GOP can't win so they cry foul; say dems need 80 votes

What is this BS?

www.salon.com...


So now the GOP decides to attempt to change the rules yet again?

It's amazing how many of these members of congress don't even know how many votes are required to pass a bill.

Sounds like their trying to pull a Kennedy.

Yes, it is politics and the Reps are trying to set the bar on what bi-partisan means. Is 60 Dems and 10 Reps bi-partisan?

I'm just asking because I don't know. To be honest, I have never thought what a bi-partisan vote looks like.

Anyways, Reps aren't pushing no legislation to change the number of votes needed to pass. All the Dems have to get is 60.

The GOP isn't attempting to make an actual rule change here, nor could they accomplish one. No, they're merely stating that if the Dems want to claim bipartisan support, they need to have significantly more than one or two votes from the Republicans in order to do it. I tend to agree with them.

Honestly, I wouldn't consider a bill that has 58 Democrats and 3 Republicans supporting it to be 'bipartisan,' either.

In the end, its just completely meaningless political posturing. In reality, the Democrats need to worry a lot more about getting the 60 votes necessary to break a Senate filibuster than they do about whether the Republicans would portray a final bill that goes to the president as 'bipartisan'. At the present time, I'm not even sure they have the 51 necessary to ram it through using the 'nuclear option.'

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You mean like the way Sentaor Kennedy wants to change rules that he pushed to change for his benefit just a few years ago?

If the GOP wants this to be a bipartisan bill, then they should bloody well vote for it.

A bipartisan bill is wishful thinking. These guys are so used to having their way, they forget what it feels like to be in the minority. I agree with the others. It's political posturing. But oh, the testes they have!

My hope is that Obama and Company grow some and pass this bill whether there's bipartisan support or not.

There sure is a lot of moaning and complaining by Democrats about Republicans. Did the Dems forget they are in power and can pass whatever they want?

It seems to me they are making a half hearted effort at healthcare, waiting for it to fail, and then blaming Republicans who have no way of stopping them. The MSM is backing them on this as well. I heard clips of James Carville on CNN saying he hoped the Republicans filibuster and kill the deal. Only problem is Reps don't have the headcount to do this. Lucky for Dems their CNN audience (what is left of them) probably isn't smart enough to realize this and just believe whatever they hear spouted.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well, as a liberal, I'll say this.

I'm not against bipartisanship, but the Republicans here know that if they move it up to 80 votes, health care will not be voted on.

I'm tired of waiting. We have the controlling majority here in the Senate.

I could give a flying #$@^ if the Republicans want this or not.

I want health care reformed, and if that means that they won't be apart of it, fine by me.

Though, changing the rules around will not work.

The constitution states to go by the majority of the Senate.

51 votes or more equals the majority.

Sorry, Republicans, but the Democrats will get this done without your help.

I read the story, and from what I can gleen from it, the statement was intended to imply that for certain members of the GOP congress to consider the health care bill "bipartisan", then 70 or 80 votes in the senate would be required. Not for passage, but for certain members of the GOP to consider it "bipartisan", it would need 70 or 80.

It's just more GOP whining, noise making and obfuscation. Nothing new here poeple, move along.

The only way to attain a true bipartisan bill would be to scrap the current versions and start from the beginning. They would also need to invite and accept ideas from the citizens and their representatives from both sides of the aisle. No more Dem. only closed door meetings. Time to get to work and create a solution that will actually benefit the people and not the govt. Coca Cola and Pepsi spend more effort in launching an ad campaign than the dems have spent on this plan. (focus groups, market research, feedback, etc etc,) We are the CUSTOMERS folks. The govt. allegedly works for us. Where is the customer focus.

Funny how Obama is now blaming the GOP for stalling this disastrous plan. The bill is garbage and the majority of the US population agrees. Obama wants to blame the GOP for this B.S. I am surprised that he hasn't tried to blame Bush for its pending failure. The Dems have the Super Majority and they still want to blame the GOP. God help us. I dare them to go it alone on this legislation. They don't have the stones to do it. These idol threats are pure child's play. Give the GOP something to work with. Perhaps the Dems can incorporate components of the Patient's Choice Act. etc etc.. blah blah

Suck it up Obama. You own this mess. Now deal with it like an honorable man that you pretend to be.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by jibeho]

What you libs seem to keep forgetting is that the Dems could have already passed the health care bill. They didn't need any Repub votes. Seems to me they can't even get their fellow Dems to vote for it. So, whose fault is it exactly?

This bill is a piece of crap and even those in the Democratic party think so or it would have already passed - Repubs and voters be damned.

But. you just keep on blaming everybody else but those in your own party who are keeping it from passing if that makes you feel better.

Do I think we need reform? Absolutely, but this health care bill doesn't do what needs to be done.

reply to post by jjkenobi


That's exactly what's happening. The Democrats know their effort to pass this healthcare reform package is itself on life support, largely because some of their own members are jumping ship, so they're flailing wildly at the opposition, hoping they can make something... anything... stick and in doing so, draw attention away from their own infighting.

And that's the reason their poll numbers are tanking. The American people aren't entirely stupid and they know the Dems have the votes to pass this if unified, regardless of what the Republicans do. The more they try to blame Republicans, insurance companies and the little old grannies showing up at town hall events, the more ridiculous they look.

My suggestion to the Dems? Stop spending all of your time whining about the GOP and the 80 year old grannies at town hall events and start concentrating on consolidating support among your own Congressional members. Do that, and you might actually stand a chance of passing this thing.



[edit on 21-8-2009 by vor78]

Let me begin by saying - I am an Independent! I cannot stand either the Republicans or Democrats.

Here is my hope. I hope the Democrats are stupid enough to pass this sh*tty bill. They will get massacred in the mid-term elections as more than 70% of Americans oppose it. I hope the Republicans sit back and allow it to be passed. They will also get massacred in the mid-terms for doing nothing about it. I honestly feel that we are finally going to see the rise of a third party, one that represents the majority of American citizens - not Marxists, not religious extremists and not the corporations and special interests. THEN in 2011 we can repeal all of this BS and start anew!

reply to post by inthesticks


Obama wanted bipartisanship on this bill, I guess, to make everyone feel a little better. If the Republicans had a hand in health care reform, in changing a few areas they didn't like of the bill, we would see on it.

NO, that wasn't enough. They don't health care reform AT ALL!

So, I say go back to the original plan.

Screw them, and we worry about ourselves.

Don't want to work with us? FINE. We have the majority in the Senate and the House.

We don't need your help with change.

I'm done with it. I'm done with the fighting, I'm done with the insurance lobbyists trying to scare people, I'm done with the town hall meetings that end in temper tantrums.

Originally posted by Mak Manto

Obama wanted bipartisanship on this bill, I guess, to make everyone feel a little better. If the Republicans had a hand in health care reform, in changing a few areas they didn't like of the bill, we would see on it.

Your idea of bipartisanship is bogus.

Bipartisanship doesn't mean "We want this REALLY REALLY badly and we're going to do it no matter what regardless of what you think. Is there something you'd like so you don't cry about it you big babies?" It means "We both agree this needs to be done. I'll concede certain things, you concede certain things, and we'll get this passed in the interest of everybody."

That isn't happening. Die hard liberals wan't a public option while conservative democrats don't.

The democratic party is the one that is torn right now. The republican party, almost as a whole, doesn't want a public option. Conservative democrats don't either. There's nothing bipartisan about this.

It's either "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!"

Ron Paul calls it like it is. It's the Dems that are holding up Obama's grand vision. You can't get more in control of the gov't as the Democrats have, you want your gov't run healthcare then do it already, what part of the republicans being irrelevent is so hard to understand? It's put up or shut up for the democrats.

reply to post by Mak Manto


Yes! by all means, just do it already! For me, I cannot see a greater debacle to finally unseat the nasty beast known as the Democrat Party! You want it, go get it and stop all of the BS grandstanding. Just be aware - the MAJORITY of Americans are completely opposed to this. The Dems can rest assured that passage of this bill will will become the Albatross around their necks. Nothing would please me more than finally having the likes of Reid, Pelosi and all of their Marxist ilk treated as the pariahs that they are!!!

reply to post by Credge

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...

reply to post by kozmo

Yes, everyone is Marxist and bad if they want health care reform.

Universal health care? Well, it's socialist!

What does that mean, ladies and gentlemen?

Well, you see, since the rest of the modernized world has universal health care, that makes all of them socialists!

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by Credge

 

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

And the only reason why the Republican party is not torn is that they don't have a plan!

Their whole argument right now is that Obama's plan is bad! But, no! They still say that health care needs to be reformed.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.

What a bunch of hypocrites...

Republicans have submitted plans and ideas. Problem is they go directly against what is in the Dem health care plan. A few examples are allowing dependents up to age 25 stay on the parent's insurance, tax credits to poor-to-middle-class to buy health insurance, allow states and small business to pool insurance, etc.

Look I know you can use Google but here is one of the links for you.
www.cbsnews.com...

The Republican goal is aimed to get insurance to those who don't have it and want it. The Dem plan is aimed for govt to take over everyone's health care.

Originally posted by Mak Manto

I don't have a problem with changing a few areas they didn't like, but WE'RE NOT QUITTING THE REFORM.

Right.

Liberal democrats are the one with the problem. Republicans don't want a public option. Obama saw this and stated that a public option wasn't needed.

Then the liberal democrats came back and said "NOPE IT MUST BE IN!" So Obama back tracked or flip-flopped, however you'd like to paint it. Or maybe he lied.

And now the conservative democrats are saying "NOPE IT MUST BE OUT!" So Obama, having a headache, is on vacation .

All the while republicans just want nothing to do with it.

It's the democratic party that is divided on the issue. The republicans know exactly what they want out of it.

The first part of bipartisanship must be a complete understanding of exactly what your side wants out of the bill along with an understanding that there must be concessions made to reach a goal that is acceptable. The democrats do not have this and the republicans have realized this for a long while and aren't participating in any of this because nobody knows.

To make this entire issue even more silly and absurd, there are 5 bills floating around. The fact that anybody is doing any sort of convincing is a poor sign.