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You got a problem with God?

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posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 





But they are biased. They are religious. They start with the conclusions and reinterpret the science in a phoney, pretend-science religious garbage way.

Your're starting to sound a little whiney
Not in any way shape or form more than your evolutionists. Such is the
nature of man, in any race, religion, policy, any topic you decide to turn over.It is there .
But

Creationists see everything in the world that is around them


because all that is around them was created


Evolutionists close their eyes to all that was created



as if everything was created around them



[edit on 2-10-2009 by randyvs]




posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Welfhard
 





But they are biased. They are religious. They start with the conclusions and reinterpret the science in a phoney, pretend-science religious garbage way.

Not in any way shape or form more than your evolutionists. Such is the
nature of man, in any race, religion, policy, any topic you decide to turn over.It is there .


How is observing a process and attempting to learn how it works a bias? I'm just curious on the logic with that one ...



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I respectfully disagree. I personally believe that God is not as "perfect" as most Christians would believe. But to say that Satan is Fighting for good in this world is wrong. Hitler killed 17 million people, the swastika, yet another Satanic Symbol. Satanic worship, as in ritual sacrifices, wouldn't you consider that Evil too?

Satan did not want to be treated as equal, he wanted Gods power for himself, he wanted the worship to be directed at him. Its more a case of the creation turning on the creator.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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I believe in a creator and at the same time feel "It" the creator cannot be put into any neat little package as most religions like to try and do.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by ablue07
 


I believe in a creator and at the same time feel "It" the creator cannot be put into any neat little package as most religions like to try and do.


Right so there is some sort of deep down knowing of this god. ...


Have you ever heard of a faith feed-back-loop? That's essentially what's going on here.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 

No actually, the evolution-ists (a creationist term which just means someone who adheres to science) just stick with the science.

I'll show you about the Discovery Institute. I read your webpage, you watch this video (which isn't even very long).



I can show you more if you like, but really. REALLY pretend for me that DI isn't a farce. Do it I dare you.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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Never had a problem with God. I certainly have a problem with the traditional view of God, though. That's not a problem with God. That's a problem with the clergy, i.e designers of organized religion.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


As I stated at the top of this page, such is the nature of man.
I'm not saying anything about what institute did what to who's
way of thinking falsely.
Speak to the facts of that essay. The only way the information could possibly be there is if were placed there.
You can not argue that fact.

I have a question I hope you will answer.
Why is it I always sense a desperation in posts coming from your side of the tracks.
As if your whole world will be blown asunder, if you can't make someone see things your way.
Especially when to look at both views with absolutly no biased opinion
what so ever.
(Something that takes a little practice.)
To look at just the face of each view, niether one seem remotely possible.
Don't you see that?



[edit on 2-10-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by sirnex
 


I respectfully disagree. I personally believe that God is not as "perfect" as most Christians would believe. But to say that Satan is Fighting for good in this world is wrong. Hitler killed 17 million people, the swastika, yet another Satanic Symbol. Satanic worship, as in ritual sacrifices, wouldn't you consider that Evil too?

Satan did not want to be treated as equal, he wanted Gods power for himself, he wanted the worship to be directed at him. Its more a case of the creation turning on the creator.


This is the exact ignorance I am talking about. You, a follower of God only hear what God wants you to hear. For three thousand years the swastika has been a symbol of power, strength, life and good luck. Never in history was it used as a symbol of evil until Hitler, another follower of God used this symbol in God's war against those who shunned and were instrumental in his only begotten son's death. It is follower's of God like you who continue to slander and hide the truth. When people stood up for the Jews and fought against Hitler, it was only then did you Christians call this symbol evil.

Show where in the bible that Satan has threatened or committed any crime against man. You will find none, for Satan is not an evil force.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I have no "beef" with God but I can see how some would. When I told my Dad I was leaving the Christian church he said a similar thing "Why have you lost faith with God", I said I haven't, I've merely lost faith with the flawed human perception of God - namely religion.

Some believers are so mired, so dependent, on the flawed teachings of the modern Christian church that they would likely believe the word of a pastor before the word of an angel (if one were to show up).

The Bible and all religious texts are flawed as are the numerous human interpretations of said texts. The idea that this all-powerful Universal being would choose one religion, write one book, and damn everyone else to Hell regardless of their deeds is absurd.

Therefore it is not God we should have a problem with, merely the flawed perception human beings have of "God". I came to the conclusion if there is a God out there He/She likely despises religion and the division/unneeded guilt it brings...



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


The only way the information could possibly be there is if were placed there.
You can not argue that fact.


Yes I can. Watch me. You presume that information in placed there, I don't, nor do I have to. Evolution would make the information, once nonsensical, into ordered. That's how it works.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


Well you do unless you want to be wrong. Did you see the Question I have ? scroll back up.
There is one big difference though, at the end of all this debate you seem to take such intelectual pride in. At the end of both views.After all is said and done and we both solve," the great mystery".
I will at the very least be as happy as you are with the path I have chosen.

Something you can not say.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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TextI have no "beef" with God but I can see how some would. When I told my Dad I was leaving the Christian church he said a similar thing "Why have you lost faith with God", I said I haven't, I've merely lost faith with the flawed human perception of God - namely religion
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


very well said young man and i can't blame you for that. Don't ever forget what Christ did for all of us.You'll be alright.



[edit on 2-10-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I have a question I hope you will answer.
Why is it I always sense a desperation in posts coming from your side of the tracks.
As if your whole world will be blown asunder, if you can't make someone see things your way.
Especially when to look at both views with absolutly no biased opinion
what so ever.


Science does that for us, it's part of the methodology. Not all opinions are equal because not all are based on reason. Science eliminates biases as much as possible and makes conclusions as the evidence indicates. Faith does not. Science doesn't presume it's correct, as you presume your own dogma.

And frankly I really don't care what you believe, but if you're going to attack science with a poor understanding of it, I'm going to defend it.


To look at just the face of each view, niether one seem remotely possible.
Don't you see that?

I have been a creationist and I learnt the evidence and saw how stupid creationism is. I am not talking from just the face value of views here.

If you are a creationist, you have to overlook and deny great sweaps of the science in favour of what???? Faith? Defined as a belief based on no evidence? And a bronze age book?

No, don't be silly.


" the great mystery".

There's no mystery here.



Well you do unless you want to be wrong.

Fine. Evolution put the information there, pressuring the mutations into rarity or obscurity depending on how they affect the organism.


If you're going to argue evolution with me you should just know that creationists continually scoop out the same tired old arguments, all of which can be shot down fairly easy, and being an ex-creationist, I immediately have the advantage because I know the cards in your hand.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 
So evolution is your God. The great Mystery (now you even deny
that) is what happens after death. Unless you care to make yourself look
like
even more like a know it all. Or the Shell answer man, or whatever personality disorder that seems to plague you.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


So evolution is your God.


No, I don't have a god, I have no faith, I don't worship or pray to evolution, it's just an aspect of science. I fail to see how trying to make me look like a closeted believer somehow makes all my arguments go away.


The great Mystery (now you even deny
that) is what happens after death.


Oh well why didn't you say that? Oblivion is my best guess, but then again, I don't know and I don't have a problem admitting that. However fear of the unknown doesn't make me believe in fairytales.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by Ominousbeing
 


Then again evolution is still a theory

"Theory" in science is the highest degree of truth. Our understanding of Evolution is the theory, the phenomenon itself is a fact. That's why scientists say "fact and theory."



which is based on speculation, just like evolution.

And all of biology which lends itself to evolutionary theory. Evolution is the backbone of biology, none of it make sense outside of it.



[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]


I am actually talking about human evolution, evolution itself within organisms, and animals i believe does exist, because they need to change, to survive. Though if your saying that the Human evolution theory isn't based upon speculation, you're wrong.



Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by Ominousbeing
 



same as religion it is a theory,

Not in the scientific sense. In a scientific sense, hypothesis at best. Religion isn't based on observation and empirical evidence, merely wishful thinking - the antithesis of science and the scientific method.
[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]


Science is based on "wishful" thinking, that's how science works. That's what scientists try to do, they first make a theory which is purely fictional, and then try to prove it, and guess what Human Evolution has still not been proven, it's still a mere hypothesis, and yes same goes for religion, because it's giving a possibility of what might be (AKA a Theory), using some observation, it is impossible for religions to be based on pure imagination, there is some facts in the myths of a lot of cultures around the world.

I personally don't follow any specific religion, nor does any one religion make absolute sense, and in my opinion, absolutely following one thing is sheer stupidity. There is still multiple unknowns in our universe, and we're apart of that, any thing we find in the future might as well change everything we perceived to be at this moment.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


Evolution definetly a product of the mind of man.You can in no way say that about the Bible.It coroborates itself thru many authors over thousands of years. Your little theory, the first thing any human mind would reach for, after a conscious determined decision to deny the existence of a creator, has been around how long, Is truly a fairytale
dreamed up by fairys.
I unlike you, am growing embaresed at how many times my avatar is showing up in the thread i have created, so i'll check back.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by Ominousbeing
 


I am actually talking about human evolution, evolution itself within organisms, and animals i believe does exist, because they need to change, to survive. Though if your saying that the Human evolution theory isn't based upon speculation, you're wrong.


Actually the Human lineage is one of the most complete now. I'll let you look into it.


Science is based on "wishful" thinking, that's how science works. That's what scientists try to do, they first make a theory which is purely fictional, and then try to prove it, and guess what Human Evolution has still not been proven, it's still a mere hypothesis,


Uhhh no. First scientists observe a phenomenon. Then they conceptualise a possible explanation of the phenomenon.



posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Evolution definetly a product of the mind of man.

I do not deny that.


You can in no way say that about the Bible.

Yes I can because....


It coroborates itself thru many authors over thousands of years.

And what species were those authors? Human, therefore the bible is a product of the mind of man, divine inspiration or no.

When there are thousands of religions with dozens of holy texts, you can't say that yours is any truer than the rest. All the holy books contradict one another and all say the others are wrong. They can't all be right but they can all be wrong.

There is no evidence for any more than any other. And just because you really really really believe it "deep down in your heart" doesn't mean anything because everyone says that of their religions.


Your little theory, the first thing any human mind would reach for, after a conscious determined decision to deny the existence of a creator, has been around how long,

Well you're very wrong here as most people who believe in evolution are infact christian, and even odder, most christians in the world also believe in evolution.

Nowhere in the theory does it make any reference to god or a creator, therefore it doesn't deny a creator - evolution isn't atheistic. If evolution were atheistic, I would hardly imagine that the pope would endorse the science. :/


has been around how long, Is truly a fairytale
dreamed up by fairys.

That's odd. I wasn't aware Christians were permitted to be so snarky. The fact of the matter is this, you are now practically calling all of biology a fairy tale. Evolutionary Theory is considered the uniting factor, the backbone of biology in that nothing in biology makes sense without it.

The principles of evolutionary theory are possibly more than 2000 years old, and man utilised them a lot longer than that artificially selecting and breeding stronger, faster, fitter horses, meatier pigs, dedicated dogs from wolves, countless forms of crops, etc.

... I guess none of that happened then.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Welfhard]



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