Being "relaxed" about sexuality is one thing... But we need to ask ourselves why she's "suggestively" dancing with a pole on stage? Entertainment? OK.

Who is she entertaining? Her teenage fans?

OK. Sure. If it sells. Will her music sell more if she throws a couple of erotic moves in there? Who will be buying the music because of it?

I'm unaware of any 16 y.o. guys willing to endure her music...

But what about the 50 y.o. guys watching these kind of videos? Did Billy consider that?

In the end the sad part is that Miley is missing out on her childhood. Look at Britney. She did the same thing. What happened there?

Bottom line is - teenagers will do teenage stuff. No doubt about it. Parents should educate their children and let them make their own decisions. But trying to further your career by doing the "adult thing", is not the same thing.

Is it healthy for society as a whole?

Edit: Grammar.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Gemwolf]

I feel like this thread is evolving into something else...

Going on the 'setting limits' idea, I entirely agree. As I said, I think our attitude towards sex and the role it plays in our culture is part of the cause...but what do you think about mothers who actually EMULATE the sexuality of their daughters? I see this all the time. Where is that coming from?

Also, in reference to the above post, I need to mention again that if the POLE is inappropriate, then her performances as a whole are as well. And that goes for the Jonas Brothers as well. If parents are going to complain about the pole, they should have seen it long ago.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by El Davicho]

the talk" about sex is one of the biggest taboo's out there.
yet, we have kindergartners that are already feeling up on each other in the playground. Maybe we should move, "the talk" to the 1st grade.

Originally posted by Debsturrs
the talk" about sex is one of the biggest taboo's out there.
yet, we have kindergartners that are already feeling up on each other in the playground. Maybe we should move, "the talk" to the 1st grade.

I heard Obama wanted to teach sex ed to kindergartners. Lol.

The reality is that a sixteen-year-old is basically sexually mature and capable of siring or bearing children. Sexual maturity varies, but by 16 most people are capable of starting a family.

Our society has placed an arbitrary age limit of 18 on people for the "age of consent". This is not a rational number, just a convenient one. Before that age, a person is not deemed capable of making a proper decision about whether s/he wants to have sex. At 18, a person is deemed to know. Again, arbitrary, but they had to come up with a limit, and that was the one that was chosen.

Pornography involving anyone younger than 18 is illegal, period. Also, sexually suggestive images are generally illegal if they involve someone younger than 18. For example, Calvin Klein ads often depicted younger women in seductive poses (not showing any body parts); this got him into trouble for child pornography.

I think that there is enough exploitation of women, and in particular underage women, that anything remotely suggestive of sexuality is probably to be banned. So, pole dances with kids under 18 would, in my opinion, be banned. No one is having sex, and no one is showing nudity or obscene acts; but it is suggestive all the same, and it is demeaning.

If someone who has reached the age of consent wants to demean him- or herself, then fine. Their choice. But if the age of consent is 18, then the age for sexually suggestive dances or other behavior ought to also be at that same age.

Personally, I'm not so sure an age of consent is so important anyway. Kids are finding ways of having sex when quite young. The best you can hope for is that they take precautions to prevent unwanted pregnancies and diseases, and that no one is victimized by predators. I'm not sure an official age of 18 does much to help. But as long as that's the age, let it be the age for all manner of suggestive, erotic, obscene, or other sexual behavior.

As Gerald Celente said in one of his interviews, "We are a nation of slobs." How about we have a girl who has some kind of dignity, grace, and class instead of promoting herself like a hooker? Call me old fashioned, but all I see now is overweight slob girls with their clothes three sizes too small, tattoos and bras straps hanging out, scuffing along in flip flops looking like trash and talking trash. If she likes to entertain, let her practice some real dancing like ballet, be an upstanding role model for girls, and entertain us with that. A 16 year old, or ANY WOMAN grinding on a pole as entertainment. Give me a break.

Canadian here. im 16, lost virginity at 12, and am sexually active now, but am not sure why. a conscious shift happend to me to sum it up, and i dont feel the need for sex, weed, smoking anymore. i love my girlfriend, well i love all, and the reason kids are like this is because of main stream media. i dissected my self and found out the only reason i wanted sex is because everyone else did, once i found out its not about what eveyone else wants, i dont want sex. boom case closed. kids need to wake up and start leading not following.

Originally posted by calihan_12
. Every european i have ever known has been so (almost too much) open about their sexuality and they think its a beautiful thing, and why be ashamed of it?

Which is a DANG GOOD reason of why you should have some sort of personal adviser, someone who you can talk to about stuff.

I agree. You need to have a few intellectuals you converse with on the subject. someone with whom you can speak with NON-interjectionally

The real issue here is CONSUMERISM.

EVERY TIME we post on this we are only feeding the beast that will ultimately give us more of the latest downskirt pic of Miley's Coin Slot....


[edit on 21-8-2009 by drsmooth23]

Originally posted by calihan_12
i agree. americans are very prude when it comes to sexuality. maybe not behind closed doors, but in general, we are. people dont feel comfortable just talking about sex out in the open to anyone. its something that for some reason is still "taboo" for many people to talk about. I personally dont get it. Every european i have ever known has been so (almost too much) open about their sexuality and they think its a beautiful thing, and why be ashamed of it?

it is true though. parents dont have a single clue half the stuff kids in the teen years do. i sure know my parents didnt know anything i was doing.

i think if parents felt more comfortable talking openly about sexuality not in a "dont have sex until your married" way but in a normal, conversation way saying "i accept it if you are having sex, because that is only normal, but here are the pros and cons" , they would be much more successful having an open relationship with their kids and they might not act out quite so badly. ive found this to be true once i started opening up to my mom, i didnt feel the need to act out anymore, because she knew i was gonna do whatever i felt like doing and she accepted it.

I agree with quite a bit of what you said, however, we are a very different society from Europe, and that is good in my view. Many of our values, whether or not some may wish to acknowledge such, stem from the fact that we are a Christian Nation. I do not want to be the same as Europe, nor do most Americans, and I feel that we should cherish our unique cultural aspects. I fail to see the fascination with why we should in any way, shape, or form attempt to follow modern European models of society. They are by-in-large losing their morality, and they have plenty of problems of their own in regards to issues of "Sexuality" due to such.

Originally posted by wayno
The more you try and hide sexual matters, the more "creepy" and yet enticing you make them. You highten the energy value ten fold.

As soon as you ease up and start talking about it openly, the energy level goes way down it just becomes another part of life.

Spoken as a North American still trying to get over the prudish attitudes I grew up with, not from my parents, who were European, but from the rest society here.

Which is why holding the Christian value of sex, only with your perfect wife, make you able to harness that sexual energy and put it towards whatever you want (hopefully something very very good for me and you!)

Originally posted by calihan_12
i agree. americans are very prude when it comes to sexuality. maybe not behind closed doors, but in general, we are. people dont feel comfortable just talking about sex out in the open to anyone. its something that for some reason is still "taboo" for many people to talk about. I personally dont get it. Every european i have ever known has been so (almost too much) open about their sexuality and they think its a beautiful thing, and why be ashamed of it?

I don't think it is entirely cultural either - I have always been open and honest about the 'act' as opposed to the 'love' and the difference between the two. When I was younger, I found it frustrating that it was more or less a game, to score points, where I considered it more a chance to please someone else - that is true pleasure. I couldn't give a toss (well.. ) if I ranked up as a stud or not, I was more interested in pleasuring someone else...

Stands to this day... I might not have a score card to brag about, but I don't want one. I want one person to have had a wonderful and tender time. That is what makes me feel good; not the bragging about how much I got on a weekend, etc.

But to each their own, I guess..

gotta love a country where you can buy a freaking rocket launcher or any gun as a personal defense weapon and no one cares, but a 16 year old girl, hot as hell does a sort of pole dance and everyone goes "bad parents! shes only 16 and crap, booo". Janet Jackson shows her nipple and OH NOES ALL HELL BRAKES LOSE!

Lol crazy people there across the ocean... in europe if she wanted to actually make a headline like that she would have to strip full naked and she would only be talked for a day... lol

Hope this isn't too off topic, but this is exactly the same with America/Europe and guns/violence. Sometimes I wish I could just go to Canada, but then I'd imagine Canada will soon be overthrown by us anyway, much as if I were to start my own country. It's a shame that people try to repress things like sex, seeing as it's the main aspect of life for living creatures. It's when you tell someone not to do something that they do it. SO the coverage of people saying that this pole dancing is bad, is well.......not helping, just making it worse. And the media does it in a reverse psychology way, parents do it in a not knowing just caring and looking out for their children way. We've been brainwashed by the media.

Over in Germany the music videos often portray nudity, like oh I don't know, any random Scooter vid. It's just a normal part of life, it's us in our natural state, so it is accepted. Repressing something is unhealthy, you are basically bottling up thoughts AND emotions. Don't do that.

I sounded like a prude and don't wish to comment

[edit on 31-8-2009 by theEXxman]

I believe I will chime in on this one:
For starters most parents, in America, do not want to think that their children are going to get sexual until they are 18. When asked about sex education at the schools, most parents tend to bulk about such. It is hard for a parent, and especially one who has one child, to see their child growing up. Then you add in culterual expectations, then you are going to see different perspectives on what is viewed as sexual and is not. I have been in Europe as a child, seeing the works of arts, including the nude figures of both male and female. I think that we should look at ourselves and say that children are going to be curious and want to know about sex. We should also take the time to explain to children, but done in a tasteful way, and include the consequences of those actions. Ignorance may be bliss, but it can be deadly.

For my own part, my parents set me down and explained the facts of life, to include that if I got a girl pregnant, it was enforced that I would be responsible for the child, that they would not take the responsiblity. That needs to be stressed to the children as well.

Blame "America's shame on nudity" on Puritans.
Overall, Religion + Nudity = Electricity + Water with a human in the water

I talk openly about sex with all my mates and people I meet! I don't get why people seem embarased about it.... Its just natural and everyone eventually has sex