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Why I am now a liberal.....

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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17 years ago I considered myself right of center. The conservatives at that time seemed to be more level headed, and less visceral. Liberals at that time were shrill and used "political correctness" to institute a reign of terror. At that time, conservatives thought people with the right qualifications, e.g. Ivy League educations, should be in important positions that involve complex decision making. They scoffed at the idea that someone is qualified to make complex policy decisions just because they were a good mother or a nice guy..

It seems that things have turned around 180 degrees. Conservatives mock Obama and his Ivy League credentials and want Sarah Palin to run the country because she can drive her kids to hockey practice and bake cookies in a single day. They thought George W. Bush should run the country just because they would much rather have a beer with him than Al Gore or John Kerry. They are shrill and use the labels "terrorist" or "nazi" to squelch intelligible debate.

I cannot say I agree with everything Obama and the democrats stand for. Yet, I find myself siding with the Democrats because there is no other credible person to side with.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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I can see your point...but I believe you don't understand yourself.

I would say that 17 years ago, you were a REPUBLICAN, who aligned themselves with CONSERVATIVE values.

Now I would say you are a Democrat, who are ACTING more conservative in their speeches...just not their policies


Remember, not all conservatives are Republican, and not all Republican's are conservatives.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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You probably shouldn't align with *any* of them. This isn't about parties anymore. This is about control and power. They don't actually believe the crap they spill out on sound bites. They just want to get a reaction from you. As another thread pointed out, they even pass the same laws but mock each other as they are doing it!

Just be yourself, man. No need for labels.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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You can espouse a certain ideology such as pro-socialist or pro-free market but you have to agree that both parties are too powerful for their (and especially our) own good.

I used to be pretty far left, now I think a balance is a good thing, it promotes freedom. 3rd parties, including leaders, are generally made up of intelligent, decent people that are tired of the establishment power structure. Although I wouldn't want to live in a nearly anarchist state that some of them want, it would beat living in a corporate state.

Both corporate parties act like goons when they are in power and stifle dissent. The image is all that matters, branding is key.

Both are supported by the bankers; you can see the massive campaign donations and lobbyist influence at work.

The bankers support them both because they're so alike, they're just like rival football teams. They divide people against each other when we all want the same thing basically, equality, justice, and liberty.

The french have got a great slogan, it covers everything. No wonder the government serves the people to a greater extent there.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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I would say you feel like you have to chose a "side". I could be wrong about this, but it seems like you buy into the 2 party system, and you feel because one "side" no longer represents what you stand for, you need to switch to the other.

That isn't the case, it is possible to believe what you want to believe and not choose a "side". They are opposite sides of the same coin. Neither party is sensible.

Just reading what you said reminded me of a thread earlier today and the "right" are starting to use Saul Alinsky tactics, and they are doing it much better than the other "side".

Don't buy the lies, don't choose a side. (side note: that is pretty good I just made that up.
).

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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It looks to me like both parties are self destructing. Perhaps this is an intentional part of a bigger playbook.

The cross over you mention, is a likely example of how both parties are interchangable at any given time and when it is convenient.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by midnightbrigade
 


I think the Democrats are more conservative today as a whole because many centrists defected to them. I find myself aligned with the democrats not just because of their policies, but because of their priorities.

Democrats seem to prioritize issues like: health care, regulating the3 financial industry, balancing the budget, and solving the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. They might not have the ideal answers to these problems, but at least they are focussing themselves in these areas.

Republicans care about: what gay people might be doing in the privacy of their own homes, whether their children will be forced to learn the Earth is more than 6000 years old, and whether we should be drilling for more oil.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 



Oh, please don't misunderstand me...I get your point. What I was referring to is that the party lines don't...well...line up with their "values" anymore.

What I mean is, Democrats are pushing health care. Democrats are trying to get us out of Iraq. Democrats are pushing social programs.

Liberalism is a mindset that it's the governments job to do these things. If that's how you feel now, then yes, you definitely are a liberal now.

Republicans believe in corporatism, and war, and big gaines on Wall Street for a select few.

Conservativism is the mindset that government should be small, and personal responsibility should be the driving force in altruism and business.

I was concerned that you were getting the whole idea mixed up, but I see that you weren't. My bad



[edit on 20-8-2009 by midnightbrigade]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


Don't feel as though you have to be a "member" of one of Their Parties. They are both the same anyway, if you look deeper into their inner workings. Look toward more progressive people, I like what Ron Paul has to say. Among other things he is pushing to audit the Federal Reserve. But I understand he is just another politician. I have a feeling that within the next 8 years, more than two parties will be prominent in American Politics. So, hang in there, be true to yourself.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Oatmeal]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
17 years ago I considered myself right of center. The conservatives at that time seemed to be more level headed, and less visceral. Liberals at that time were shrill and used "political correctness" to institute a reign of terror. At that time, conservatives thought people with the right qualifications, e.g. Ivy League educations, should be in important positions that involve complex decision making. They scoffed at the idea that someone is qualified to make complex policy decisions just because they were a good mother or a nice guy..

It seems that things have turned around 180 degrees. Conservatives mock Obama and his Ivy League credentials and want Sarah Palin to run the country because she can drive her kids to hockey practice and bake cookies in a single day. They thought George W. Bush should run the country just because they would much rather have a beer with him than Al Gore or John Kerry. They are shrill and use the labels "terrorist" or "nazi" to squelch intelligible debate.

I cannot say I agree with everything Obama and the democrats stand for. Yet, I find myself siding with the Democrats because there is no other credible person to side with.


I see your point...

I know the Conservatives in England think the modern state of the U.S equivalent is
barbaric. There is lack of principle here now, the shrillness you notice is a big part of it,
say ANYTHING to achieve the objectives... DEATH PANELS, UNPATRIOTICS, HE'S, HE'S
AN ARAB... Much of the party will say or use the most divisive things fathomable,,, but NOBODY stands up and says "WE DO NOT NEED TO WIN WITH BS, WE SHOULD STAND ON OUR PRINCIPLE". NO, the whole lot of them will fall in line and repeat ANYTHING, Literally. This is the conservative crisis here and now...

I know personally I RESPECT the BRITISH Conservative mind very much, they say what they mean, the admit their true motives and the stay away from the easy
ridiculous divisive rhetoric.

Glad to have you, we are a rag tag bunch, but your concern might one day be my concern so it is my concern today.

You can't stop progress!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
You probably shouldn't align with *any* of them. This isn't about parties anymore. This is about control and power. They don't actually believe the crap they spill out on sound bites. They just want to get a reaction from you. As another thread pointed out, they even pass the same laws but mock each other as they are doing it!

Just be yourself, man. No need for labels.


Speaking from the UK, I find it cannot strongly ally myself with any of the main parties.

I would never vote Labour given the bastardisation of the party since the 90's (i.e. it existed to represent the working man but does not anymore).

I voted Liberal Democrat at the last election as i'm more in line with their values than any other party. Problem is, they just cannot get enough votes to form a government and as Labour are the predominant part in this area, it feels like a wasted vote.

The Conservative party will form the next government and i believe in "some" of their values and buy some of their commitments such as scrapping ID cards.

Overall though, I cannot say i "belong to" or strongly support any of them.

What matters to me are my views on specific subjects.

I feel that its time party politics was over, no more whipping, no more memberships - just citizens standing for election on a platform of their beliefs.

This is essential to maintain a modern democracy. The old systems just don't work in the 21st Century.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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How about you just state your views and forgo the affiliation.
Seriously.
I mean, if you believe in limiting government, and support abortion, what party do you belong in? I am not "dissing" either position, but requesting that everyone dump this left vs right BS.
EVERY AMERICAN should be registered independent, IMHO, as almost no one follows the complete party line.
All people should be independent---this is the American ideal.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:10 AM
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The Repubs have simply blown it. The people in charge there now are clueless.






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