White House - Lockerbie bomber welcome "disturbing"

reply to post by EastCoastElitist


That guy was stiched up from the beginning, there is no valid proof that it was him who was guilty of being involved with the bombing in lockerbie. Both the US and the UK Government were consistent in its cover up.

Double standards dont you think, your own Government criticises other countries, while they themselves help or sponsor other terrorist organisations.

You cannot have double standards. Which the USA has always had. Your country has a long history of trash. Oh and We are quite capable of looking after our own trash tyvm. We certainly do not need help from a country, which executes, and tortures others.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by EastCoastElitist

 

That guy was stiched up from the beginning, there is no valid proof that it was him who was guilty of being involved with the bombing in lockerbie. Both the US and the UK Government were consistent in its cover up.

Double standards dont you think, your own Government criticises other countries, while they themselves help or sponsor other terrorist organisations.

You cannot have double standards. Which the USA has always had. Your country has a long history of trash. Oh and We are quite capable of looking after our own trash tyvm. We certainly do not need help from a country, which executes, and tortures others.

Just discussing our "partnership" with a retired Deputy Director yesterday afternoon. He mentioned our total inability to be able to locate wanted IRS personnel known (now or in the future) to be living in Boston. I'm sure other events in the near future will also be interpreted as "blowback" by historians and commentators, especially future difficulties that RDS may have... And thus the game continues.

reply to post by EastCoastElitist



Are you threatning UK Citizens or just threatning me in general.

Do what you want to do, I could care less. If the game continues, there will less cooperation with your country over terrorist activities. If your Government wants to play that game, that is fine with us inthe UK. Works both ways you know. Maybe it is about time the UK cuts ties with the US, I would be all for it.

Seems also Your Gov has a very short memory, after all it was your Government who was consistently invovled in 9/11...






[edit on 24-8-2009 by Laurauk]

Does anyone here realise that there is a propaganda war going on?

Your FBI chap (I forget his name) released a letter of condemnation about this release. He was there during the process of the investigation.

Yet, he consistently lies throughout the letter.

One thing sticks out as plain as day, he states that this man was convicted by Jury. He wasn't.

There are holes in this story from beginning to end.
Even some families of those who were killed state that this guy was not guilty, that he was set up as the fall guy for an inter-governmental plot.

Personally, I don't know enough to say one way or another, but there are so many questions left unanswered about this (just like many other terrorist acts) that it rises a lot of suspicion in me.

Regardless, he was welcomed home, they obviously don't think he was guilty either.
If you had the same situation with an American citizen you'd probably give them the same welcome home too.

reply to post by EastCoastElitist


And talking about double standards, many from the North east coast of America used to fund raise for the IRA

Lockerbie move 'not terror boost'

The release of the Lockerbie bomber has not given "succour to terrorists", Gordon Brown's spokesman has said.
He acknowledged that the decision, made by the Scottish government, created "strong feelings" among relatives of those killed in the 1988 attack.
The prime minister has been criticised for refusing to comment on the release of terminally ill Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds.
But his spokesman said it remained a decision for the Scottish government.
Last week Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill allowed Megrahi to be released after serving eight years of his life sentence for the bombing of a US-bound Pan Am flight, in which 270 people were killed.
'Very difficult'
There was fury from families of the victims and US politicians after Megrahi, who has prostate cancer, returned to his native Libya to huge celebrations.
Justice policy in Scotland is a devolved matter, meaning the Scottish - rather than the UK - government is in charge of it.
However, there has been some criticism that Mr Brown did not intervene to try to persuade Mr MacAskill against Megrahi's release, given the international implications.

Asked about the message that the decision had sent out, Mr Brown's spokesman said: "I don't see how anyone can argue this has has given succour to terrorists."
Pressed over the possible damage to UK-US relations, the spokesman said: "Clearly the prime minister recognises this was a very difficult decision and was clearly an extremely sensitive one, and that there will be very strong feelings from the families."
Challenged over why Mr Brown would not comment, the spokesman repeatedly said that it was a matter for the Scottish justice secretary.
He said: "It would be wrong to reverse that and take a public decision after the decision. It was and remains a decision for the Scottish justice secretary."
He added: "He [the prime minister] found the scenes at Tripoli airport thoroughly distasteful and fully supports what the foreign secretary and Alistair Darling have said, and will continue to work with the Libyans to ensure that those things are not repeated."
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "Although the decision to release Megrahi was a Scottish one for which Gordon Brown was not personally responsible, the fallout puts the UK at the centre of an international storm.
"In these circumstances, it is absurd and damaging that the British prime minister simply remains silent in the hope that someone else will take the flak."
BBC political correspondent Norman Smith said Mr Brown would gain little from commenting on the issue, with the danger that he would upset the US government if he backed the release, or alienate the Libyan government if he criticised it.

So Brown disagrees with the American position, especially the FBI director, that the release has helped terrorists.

It seems there's a little game going on with the American position to distract the public with propaganda, wonder what else is part of this game?

[edit on 24-8-2009 by john124]

Emergency statement, by the scottish justice minister at the Scottish Parliament:

Points so far:

Uk Government was complicintly involved over prisoner release negotiations with Libyia. Which the Scottish Justice Minister refused to grant.

Uk Government gave assurances to US Families and Government, stating he would stay in the prison, in scotland, but did not come forward or give over any of this information to the Scottish Justice Secretary.






[edit on 24-8-2009 by Laurauk]

Originally posted by Laurauk
Uk Government was complicintly involved over prisoner release negotiations with Libyia. Which the Scottish Justice Minister refused to grant.

Uk Government gave assurances to US Families and Government, stating he would stay in the prison, in scotland, but did not come forward or give over any of this information to the Scottish Justice Secretary.

Sounds like the UK and Scotland are now 2 truly separate nations who share an equal level of incompetence.

I hear that the bomber is now on vacation - on behalf of the 270 victims we once again thank Scotland for your support.

reply to post by Retseh



Utter bull, He is at his family home, very ill.

Both the UK and Scottish Governments are not less incompetent than that of the USA Government. Look at thier incompetence and actions before you criticise others.

reply to post by Laurauk


He certainly didn't look all that ill as he punched the air walking down the steps of that plane to a hero's welcome.

Your actions in this matter are disgraceful, if you had any decency you would be ashamed, but we know otherwise.

The American administration and Americans themselves verbally attacking Scotland seem to forget that the plane blew up over Scotland, crashed into a Scottish town like a meteor, and wiped out and maimed Scottish lives and wiped out half the town of Lockerbie.


It would do well for America to remember that Scotland suffered and that the US does not have the monopoly over the lives lost and should not act towards Scotland as such. It tends to make the US look very stupid and insensitive.


As for Americans claiming the release of the Libyan will encourage terrorism: Are you seriously suggesting that releasing a convicted murderer with terminal cancer will encourage terrorism? Do you seriously believe it will fill up recruiting more than, oh let's see: The War in Afghanistan, The War in Iraq, The Palestine-Israel conflict and the US support of Israel, the bombing of Pakistan by drones and US Foreign policy in general? Seriously, get some perspective here!


I have heard there are forum discussions on the internet talking about Americans threatening to blow up British airliners, and of course there is now the threat of boycott of Scottish and and on a wider basis British products by Americans who disagree with the Scottish justice secretary's decision. This boycott on the basis of a decision disagreed with is just as immature, pathetic and stupid as the small-minded boycott of French goods in 2003 for the French not supporting the Iraqi War.


Boycotting on the basis of a decision you don't like is akin to a child throwing a tantrum.



It's quite simply embarrasing and is more of an affront to the Scottish victims of Lockerbie than the release of a man who may not have even commited the crime.


What next? Blockade Scotland with US Navy vessels? Cruise missiles smashing into Edinburgh? Calls for regime change?



As for the accusations of Scotland being the last stronghold of Trotskyism....I do love the propaganda thrown at nations who disagree with America.....I'm just waiting for 'Scotland has WMD's,' (Which it does) or 'Scotland supports Terrorism'......well we've had the latter accusation, Scotland eagerly awaits being put onto the 'Axis of Evil'



The Scottish are not people to be pushed around by bullying from abroad, and will in all liklihood treat the absurd ranting coming from the White House abroad and threats of boycott by simpletons with the little time it deserves. The rest of Britain will stand behind them.



The Libyan man's blame for the atrocity is something which is under scrutiny, and Jim Squire, whose daughter was killed in the bombing, and is the spokesman for the Scottish victims' families, believes the man convicted did not commit the crime.



So before the condemnations roll in further to Scottish shores, it might be worth remembering that the man released may not have had any involvement in light of new doubt cast on evidence given against him at the time.


Perhaps if the US thinks Scotland encourages terrorism so much, perhaps they need reminding that Scottish soldiers as part of The British Army are currently fighting and being killed and maimed in what is called 'A War on Terror' in Afghanistan and also fought and died alongside US troops in Iraq when others had the common sense not to go there in the first place or leave already.


Might be worth remembering before the FBI director and US military staff and US political opportunistic band-wagon jumpers and ignorant ill-informed American citizens jump in and accuse Scotland and the UK as a whole of supporting terrorism.













[edit on 24-8-2009 by Regensturm]

reply to post by Regensturm


Excellent post...thank you for being so clear about a subject I find hard to remain calm about. People are forgetting this....the plane crashed here...it hit us...we dealt with it...and we lost people too.

I find it hypocritical in the extreme that we can be accused of supporting terrorism by a country whos citizens openly and proudly in the past supported and raised funds for the IRA, behaving like it was some badge of honour that they did that, without really looking at the damge it did. Hardly anyone in my family is untouched by that conflict, to some degree or other.

There is DOUBT about Mehgrani's conviction....maybe he chose to have his last few weeks with his family rather than working though the trauma of an appeal. Forget all the political machinations. Maybe it's just as simple as a *potentially* innocent and dying man's wish to have time at home.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
reply to post by Regensturm

 

Excellent post...thank you for being so clear about a subject I find hard to remain calm about. People are forgetting this....the plane crashed here...it hit us...we dealt with it...and we lost people too.

That's right, it happened here....I remember seeing on television the huge crater as if a meteorite had struck Lockerbie....I remember seeing on Television the cockpit of the aeroplane laying forlonly on it's side on a bleak winter morning, as emergency services tried to do what they could. I remember the country being shaken by the event.....only for Scotland and the UK as a whole to be accused twenty-one years later of supporting terrorism when a man is released on compassionate grounds for having terminal cancer when there is doubt about his conviction for that atrocity.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
I find it hypocritical in the extreme that we can be accused of supporting terrorism by a country whos citizens openly and proudly in the past supported and raised funds for the IRA, behaving like it was some badge of honour that they did that, without really looking at the damge it did. Hardly anyone in my family is untouched by that conflict, to some degree or other.

Indeed.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
There is DOUBT about Mehgrani's conviction....maybe he chose to have his last few weeks with his family rather than working though the trauma of an appeal. Forget all the political machinations. Maybe it's just as simple as a *potentially* innocent and dying man's wish to have time at home.

And for those unhappy at his release, perhaps they can take comfort in the fact that Terminal cancer is a death sentence.

Originally posted by Retseh
I hear that the bomber is now on vacation - on behalf of the 270 victims we once again thank Scotland for your support.

On behalf of the 270 victims ... ?????

You're seldom shy about expressing your opinions.

But talking on behalf of the dead is stretching things somewhat ... even for you.

reply to post by Retseh


Oh right I guess it was only americans who were killed eh

Oh and I know America's not hapy since SCOTLAND did not bow down to thier bulying.

Me be ashamed? of what? Of a decision made by an individual scottish minister, which I support, which is backed byboth the catholic church and the scottish church. Oh forgot we are not allowed to have compassion or moralls, according to those in the US. EVERYONE must abide by the US of A's rules..

Guess what NOT!!!

Since you are pointing the finger.

I could say the exact same for you and your country, You should be ashamed for all the arocities your country has committed, over the past 30 years, you should be ashamed for sponsoring terrorist organisations. You should be ashamed for your Governments invovlement in 9/11, You should be ashamed for sponsoring the IRA, who killed hundreds on British Citizens....

Shall I continue?

The world does not bow down to the US of A, it is about high time you remembered that.

I find it rather funny, the American Inelligence services know who was involved in the Lockerbie bombings, and they have done nothing about it. Talk about a stitch up.!!!


I also see there is talk on websites about invading us

Let you in a little secret!

We beat the Romans we beat the Vikings we beat the English so bad that they joined up with us. The Americans you think the muslims are bad pick a fight with us and we'll make them look like a bunch of wee lassies

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Laurauk]

I have to say, I find the evidence and circumstance of his conviction tenuous to say the least.

It seems to me that he was released not on compassionate grounds, but on moral grounds; if we aren't actually sure he did it, then why are we holding him in the first place?

Originally posted by Laurauk
We beat the Romans we beat the Vikings we beat the English so bad that they joined up with us. The Americans you think the muslims are bad pick a fight with us and we'll make them look like a bunch of wee lassies

Fighting terrorism...Glaswegian-style

reply to post by Laurauk


Wasn't Scotland entering into the 1707 Act of Union because they'd bankrupted their country trying to found a colonial empire, under the failed Darien Scheme?

And, for your history knowledge, no country has been invaded more in history than England by Scotland. And the mighty men of Northumbria beat you guys back every time (not that you weren't worthy adversaries, I'm sure).

Us pansy Southerners owe them a great deal of thanks!

Originally posted by EastCoastElitist

Originally posted by deltaboy
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, so you have to understand their jubilance. Have some empathy.

One terrorist, one bullet. No suffering. That's compassion. From our side of the pond, it looks like your nation has "compassioned" itself into becoming Britistan. What's the difference between London and Islamabad? Weather.

From our side of the pond you guys look like idiot Nazis, invading countries on a whim, beating your breast about how wonderful your country is... and lying to yourselves continually to keep up the pretence.

The guy is innocent. One of the Scottish relatives (interview posted earlier in the thread) recognises Megrahi's innocence. That puts him streets ahead of the American dolts who insist that he's guilty.

So, if you're so convinced that Megrahi is guilty, can you tell me:

• why was the baggage area for Pan-Am at Heathrow airport broken into on the night of the bombing?
  
• and why was this kept secret by the UK government for many years?
  
• why we haven't heard from the baggage handlers at Heathrow who loaded two items of extra luggage (one of which matched the description of the bag that contained the bomb) onto the flight?
  
• why various warnings were ignored yet (IIRC) the South African premier changed his flight to an earlier one having heard about an alert?
  
• why the CIA removed one body in particular from the wreckage?
  

And when you're done answering those questions, I'll have some more.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by rich23]

IF the scenario was that of an AMERICAN was convicted in ANOTHER country without significant evidence...Americans would have welcomed him home in the SAME manner! I think it's a example of how we should be. Let the man go home a live his 2 months. Americans set their egos above their humanity and its starting to get annoying. There are those who are in favor of him being set free who WERE VICTIMS(family) and there are those who acknowledge that there wasn't too much evidence. Just a shop keeper who said he bought a shirt that was apparently wrapped around the bomb. Which I don't get how that's conclusive being the aircraft disintegrated. but I guess the shirt surived..or a piece of that "one of kind" men's shirt .. But since the Americans are all pissy the whole world should sit up right and listen. AGAIN EGOs ... is this not the same country who releases sexual predators so they can kidnap,rape and murder little girls? And is not the same country who gives a murderers slaps on the wrist? YES IT IS! My brother was shot point blank in the head right in front of his 3 year old daughter. The guy ran off....the 17 y/o who was driving the car didn't get #...the guys 16 y/o pregnant girlfriend didn't get #...the mom who threw the gun in the Ohio River and hid him for 2 weeks didn't get #....And the guy who did it...well lets just say he was on parole anyways and got sentenced to 15 years...5 of which was because he was a felon in the possession of a firearmand in 7 years he'll be up for parole again. But with this country is DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO. Point is, if it were the other way around we would have welcomed him home in the same exact way.