You got a problem with God?

what is with people blaiming things on god...about imperfection? i thought he only made adam and eve... not anyone else...go study or something.

Originally posted by platipus
what is with people blaiming things on god...about imperfection? i thought he only made adam and eve... not anyone else...go study or something.

He also made Lilith according to the Torah.. yet unlike the Eve story she was made from the earth as well not Adam's rib. She left in a huff before Eve's creation as adam had control issues. apperently.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by platipus
what is with people blaiming things on god...about imperfection? i thought he only made adam and eve... not anyone else...go study or something.

He also made Lilith according to the Torah.. yet unlike the Eve story she was made from the earth as well not Adam's rib. She left in a huff before Eve's creation as adam had control issues. apperently.

nothing new, you should get my point though.

reply to post by riley

I see nothing immoral about seeking knowledge..

Adam and Eve didn't eat off of the Tree of Knowledge because they sought knowledge, they ate off of it because they were told, by the serpent, that they would be as gods themselves. In fact, God even told them what would happen if they ate off of the tree: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17

..where does it say he was sinless?

1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth"

1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by riley

 

I see nothing immoral about seeking knowledge..

Adam and Eve didn't eat off of the Tree of Knowledge because they sought knowledge, they ate off of it because they were told, by the serpent, that they would be as gods themselves. In fact, God even told them what would happen if they ate off of the tree: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17

So why would a father want to do deny his children knowledge?

..where does it say he was sinless?

1 Peter 2:22 "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth"

1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

..sorry but there are many stories where Jesus sinned.. (disobeying parents for example) and he was meant to be "just a man" so would either carry original sin or would not be "just a man".

reply to post by riley

So why would a father want to do deny his children knowledge?

Look what's happened because of the knowledge of good and evil. Now that we know the difference, there's sin: lying, stealing, murder, death, adultery, blasphemy, idolatry, etc. It's not knowledge like math or history.

Furthermore, God didn't deny us this knowledge. He loved us so much that He gave us the choice to love Him back. If He didn't it wouldn't really be love.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by Totakeke

Putting the Ancient Sumerian texts away for a minute, where is the evidence that genesis happened? Proportions of it are impossible. Plus 6.5 thousand years ago, humanity had already spread throughout the world and there was at least one civilization already.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by riley

 

So why would a father want to do deny his children knowledge?

Look what's happened because of the knowledge of good and evil. Now that we know the difference, there's sin: lying, stealing, murder, death, adultery, blasphemy, idolatry, etc. It's not knowledge like math or history.

Morality is the result of millions of years of social evolution not a folk tale.

Furthermore, God didn't deny us this knowledge. He loved us so much that He gave us the choice to love Him back. If He didn't it wouldn't really be love.

The story is that he punnished Eve for eating from the tree of knowledge which suggests (the charactor of) god considered knowledge to be a bad thing.

Unless it was "his" of course.. thats a very oppressive kind of personality not a loving one.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by riley]

reply to post by Welfhard


I'm not current with archaeology. I'm sure you could find something on Google about Genesis.

reply to post by Totakeke


Considering that it's an allegory plagiarised from older religions, it's no wonder there are only creationist sites. I would recommend you look into Ancient Sumer (now southern Iraq) with particular attention to it's creation myth. Between 5~8 thousand years ago these people were telling a very similar story to what you have explained and the rest of Genesis. Man made from dirt/clay and the great flood are major examples.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by riley


Millions of years of social evolution....according to scientists man has not been around that long.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by riley

 

Millions of years of social evolution....according to scientists man has not been around that long.

What I actually said was:

Morality is the result of millions of years of social evolution not a folk tale.

..I never mentioned morality evolving in man exclusively.. we may have inherited some traits from older ancestors.

It also depends on how you define "man". Homo sapiens sapiens have been around for 130,000 + years but our ancestorial linage diverged from apes about 5 million years ago so yes some scientists might say man has been around for millions of years. Some of the examples in this site look very "man like":

www.wsu.edu:8001...

Besides which morality and social ethics are not traits unique to human beings.

reply to post by dodgygeeza

It it obvious that this OP has no intention of having a well thought out discussion

NOTE- I will provide not one critique, in the course of this thread.

yes, it is obvious.



[edit on 25-8-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


I've got a prayer shout out for you randyvs.

Pray for the people on this thread. Not that they will believe in God within 24. hours, even though it would be nice, but for their faith. I guess it doesn't seem logical to me that most of these guys are atheist because of what man has committed in the name of God. If any claim to have read the Bible on here, fully, then I claim they are wrong. It might have hit home when they read what Jesus said in Matthew 15:8-9

"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."

But they must have forgotten that.

If it is lack of evidence, so be it.

Just know randyvs, that you and I know that the heart is the center of it all.

I will pray with you as well. Pray that they will find the time to read the Bible. For them to talk with God and mean it. To start on the path of true life. If I may suggest, conclude with the Lord's prayer if you know it.

reply to post by Water-tastes-good

Just know randyvs, that you and I know that the heart is the center of it all.

well i could not agree w/ you more. your post is exactly what i was hoping to see alot more of. maybe the title to this thread was wrong.
thought i'd bring out more like you though. anyways thanks for posting.
i have alot to pray over now,that's what it was all about.

reply to post by Water-tastes-good

I guess it doesn't seem logical to me that most of these guys are atheist because of what man has committed in the name of God

I think you'll find that if you talked to more atheists about such things, you'll find that it's not what people do that sways their opinion of the idea of God, it's the fact that there is no real empirical evidence for it's existence. It has nothing to do with peoples and their faiths, it's less pitiful than that.

reply to post by Welfhard


Isn't that always the case though? There is no evidence of God? So I won't believe in Him?

That brings me back to my first post. Then you look at the people that worship that God. "I don't like them." Then you claim to yourself, "Since I don't believe, I'll call myself a free-thinker. There is no God." Hardly a valid argument for anyone. What it comes down to, if there turns out to be a Heaven and a Hell, then all your evidence comes from your heart and the Bible. Now tell me, you can't find evidence for God? I have the so-called atheist non-evidence of God sitting right next to me on my left. I suggest you read it.

reply to post by Water-tastes-good

Isn't that always the case though? There is no evidence of God? So I won't believe in Him?

Without that evidence there is no reason to believe.

That brings me back to my first post. Then you look at the people that worship that God. "I don't like them." Then you claim to yourself, "Since I don't believe, I'll call myself a free-thinker. There is no God." Hardly a valid argument for anyone.

No it's not, that's why what any person does or thinks doesn't sway the probability of God. An argument for god has to stand on it's own merits. And besides, I don't-don't like believes, as people they are fine, rather it's what they do that I don't approve of.

I suggest you read it.

1stly, I have read it, it was hilarious. 2ndly, the bible is no more evidence of god, than the Rig Veda is of Brahman.

What you should understand is that there are 100's of thousands of faiths spread across time and the vast majority have unique gods. I think it's possible God may exist, and if it does, there is no reason to default to Christianity or any of it's countless denominations.

It's not Christianity or bust, compadre.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Welfhard]

"Without that evidence there is no reason to believe."

Let me put it this way. You're reading words. Guess what? I'm reading words that are apparently coming from a guy named Welfhard. But hey, I've never seen him. Well, there is only one way to conclude this type of evidence by careful analysis, he doesn't exist.

"No it's not, that's why what any person does or thinks doesn't sway the probability of God. An argument for has to stand on it's own merits. And besides, I don't-don't like believes, as people they are fine, rather it's what they do that I don't approve of."

Well, don't go after what a person does or thinks then you won't have to worry about the probability of God. But I'm not arguing. I'm telling you firsthand to read the Bible. I agree with you. Many believers use religion to further their own endeavors. Hence the verse in my first post? You read that yet?

"1stly, I have read it, it was hilarious. 2ndly, the bible is no more evidence of god, that the Rig Veda is of Brahman."

1stly my friend, no you didn't. Know how I know? Your knowledge on the subject proves otherwise. 2ndly, you have no idea what the main message of the Old Testament was nonetheless the New Testament. I'll tell you one thing, they are actually pretty enlightening. Not really hilarious. If you found it hilarious then I'm going to have to wonder why it's hilarious. How can you say that something is not evidence if you don't know anything about it? You even search for God? Or I may be wrong, care to correct me? No internet surfing for the answers by the way.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

reply to post by Welfhard


Alright my friend. It's not my job to provoke anger from you or anyone else that reads my posts for that matter. I should be more respectful and if I hurt your feelings, know that I am sorry. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be typing this so don't throw it back into my face. I'm very fed up with people claiming they don't believe God because of no evidence. In my opinion, if you read the Bible (really) then you would find a little bit of evidence if you actually used some thought. But I'm not calling anyone stupid, just lazy. When you figure out the real message of what is really going on in this life, then feel free to believe what you will. It's hard to believe a person says they have read a certain long book because they told me they did yet learned nothing. Not talking about you specifically Welfhard. You will find it that when you read it, you will agree with it. Not just read a verse and close the book because you don't agree with what it says. That is what I call very unintelligent. Anyway, you do not have to answer my questions and again I am sorry if I provoked anger. I'm trying to lead you to the Bible but I may not be doing the best job tonight. Again, if you do not have one, invest in one. Read it. Learn from it. Regardless you don't believe after, you will find truth. That goes for everyone else. I will be praying. Have a good day.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Water-tastes-good]