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New Zealand Votes to Legalize Smacking Kids

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posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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New Zealand Votes to Legalize Smacking Kids


www.foxnews.com

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly to overturn a law that prohibits parents from hitting children, according to the results of a nationwide referendum released Friday, but the government says the law is working and won't be changed.

Opponents of the 2007 law claim it is overly intrusive and could turn thousands of good parents into criminals.

They won the right to hold the referendum, which is not binding, by signing up 300,000 eligible voters in support of it.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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But the ballot measure has drawn widespread criticism, with Prime Minister John Key and main opposition Labour leader Phil Goff refusing to vote. Both said the question was so skewed as to make the results meaningless.

In a postal vote that closed Friday, 87.6 percent of voters responded "No" to the question: "Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offense in New Zealand?"

Just 11.81 percent of voters said "Yes," according to the nation's electoral office. About 54 percent of registered voters cast a ballot. The final result will be declared on Tuesday.

"John Key cannot ignore this result. The attempt by politicians to dismiss the referendum as ambiguous and irrelevant has also been rebuked by the voters," Family First director Bob McCoskrie, who advocated for changing the law.

He said the government should amend the law to allow light smacking and set up a royal commission of inquiry into child abuse.

Key said he would take note of the referendum result but won't change a law "that is working." He would, however, take a proposal to the nation's Cabinet on Monday to reassure parents they will not be criminalized. He did not elaborate on whether the proposal would alter the law — or how its applied.

The law, which Parliament passed overwhelmingly, prohibits parents from using force to discipline their children but gives police the discretion not to prosecute complaints "where the offense is considered so inconsequential there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution." No prosecutions have succeeded under the new law.

Deborah Morris-Travers, a spokeswoman for the Yes-vote coalition, was "unsurprised" by the result.

"We always expected it would go in favor of the no-vote because of the way that the question was phrased — it was loaded and misleading ... suggesting that good parents are being criminalized when in fact they are not," she said.

Police statistics show only serious cases are pursued and parents who lightly smack their children are left alone, she said.


Sometimes I think a good light 'smacking' is what this world really needs. Ok, not the excessive beatings I used to get for forging my parents checks or anything, but just a good old smack on the toocus every now and then.

So maybe NZ should be the seat pf power for the NWO. Not the 'bad' one...the one where a kid can get a smackin' if he disrespects his elders or something like that...sure a very touchy subject.


www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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A few open handed, gentle claps on the butt is something entirely different than a fist in the face. I wish lawmakers could practice some discernment.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Skyfloating]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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not a touchy subject at all
Parents should be allowed to discipline their kids

Countries that allow this have some of the brightest students in the world.

Discipline is necessary
The govt. has no business in telling parents how to discipline their kids.

EDIT: The dude above me. Nobody spoke of a closed fist on the face man, calm down. We are talking about discipline not abusive parenting.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by ModernAcademia]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Definitely..

The legislation that is there to protect kids leaves it too hard to reprimand them. It should be clearer.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Surely using the television as a babysitter is far more harmful to a child's development than a rare disciplinary smack. Yet one is standard practice and the other is "child abuse." Sometimes, making our benevolent dictators in office seem utterly absurd is just a matter of giving people some perspective...

Edit to say:

That the police will drop charges on those who exercise moderated disciplinary for are usually "let off the hook" or whatever while those who abuse their children are prosecuted is fine and dandy, until you realize the inherent "guilty until proven innocent" nature of that reasoning. If the laws are on the books, who is to say that they won't be strictly enforced when it is convenient even if they are rarely enforced now?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Ragnar Danneskjold]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


Some common sense at last. Being able to give a child a smack has worked for thousands of years, damn it it worked for me.

Ever seen a lion tell a cub of? Ever seen a dog give a puppy a rough time for misbehaving?

In nature, when there is a prolonged nurturing relationship between a parent and offspring, there is a need to show the young who is the boss and to teach that some behaviour is wrong.

Abuse will occur regardless of smacking laws. All disallowing smacking does is remove an effective method of controlling children.

And there cannot be a human alive that doesn't agree that children nowadays have less respect, are unruly and lack discipline.

Now I'm not saying that smacking is the only reason for this, but there has to be some connection.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with violence.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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I REMEMBER the beatings I received. I always thought they were harsh. Of course, the old man used to always say 'this is going to hurt ME more than it's going to hurt YOU.' What a joke....no, I don't see how it could have. If nothing else, it taught me to keep my mouth shut when I could and LIE when I was backed in to a corner. My third grade teacher (ok, 35 years ago, or so) used a paddle on my rump for not doing my homework. It was embarrassing enough to make me do my homework.

On the flip side of that, I think it takes some restraint...my beatings were often about the head and neck...not cool. Even beating on the butt can be abusive when the bruises on the top of your legs last for a week.

Many people will claim that the lack of discipline in children today leads to many problems that could be avoided if parents, teachers and caregivers didn't have their hands tied when it comes to routine discipline.

I don't know what the answer is. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


One thing, I really think smacking is between a parent and child, allowing teachers & care givers to smack I'm against.

All teachers have favorites, I saw that a lot in school. Allowing smacking in schools is too much, I believe.

I really think that physical abuse of children will happen regardless of smacking rules, I just hope other countries see the light.

Although I fear it's too late for the feral youths of the UK!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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I would like to share with you my opinion on child discipline. This opinion is complexed and nuanced, but will conclusively settle the debate once and for all.

Before I can explain my long complex opinion, however, I must tend to some pressing personal matters. You see my kid is acting up and I have to send him to time out. Once the time out technique gets him to stop acting like a brat, I will get back to you all.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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Meanwhile, kids in New Zealand have entered the streets in an open revolt!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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hmm i wonder if they are going allow adults to smack adults when they do something wrong......



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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i believe 100% that if i was not smacked when i was young, i would have turned out a different person.

It made me respect my parents and know boundaries that should not be crossed.

Lots of kids today have none of these boundaries or respect for anyone or anything. Most of it comes down to parenting if you ask me.

Smacking should definatley be legal with the open hand.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Reminds me of Russell Peters, the comedian, talking about beating your kids. It's every right for anyone to raise their children the way they believe right. I say it's ok but not to a point which it causes injury. Which do you think is more effective, time out or spanking.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I would like to share with you my opinion on child discipline. This opinion is complexed and nuanced, but will conclusively settle the debate once and for all.

Before I can explain my long complex opinion, however, I must tend to some pressing personal matters. You see my kid is acting up and I have to send him to time out. Once the time out technique gets him to stop acting like a brat, I will get back to you all.


Here we go, I was wondering how long it would take.

When it comes down to naughty children though, what's more of a threat, sitting on a step/chair on your own, or the thought of having a slap?

For goodness sake.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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I have said it before and i will say it again.Imo smacking a child is not about inflicting pain at all,it is about the shock factor of a quick,sharp smack on the arse etc that surprises the child.A shock is always more valuable to get a child to not do or do something compared to physical pain.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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I got smacked when I was a kid for my studies and discipline . I think it helped me; I turned out really good. I respect people and people respect me too. I believe smacking is part of parenting.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
I have said it before and i will say it again.Imo smacking a child is not about inflicting pain at all,it is about the shock factor of a quick,sharp smack on the arse etc that surprises the child.A shock is always more valuable to get a child to not do or do something compared to physical pain.


Indeed and the same applies to training dogs too and I know from raising a Staffordshire bull terrier that you needn't smack them to shock them, we always use a can with nails in it and give it a good shake. So I agree that a quick shock can be useful, smacking a hysterical adult being a common idea. Unfortunately this isn't how smacking children tends to be used, the cane in school for example was a punishment and although shocking in a sense it wasn't meant to surprise a child but to hurt them. I don't agree with what this teaches them.

On the topic of time outs again I recall how we dealt with our Staffie. She had a problem where she would jump up and being a heavy well built dog she could knock little children over. To solve this problem we decided to ignore her when she jumped up and after a reasonably short period of time she realised it got her no attention and she stopped. Isn't this similar to how time outs are supposed to work? Children behaving badly for attention get exactly the opposite?

The thing about using violence as punishment against anyone let alone your own children has always seemed odd to me. They are people and I don't see why it's not possible to use time outs and once they calm down talk to them like people, it's what my parents did with me and my brother. We don't smack out Staffie because pain can spur them on.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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It's a dark day for my country and countrymen.

I'll just say that this bill was big news from it's first conception here and no one that I had met or even anyone that anyone I had met had met were for it.

They completely disregarded what the population were saying.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Welfhard
It's a dark day for my country and countrymen.

I'll just say that this bill was big news from it's first conception here and no one that I had met or even anyone that anyone I had met had met were for it.

They completely disregarded what the population were saying.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Welfhard]


Wow, Welf. What do you think is the cause of the disparity in the reported polls and your experience? Surely the media isn't misrepresenting the beliefs of your countrymen, right? The article sure makes it seem like the support was overwhelming. Is you country largely divided on issues based on location? You know...like 'spankers' on the coast, 'time-outters' on the interior? Shed some light on this for us, will ya?



In a postal vote that closed Friday, 87.6 percent of voters responded "No" to the question: "Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offense in New Zealand?"
Just 11.81 percent of voters said "Yes," according to the nation's electoral office. About 54 percent of registered voters cast a ballot. The final result will be declared on Tuesday.



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