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A Message To Christians... A Message of Peace...

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posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by VinceP1974
My God.. existence must be such a chore for you.

You have to love how you're the product of the most humane, wealthy , advanced civilization ever, a lot of it due to Christianity and yet you you (while conveniently saying nothing about what you do actually believe in... so you're basically a talent-less critic) call it evil.

I dont think your moral compass is worth paying any attention to.


Saying nothing about what I do believe in? Are you kidding?

I really don't even worry about what I say, I'm giving everything I need as I need it. I actually know the father, and my understanding comes directly from that.

What I "love" is how you've skirted the points made, and resorted to attacking me personally. Textbook.

I guess my moral compass would be straight if I blamed Islam for the worlds problems?


[edit on 8/22/2009 by badmedia]




posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



None of the sources you mention are legit.



All you have done is accepted the wicked, and because of that you will not understanding and you will walk in darkness. Because all the foundations of earth are out of course.


Uhuh..I think I see...Everyone else is wrong but you...gotcha...

Well I guess that puts an end to any argument I may have...since all my sources a not "legit" and "I accepted the wicked"...



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 




Like I said, as long as you're making the rules I can never win this argument.


Repeating something over and over again does not make it so.



But I have to warn you, that your argument basically amounts to this.


Sorry, but I find your warning rather silly..




You're not going to get in while you're still living in sin and committing atrocious acts that you are not repenting for.


Where have I said anything to the contrary?



And yet we still get blamed for everything even though we don't exist?


hhmm..where have you been blamed? And if you are defensive to certain accusations, what does that say about you?

Im not in to generalizing any thing. be it political parties, religious people or anything. And I challenge you to find any statement I have made doing such. Good luck! Your gooing to need it!



But the real question from the very start is, is the world the worst it's ever been because most people are Christian? Well that's just absurd.


I couldnt agree more!


Even though it may be the "biggest" religion, even though it is not actually a religion at all according to your logic,


Not sure wher you got the impression I dont believe Christianity is a religion. The rest of your post just boggled me and I have no idea where you got your assumption from...




posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by VinceP1974
My God.. existence must be such a chore for you.

You have to love how you're the product of the most humane, wealthy , advanced civilization ever, a lot of it due to Christianity and yet you you (while conveniently saying nothing about what you do actually believe in... so you're basically a talent-less critic) call it evil.

I dont think your moral compass is worth paying any attention to.


Saying nothing about what I do believe in? Are you kidding?

I really don't even worry about what I say, I'm giving everything I need as I need it. I actually know the father, and my understanding comes directly from that.

What I "love" is how you've skirted the points made, and resorted to attacking me personally. Textbook.


Why would I bother with your points. Your points are obviously absurd to anyone who actually knows the history of the country ... well i guess on second thought, that's probably a lower number of people than I assume.




I guess my moral compass would be straight if I blamed Islam for the worlds problems?
[edit on 8/22/2009 by badmedia]


Name me a war that isn't involved with Islam.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
Uhuh..I think I see...Everyone else is wrong but you...gotcha...

Well I guess that puts an end to any argument I may have...since all my sources a not "legit" and "I accepted the wicked"...


That is what your bible says.



John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


All you need to do is become like a child. What does that mean? A child is one who doesn't know, and because the child doesn't know it asks questions and seeks. But rather than looking and accepting the answers men tell you, you ask within for the answers.

It basically means to become agnostic. Which is being honest about things and just saying "I don't really know".

For me, I honestly didn't do that until I got to the point where I didn't trust any men. And I looked out into the world, with all this death and destruction and looked for how things could be in a peaceful or "heavenly place". I was far away from Church, didn't like religion at all. But as I did that, the commandments and their reasons became very clear to me, and then I had a vision of the father. At the end of that vision, I realized John 14:20. In that verse, it says on that day for a reason, because it is the day one becomes born of spirit. Nobody can really tell you John 14:20, it's something you experience for yourself and then you know it. That was followed by a period of about a month where pretty much all that I asked was answered(John 14:26). '

So you can mock me, call me whatever. But if you have not experienced that, then you are only fooling yourself.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by VinceP1974
I respectfully disagree with your very traditional (and the one I used to adopt) interpretation.

I believe the beasts are Babylon, Persia, Greece and Islamic Caliphate.

I explain myself here

The problem with that is that Islam does not fill the bill of the symbolism of the beast in Daniel, nor of the Little Horn. Islam has never been a world superpower, though it may be one in the future. The Little Horn has to do some very specific things, such as set the calendar, divine law, claim to speak with divine authority, and persecute the saints. The only person who fits those criteria exactly is the Pontifex Maximus, later known as the Holy Pontiff. That is not to mention that Rome is specifically mentioned in several locations with the symbolism of the “Seven Hills”.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by VinceP1974
I respectfully disagree with your very traditional (and the one I used to adopt) interpretation.

I believe the beasts are Babylon, Persia, Greece and Islamic Caliphate.

I explain myself here

The problem with that is that Islam does not fill the bill of the symbolism of the beast in Daniel, nor of the Little Horn. Islam has never been a world superpower, though it may be one in the future. The Little Horn has to do some very specific things, such as set the calendar, divine law, claim to speak with divine authority, and persecute the saints. The only person who fits those criteria exactly is the Pontifex Maximus, later known as the Holy Pontiff. That is not to mention that Rome is specifically mentioned in several locations with the symbolism of the “Seven Hills”.


Islam was never a superpower? please crack open a history book.

The Beast of Rev 13 indicates that the End Time empire will encompass the former empires of Babylon, Persia, and Macedonian (Alexender's).

The Roman Empire never held much land in babylon and when it did, it was not for long. And it never extended into Persia , and thus it never took all of Macedonian Empire either.

So Rome does not fit the requirement that it trample on the empires that preceded it.

Also, the Roman Empire lasted until 1453 ,, when the Ottoman caliphate defeated it. Catholic Church was not an empire. The Pope is not a king.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Not you that accused us. The original OP that started the thread implying that since Christianity is the biggest religion it must be to blame for all the worlds problems.

What I'm saying is you are either saying that all Christian faiths are just one big religion called Christianity and that Catholicism isn't actually a religion in and of itself, or you're saying that Christianity isn't a religion, and simply a grouping of different religions and not actually a religion in and of itself.

So either way, the only logical way to read your argument means you're either saying Christianity is not a religion and Catholicism is, or that Catholicism is not a religion and Christianity is.

That's because there is no mathematical way for both Christianity and Catholicism to both be two different religions, yet be the same religion. EDIT: One of the two has to not be a religion so it can act as the grouping category.

It's just plain maths.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by VinceP1974
Why would I bother with your points. Your points are obviously absurd to anyone who actually knows the history of the country ... well i guess on second thought, that's probably a lower number of people than I assume.


Really. So tell me, do you know how the constitution has been turned into a document of limited rights, rather than limited government? What is the purpose of the 9th and 10th amendments?


Name me a war that isn't involved with Islam.


Well, since you say I don't know the history of the country, how about the revolutionary war? Or how about the Civil war? Spanish American war? War of 1812?

ww1 and ww2 had battles in the middle east, but mostly because the British had long conquered them. But in reality, they didn't actually involve Islam.

Of course, if you knew your countries history, you'd know that we overthrew a democracy in Iran back in the 50's, and installed a puppet dictator because the previous leader wanted to nationalize the oil fields - which were owned by US and British Companies. It's also what caused the Iranian people to start hating us in the first place, because they knew what was going on.

Of course, in the 80's Saddam and Iraq was considered the model middle eastern country. We put him into power, and the country was actually a secular state - until after the last war, where Islamic things were put into place - under our watch.

And also in the 80's, we funded the Muslims in Afghanistan to fight the Russians.

So exactly what part of history do I apparently not know? You've really barked up the wrong tree.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 





It basically means to become agnostic. Which is being honest about things and just saying "I don't really know".


I think you missed the part where I said was not Christian in my first reply to you. I dont believe the story of Jesus Christ was divine...I have been arguing the traditional beliefs in Christianity. You have said they are all wrong. So be it bro!..no skin off my nose!

I am in fact agnostic, and if you think you are, then you are quite wrong. Agnosticism means the answers to whether a god exists are unattainable.

this has been my philosphy for years now...


And if you have made conclusions about God then you are in fact not agnostic...dont mean to burst your bubble or anything...


As for your beliefs..well... all the power to you. In my opinion it matters not what you believe God is. I have nothing to scorn or commend you for. As long as you are not into pushing your beliefs on me or mine, your good in my eyes!



So you can mock me, call me whatever. But if you have not experienced that, then you are only fooling yourself.


Let me just offer this bit of info friend...
if you are at the point of being very defensive about your beliefs, I would offer the advice to take a step back and re-assess your position.

Im not saying you are wrong. Not rying to mock you. I dont believe I have called you anything. But notice the times the word "you " is in your post...

I find it helps my point when I try not to include that word, and concentrate on "I"...Hope that helps



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 



that Catholicism isn't actually a religion in and of itself,


That is correct. Catholocism is not a religion in and of itself. It is Christianity. It is a denomination of Christianity. I think you may be looking for that word instead of a seperate "religion."

Christianity is most definitely a religion. Hope that clears it up...



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by VinceP1974
Why would I bother with your points. Your points are obviously absurd to anyone who actually knows the history of the country ... well i guess on second thought, that's probably a lower number of people than I assume.


Really. So tell me, do you know how the constitution has been turned into a document of limited rights, rather than limited government?



Yes. It was done so by the blatant disregard of the intention that the Constitution restrains the purview of the Federal Govt and that the Constiution achieves that by constraining the areas of lawmaking authority Congress was granted.

The entire Bill of Rights was objected to by some as being redundent.

since people have claim to thier human rights independent of the Govt, and since the Constitution did not authorize Congress to have the power to violate those rights, it would be unnecessary to have to explicitly state which rights Congress can't violate.

The fear was that by listing a limited number of rights, that only those rights would be regarded as being protected and no other rights.




What is the purpose of the 9th and 10th amendments?


To mitigate that the 9th and 10th Amendments were drafted. But all for naught since they were quickly ignored just as feared.

The 10th Amendment's main intention was to protect the inherent Soverignity of the States. Since it was the States that volunteered to cede some Soverignity to the Federal Govt.






Name me a war that isn't involved with Islam.


Well, since you say I don't know the history of the country, how about the revolutionary war? Or how about the Civil war? Spanish American war? War of 1812?


Are you dim? Name me a war going on NOW. Duh.

This is why I ignore your points.. i'd go insane.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by VinceP1974]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy


Like I said, the majority of the world are Christians... how could the world be in such a mess if they followed the teaching of Jesus? It wouldn't be, they are too concerned in seeing the evil in others that they can't see it within themselves...


The flaw is in the assumptions. Jesus said actually that there would be very few christians.


"Enter through the narrow gate.
For wide is the gate and broad is the
road that leads to destruction, and many
enter through it. But small is the gate
and narrow the road that leads to life,
and only a few find it" (Matthew 7:13,14).



By the broadest and most reasonable metrics that I've seen, here in the US, some 80% claim to be christians but only 4% have a Biblical worldview. The 80% who claim to be christians behave no differently from the worst sinner and unbeliever. The 4% who actually have a Biblical worldview demonstrate very different statistics.

The premises that constitute a Biblical worldview represent what I would call the very simple, basics of christianity, but apparently are rejected by most. Interestingly the number of catholics or even catholic priests who have a Biblical worldview is smaller than the general populace!

Barna Poll Biblical Worldview

Thus here lies the answer to the apparent contradiction. The enemy of your soul loves to make you believe that everyone is OK and that no one is in danger of the fires of hell.




[edit on 22-8-2009 by SevenThunders]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Okay then Catholicism is not a religion. Um.....Sure. well, I'll let them argue that out with you if that's what you really want to go with.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Okay then Catholicism is not a religion. Um.....Sure. well, I'll let them argue that out with you if that's what you really want to go with.


Well i think most people subscribe to the naming convention that.. "religion" is the category given to the common set of beliefs that doesnt' have a higher grouping.

Then all the little subdivisions are given category names like sects, schools, denomination, forms, etc.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


The 10th amendment is often refered to as "states rights", however the states are simply 1 part of it. The states themselves also have their own constitutions and they also work in this same way. All these are passed down to eventually the individual and freedom of choice. So really, it's about individual rights.

If I was a teacher, I'd give you a passing grade for your response. Except to say that it is the general welfare clause that bypasses the 9th and 10th amendments, to which politicians are able to do anything they can spin as being "for the good of the people".

As for wars going on "now". Fine. Then list me a war that doesn't include Christians.

Both are wrong. It is the actions/fruits that one can see the truth by, not the names in which they do those actions in.



[edit on 8/22/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


I think you may be confused as to what a denomination is.

It is a sect or smaller group of the same religionwithin a religion...

Like protestant...mormon...baptist etc. etc.,

they are all christian but different denominations.

All are denominations of Christianity..

Does that make sense?

All have the major common denominator. That you must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he died for your sins..

Even if you are non denominational you are still Christian as long as you believe this...



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by VinceP1974
 


The 10th amendment is often refered to as "states rights", however the states are simply 1 part of it. The states themselves also have their own constitutions and they also work in this same way. All these are passed down to eventually the individual and freedom of choice. So really, it's about individual rights.

As for wars going on "now". Fine. Then list me a war that doesn't include Christians.

Both are wrong. It is the actions/fruits that one can see the truth by, not the names in which they do those actions in.



Sorry you dont get to respond to a question with a question.

Well, you can respond however you want, of course. But if you want me to respond..



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


But there is a higher super set. Abrahamic religions that would also include Islam and Judaism. Then a higher super set of monotheist faiths. Then a even higher super set of simply the set called "religion". Where you draw the line is arbitrary and up to the debater.

This is what I was talking about when I said they get to make the rules, because they're cutting the pie however they choose, even though one could choose to cut the pie completely different based on different sets and subsets.

You could even recursively cut the pie down to each individual person on the planet and say there some 6 billion+ sub sets of religion on the planet if need be.

However, where you cut the lines on the pie doesn't prove anything because the lines are cut where your bias says to cut them.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by VinceP1974
 


In other words, you can stare at the finger you are pointing, but must ignore the 3 pointing back?

Pretty much says it all right there. You are just another hypocrite. Read Matthew 7. You are just pointing out the splinter in 1 eye, and ignoring the beam in your own eye. The only way to see the truth is to put yourself on the other side, and then you can see the beam in your own eye.

At which point you will realize it's just evil fighting evil, and both sides are wrong.




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