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GOP can't win so they cry foul; say dems need 80 votes

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posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by Credge
 

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...


Please allow me address a few problems with your post... First of all, swapping one crappy system for another crappy system is NOT reform! The single-payer system is failing badly in other countries and has NO place in a Capitalist society. Yes, reform would be wonderful, but so far NO ONE is talking about "reform", they are discussing "Replacement".

Now, if the Democrats are so beholden to having the government run the whole thing and they refuse to "Quit" as you have put it, then you all had better be prepared to pay the ultimate price - a complete trouncing in the next mid-term elections.

Your assertion that the Republicans don't have a plan couldn't be further from the truth. Several prominent Republicans have offered countless ideas with respect to healthcare reform, but the reality is that they are NOT single-payer systems and are therefore considered dead on arrival by the liberal majority.

You are wlecome to read about them HERE or HERE or HERE. In fact, if you Google it, you will find dozens of articles discussing varying proposals offered by Republicans. You are being both partisan and disingenuous in your assertion - VERY liberal traits that are not appreciate by a vast majority of Americans. This is why the "reform" you support has very little public support!




posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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I don't have a problem with Obama trying for bipartisanship. I really think it's quite admirable and it's something he promised to do. And he's done it time and time again. To the point that I'm sick of it.


The Republicans are fighting everything he does tooth and nail, regardless whether they approve or not. Their mantra is "Damn the Country! Obama Must Fail"!

It's time for him to release the party of "no" and get on with his agenda that he was elected to bring about. They had their turn in the government. Hey, Obama! - Get on with it!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Except, guess what?

All the plans you guys gave me, there is not one plan that is accepted by the GOP as a majority.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


The day Obama wants bipartisanship is the day I become a progressive, socialist liberal. The man and his minions have been fueling the partisanship flames since the first tea party rallies back in April. His bipartisan banter was nothing more than campaign speak.

They want nothing more than to squash any and all opposition to Obama and his policies. The demonizing of the anti Obamacare crowd by Dr. Obama, his staffers and those in direct power on the hill (Pelosi, Reid, Waxman) speaks volumes about Obama'z desire for bipartisanship.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by kozmo
 

Yes, everyone is Marxist and bad if they want health care reform.

Universal health care? Well, it's socialist!

What does that mean, ladies and gentlemen?

Well, you see, since the rest of the modernized world has universal health care, that makes all of them socialists!


Yes, yes and YES!!! NOW you're getting it!!! "Reform" - and I have no idea how many times I am going to have to explain this to you - does NOT have to involve implementing a single-payer plan. Do you get that yet!?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Hey ya hunkahunka

The republicans aren't changing the rules.
They are stating that a certain number is needed for it to be considered 'bipartisan'.
And just like the dems, they are dragging their feet to get something they want.
Both sides do it.
Isn't it time to dump both sides and go for a 3rd (or 4th) option?



reply to post by kozmo
 

MY HERO!!



Originally posted by jibeho
The day Obama wants bipartisanship is the day I become a progressive, socialist liberal.

Yep. He doesn't care.
Just like any other politician he just wants it passed for his own glory.


[edit on 8/21/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho
The day Obama wants bipartisanship is the day I become a progressive, socialist liberal. The man and his minions have been fueling the partisanship flames since the first tea party rallies back in April. His bipartisan banter was nothing more than campaign speak.



You're absolutely correct. He's claiming bipartisanship, but their idea of such is to offer the Republicans in Congress a few insignificant scraps from the table, all the while forcing them to choke down several other provisions that would cause a revolt among the GOP's constituents.

I'm not naive enough to claim that the GOP has been taking a bipartisan approach themselves, mind you, but its hard to argue that the Dems have been anything close to an honest broker on the issue themselves.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by kozmo
 

Well, Kozmo, tell me, what plan do you want?

You seem to agree that health care is screwed up in this country, so what kind of plan do you want?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Mak Manto
 


Plan?

Start with tort reform. One step at a time. A massive instant overhaul is begging for trouble.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Credge
 

Whatever you want to call it. A plan, a tort reform, a project, a design.

What is the plan to fix health care in this country?

Since it seems the GOP is divided on how we should fix health care, we'll talk to ATS.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't have a problem with Obama trying for bipartisanship. I really think it's quite admirable and it's something he promised to do. And he's done it time and time again. To the point that I'm sick of it.


The Republicans are fighting everything he does tooth and nail, regardless whether they approve or not. Their mantra is "Damn the Country! Obama Must Fail"!

It's time for him to release the party of "no" and get on with his agenda that he was elected to bring about. They had their turn in the government. Hey, Obama! - Get on with it!


Hopefully you'll maintain this attitude when the house swings back to GOP control in 2010. Of course there are no guarantees, but if Obama continues to let the Democratic leaders in the house and senate call the shots, it may be 1994 all over again. Better that than a repeat of Spain 1936.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The Republicans are fighting everything he does tooth and nail, regardless whether they approve or not. Their mantra is "Damn the Country! Obama Must Fail"!


Kinda like Bush, right? Didn't matter what he did. He could have approved Dove Bars for breakfast for every member of Congress, and the Dems would have whined and found fault in that. How's that shoe? Looks nice, but a bit tight, isn't it?

I really hope Obama does pass his healthcare program without the help of the Republicans. Then, when it implodes like Medicare, the finger can be pointed at one person: Obama.

Of course, that won't fix things, and everyone will still be screwed, blued and tattooed.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by Mak Manto
 


The GOP isn't split, the democratic party is. The GOP has no stance on it because it widely doesn't seem to view it as a problem. I don't agree with that, but that's the stance they have.

As stated, a few republicans have brought up some plans, and they're all small one step deals.

I would suggest to start with Tort Reform. Wait an election cycle and go after something else if results aren't significant enough. After Tort Reform go towards something like health insurance regulation.

Drastic changes lead to drastic results. If you take things one step at a time, you can more easily correct poor results, and that should be a key thing.

Another thing is that 1,000+ page bills are not good. I would never sign a bill that long 100 pages is even pushing it. 10-50 pages should have enough to deal with any sort of problem. When you see 1,000+ pages on a bill you know that tons of lobbyists, politicians, and other weasels have had their hand in it.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If the GOP wants this to be a bipartisan bill, then they should bloody well vote for it.


A bipartisan bill is wishful thinking. These guys are so used to having their way, they forget what it feels like to be in the minority. I agree with the others. It's political posturing. But oh, the testes they have!

My hope is that Obama and Company grow some and pass this bill whether there's bipartisan support or not.


Bipartisanship only happens when the republicans are in control and the democrats follow like puppies licking at their boots.

Bipartisanship is over, it won't happen, so the democrats need to "grow some" and do what the majority of American citizens have said they wanted to happen. The majority of the citizens of the USA want health care, we should get it.


Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The Republicans are fighting everything he does tooth and nail, regardless whether they approve or not. Their mantra is "Damn the Country! Obama Must Fail"!


Kinda like Bush, right? Didn't matter what he did. He could have approved Dove Bars for breakfast for every member of Congress, and the Dems would have whined and found fault in that.


No, you are wrong. I did not like Bush, did not vote for him, I am mainly independent. BUT, I did want Bush to do things differently, I wanted him to be a good president for this country, though yes I disagreed with many many many of the things he did. I NEVER said I wanted him to fail meaning this country to fail. I wanted him to actually do what the citizens wanted him to do. Same as I feel now. A big difference if you ask me.

Wanting someone to fail, and wanting them to do things differently are two complete opposite ways of thinking about the situation.

Even now, I want a government that actually does what the majority of the people of this country want the government to do. At this time that happens to be health care for everyone. If you like being gouged by private insurance, I will happily stand by while you give your money to a greedy health insurance company. I want health insurance for my children, that takes care of my childrens health needs, not the companies pocketbook greedy wants.

Harm None
Peace



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
We are the CUSTOMERS folks. The govt. allegedly works for us. Where is the customer focus.


Truer words could not be spoken.

75-80 votes? Whatever happened to a simple majority?

And, I can not how many votes this gets to pass, I care more that the elected representatives are forced to have their vote = they get the smae healthcare as we customers.
Maybe then we'd get a reasonable reform.
As it stands now, I see to make them care what happens to John and Joan Q Public.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by amazed
The majority of the citizens of the USA want health care, we should get it.


Well, not the people in Congressman Eric Massa's district. They are against it. Too bad, tho, because he already said he's going to vote for it, anyways. So much for doing what the people want.


Originally posted by amazed
No, you are wrong. I did not like Bush, did not vote for him, I am mainly independent. BUT, I did want Bush to do things differently, I wanted him to be a good president for this country, though yes I disagreed with many many many of the things he did. I NEVER said I wanted him to fail meaning this country to fail. I wanted him to actually do what the citizens wanted him to do. Same as I feel now. A big difference if you ask me.


No, I'm right. There are Dems out there that would vote against anything Bush said or did. Didn't matter who would be hurt by it; Bush wants it, they were against it. Now, the Republicans are doing the same thing with Obama. I'm not saying that's right, but it's probably happening.


Originally posted by amazed
Even now, I want a government that actually does what the majority of the people of this country want the government to do. At this time that happens to be health care for everyone. If you like being gouged by private insurance, I will happily stand by while you give your money to a greedy health insurance company. I want health insurance for my children, that takes care of my childrens health needs, not the companies pocketbook greedy wants.


Nice idea, but the track record of the government handling things sort of sucks. Look at Cash for Clunkers; a lot of dealers still haven't seen any money from that. I can't wait to see what a goatrope Obamacare will be.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Yeah, what is this B.S.?
How can a small minority hold up those who have full control of our government?
This is nothing more than a finger pointing practice session and an attempt to blame it on the repubs if and when this thing fails.
In fact, I predict it will be the dems that will attempt to change the rules soon by making an attempt to lower the bar to 50.

You think the townhalls are full now, wait till then.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by Credge
 


Dude, we're changing ALL OF HEALTH CARE AROUND.

We're not just changing a few features here and there.

Why do you think it's called a complete overhaul? It's going to be over a thousand pages.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Why would it be so bad to take our time with healthcare reform since it is such a major issue. Why does this have to be passed with urgency? The bill is huge and noone fully understands it from cover to cover. Before I signed the contract at my gym I made sure I understood what I was entering into, and thats just to use some excersize equipment.

John Mackey makes some great suggestions on how to fix the current system. For his suggestions, what he got in return was people boycotting his store, Whole Foods. Here is a link to a post I put up about it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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• Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.

• Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.

• Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.


SOURCE

My post has more to do with the fact that he is getting boycotted, but, I really wanted people that did not wanna click links to get an idea of what he is suggesting. These are just a few examples.



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