answers a divination tool can provide: learn to use it. It's all about personal interpretation anyway.

I can read tarot cards, but I get really nervous when I'm asked to read the cards for someone else, because it really is about personal interpretation. It's like trying to interpret another person's dreams.

There are a lot of books with various "dream meanings", but it's really complicated for anyone to try to say what a person's dreams mean, because it's the dreamer's own subconscious. It's up to the dreamer to interpret the symbols themselves.

A book can say that spiders are symbolic of such-and-such, but dreaming about spiders can mean something different for a person who is afraid of spiders and another person who likes spiders.

That's just an example. What I mean is, if you really want answers from any tools of divination, learn to do it yourself, instead of trusting an answer from someone else.

The original thread in question was fun. I posted in it once. I do think a lot of people are prone to taking the answers they get from others too seriously though.

The weird part about it is, when I was learning to read tarot, I was always told by other "readers" that you can't read for yourself (anyone have an explanation for that?). I've always read for myself and I've never had problems because of it. I generally don't ask to know the future though, and I take the answers I get with a grain of salt.

Anyway, people can tend to take "psychics" and "readings" too seriously. Anyone can use the tools and find their own answers. Learning to do it on your own does take some of the "mystery" out of divination, but eventually replaces it with a feeling of empowerment, personal responsibility, and perhaps a greater understanding of your self and situation.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by eMachine
 


You bet!

I feel that people who refuse to give their own readings, are missing out on the confidence to make a mistake for themselves. It is almost an unconscious reversal of logic that many miss.

Everyone is their own best interpreter, if you take the years required to understand one's self. Know thyself is a life long journey, and rarely an easy one at that!


Once a person finds that self confidence and self respect, then you don't have to depend on outside sources for such information, but going to someone else can teach you many things, if you keep an open mind. Then, contemplate the answers on your own.

When just learning, an outside perspective is critical, but with lack of experience how do you know who will give you an unbiased reading? All readings are biased in that you are seeking answers from your perspective.

Most people agree that the Death card is usually representative of transition, not that you will die horribly in the near future. People can easily get scared by seeing the Death, Tower, and Hanged Man all in one reading, it can be a sign of darker times to come. It isn't usually the end.

But fear will manipulate your perspective, and can terrify the inexperienced in to never trying again, or heavens forbid do something foolish (from making rash decisions even up to suicide), if they are traumatized enough.
An inexperienced, insensitive reader can turn something informative and helpful into an eternal nightmare of fear and uncertainty.

This is why caution, coupled with an open mind is always necessary to truly benefit from the experience of divination.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by patent98310
 


I agree. However, I feel that those movements if random enough can provide some answers to questions. But, if you want to take that information to the horse races, you are only slightly worse off by flushing that money down the toilet.

Unless you simply go to the tracks to blow off some steam, or to enjoy the atmosphere of the races, which many people do without breaking the bank.

There is no harm is exploring the possibility, but I think you make a very salient point as to how easy it is to believe something is magical or supernatural, when it is indeed a natural extension of our biology, and our interpretation of it.


Well if you want a really good reading, one must use, goat entrails for divination,



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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Reply to post by GideonHM
 


What did you expect? A ego-masterbation session of "Yes, yes you're sooo right and wonderful."? Sorry but you are gravely mistaken if that was the case to the point of very unreal expectations. You didn't even have the concept correct as I pointed out.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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WILL THE WORLD CHANGE BECAUSE OF BENDING IN 2012??? can u plz ask 4 me.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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I'm surprised at how many people on ATS are afraid to have a little fun and lighten up for a while. If you don't like it, then don't read it. Simple as that.

As far as the subconscious affecting the outcome, yes. I believe it does. As it also affects the outcome of our lives. If we truly are the co-creators of our individual lives, then why not know consciously what you think, feel and believe subconsciously?

If you have subconscious thoughts that are negative or against the grain of what you want to create in your life, then you can work to remove the blocks to your goals and your happiness.

I would encourage everyone of you to use a pendulum for your own personal questions. It may help you to find happiness that you may be lacking in your life. Or maybe you think being happy comes from squashing other people's belief systems so you can feel superior. In which case, you've got a lot of ego and insecurity issues to deal with.

Have a nice day!



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by eMachine

*quote, pg 5, snipped*



I'm glad you noticed
I was like, hey you people... I tried to give some good insight! lol

I read Tarot, use pendulums, these weird cards "of the Russian Sybil", geomancy charts, dowsing rods, I Ching, oracle-type card decks, anything I can get my hands on because I like divination; it's fun. And I read them for myself with much confidence, but I get nervous when others want a reading and I try to walk them through it the best I can, to see what connections the questioner can make without a lot of prompting from me. I like to teach others how to use the cards (I give tarot decks away like candy), because you get much deeper readings when the interpretation comes from your own self, no middleman.

And on the subject of dream interpretation, it really is a whole bunch of personal symbolism. Going to dream dictionaries should be a basis on which to base your own interpretation. Like the spiders you mention, say they represent change: Alpha hates spiders, Furyan loves 'em. The best bet in that interpretation is that Alpha is afraid of change and Furyan welcomes it, not that some epic change will overcome them both (I'm one person, by the way, lol).

My first experience with reading Tarot was having readings done for my by my friend's mother. I guess that's where I got my technique of guiding people through the reading comes from, instead of giving cut and dry, 'this is what the cards say'. The cards don't say anything, the people handling them make the connection, which is why I advocate teaching people to use them instead of going to others. I'm not saying you can't get a perfectly accurate reading from someone else, but it is quite empowering to be able to do it for yourself.

I frequent a website that does readings for people, and I have seen more than a few people be asked to leave due to begging for readings or showing dependence on readings. People get so hung up on the mysticism and forget that they have any say or fault in the answers.

I see a lot of mention of pendulums being simple yes/no answers, but they have other applications: you can have it swing to count [days/weeks/months/years], locations on a map, and I like to use a circular ouija board for wordy answers. I don't think it's fair to ask epic world-related questions because everyone lives in their own little reality bubble. The bubbles overlap quite often, subjecting everyone to each other's ideas and realities and you will always get mixed and convoluted answers. If one is living their life by the pendulum, I say that is completely messed up and dangerous, but if one likes to use it for a little extra insight or even as a party trick, go ahead.

There are civilizations still deeply rooted in magick and things like oracles, and if the pendulum told them to kill their kids, they probably would. This is where the danger comes in, the willingness to blindly accept, but hopefully in a place like ATS people are just having fun.



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