Were Dinosaur’s Angelic Experiments like the Nephilim?

I'm up to all sorts of mischief! My latest project (starting next wee) is creating a trail for the local Audubon society which will serve as a public trail through part of their property (I lead a very odd life, don't I?)



I am trying to overcome that by reading the original sources in the original language as well as any other things of similar age from that culture.



They aren't mentioned in the Bible. They are in the books of Enoch and Esdras, which are not the same age as the Old Testament. Esdras appears to date to 70 AD (after Jesus' death) and seems to some of the Jewish beliefs of that time:
en.wikipedia.org...

Since the Book of Enoch was written in the Ge'ez language, ithe earliest it could have been written is 400 AD:
en.wikipedia.org...

www.bellaonline.com...



People's beliefs change over thousands of years. It was an early British/English belief that the touch of a king could cure many diseases. Today, nobody comes staggering up to Queen Elizabeth and asks her to cure them with a touch.

There are region and time and culture differences in both books as well as in the Torah.



The tale of Satan is very tangled. ha-Satan is not the Great Devil but rather an angelic adversary. Although Lucifer is identified as an angel, this is an "after 70 AD" concept and not a truly ancient ("before 1000 BC") idea.



Early forms of Christian mysticism included going into channeling trances to learn all the names of the angels and demons so that they could be summoned and controlled. This isn't an old Jewish/Old Testament concept. And "Sons of God" is a different word than "angel".



But the oldest source (the Bible) never says this; it's only sources after 400 AD. The oldest part of the oldest source (Old Testament) doesn't talk about rebelling angels. Only the New Testament (after 70 AD) does. Numbers aren't given, though lore and tradition numbers them in the thousands (see the book of Daniel and other Biblical references.)
www.christiananswers.net...




Actually, it suggests two different groups. Nephilim were already around, then comes the B'nai Elohim after the Nephilim are established. It implies that they also left.



Angels don't reproduce, according to the Bible (see the Christian Answers website.) Hence, you can't have Greys and other ones.


Jesus answers this at the end of the chapter -- those who don't follow him. Not the Fallen... the unbelievers. And as the rest of the chapter says, these are ordinary men and women with ordinary lives. They're just "unbelievers."



Seriously... read the rest of the chapter. It's not about fallen angels. It's about humans.



Actually, they start occurring after television and tv programs in the 1940's. Before then, tales of abduction and sexual adventures by heavenly (or sky) beings were fairly rare.




No they don't!

Perhaps you can point to a lineage chart? I can't find one.


In Jewish lore, this would have meant that Eve had become tainted and she would be cast away from Adam and not allowed to be his wife any longer. Her offspring... ALL of them... would be suspect. It would be a spiritual pollution as well as a psychic pollution, and there would be no possibility of any pure line. Hence, Abel, the younger brother, would also have been born polluted as would the children after him. So there would be no "bloodline" at all.

Old Jewish lore and texts don't support the idea of a tainted bloodline of the Serpent -- according to them the real motive behind the murder was that Cain and Abel both desired to marry the same sister -- the most beautiful one of all their sisters:
en.wikipedia.org...


(the problem with THIS is that both these traditions are not the same age as the Genesis account. However, the notion of pollution of bloodline is very old. This is why there's a story of Lillith, Adam's first wife, and how she became the mother of all sorts of monsters and demons because she indulged herself with the Serpent.

Sorry if this is off topic but to point out something with regards to dogs and genetics. It's true that pure bred dogs are usually unhealthier than their mixed breed counterparts correct?

We as humans are more intermixed nowadays than ever. So are we getting stronger? Doesn't seem like it. Seems physically we are getting weaker i..e more cancer, more heart disease etc. Things that affect pure bred dogs more. But our planet is more polluted as well.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy

---

As a whole we are much healthier however living longer means we suffer more problem both from living longer itself and suffering effects from the environment we live in and what we do to our bodies.

There are some advantages of dying young, but not many.

reply to post by Hanslune

---

I'd have to disagree completely with you. Things like arthritis, heart disease, diabetes etc. are not normal processes of aging. Osteoporosis is not a normal part of aging. And you're also wrong. People are not living THAT much longer than they were 100-200 years ago. Afterall what is our average longevity age in the US for males? 74? that's pathetic. Our food supply is not nearly as nutritious as it once was. If you want to see positive proof Americans are much more unhealthier than their 19th or 20th century counterparts just look at children. Kids nowadays look frail, weak, with terrible teeth or they are overweight. Girls are starting puberty much younger than ever.............boys still look like boys well into their 20's. Weston A Price did some fascinating research on this subject back in the 1930s. Have you read his work? Just look at the fertility statistics and sperm quality of males nowadays. In fact there was a whole thread devoted to this subject here on ATS a few days ago. Americans and much of the west are turning into physical degenerates due to our nutrition and food supply.

Even talk to vets and they will tell you that overall animals seem to be unhealthier as a population than they were just 50 years ago. They see things nowadays on a consistent basis that were much more uncommon decades ago. Maybe it's pollution, food supply, toxins etc. Who knows. Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread or change the subject.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by Zosynspiracy]

[edit on 28-9-2009 by Zosynspiracy]

you ask: Were Dinosaur's Angelic experiments...


my reply, No....
There is a too much focused view that the early/primitive/primal Earth was actually governed by a host of Angles...some good some bad

IMHO, the Genesis account is mostly Allegory, not factual absolutes as this thread response alludes.

for hundreds-of-millions of years the Earth environs allowed sauropods
a type of large but ground hugging lizard creatures to thrive.
But, (suddenly in geologic time) the 'terrible lizards' i.e. Dinosaurs came to dominate the land masses and seas of the planet.

Here's a fact to ponder when considering all those various and extremely large creatures we call Dinosaurs....

A fish we today call a goldfish....can live its entire life in a small 2 liter aquarium(goldfish bowl)
but IF we release that same creature into a larger environment such as a Pond...it will grow to its full potential size...like a 30lb carp !

I don't go for all the spiritbodied 'Angels' having such a control over the plant/animal kingdoms, even able to direct/guide the process of evolution by virtue of mystical powers or scientific manipulations...

as an altenative, i'd suggest that an alien exploration party contaminated this planets' Bio-Sphere with (for them) were tiny microbes...
but to the 'scale' of the Earth's cosmological perspective...
these tiny creatures became oversized creatures because they were not contained in their own type of natural 'goldfish-bowl' .


s'cuse me, my mind has raced ahead of my thoughts...
but do youse get the general drift of the idea?

~to be developed and/or defended later in the couse of discourse~
thanks

Hmm....well if you do buy into the whole Adam & Eve thing then we can all trace our line to them. No one family can be more closely related to Adam than the other.

If Prince Charles' family line runs back to Adam, then yours does as well....


[edit on 29/9/09 by FatherLukeDuke]

There is that serpent seed of Cain theory going on too but we know from later Bible sources when Jesus says to the pharisees they are the Children of the Devil, was that because they did not believe him or was it deeper than that. Then again Canaanite region of Israel which was infested with corrupt giant bloodlines, goliath was one too, known as the philistine. So we know Philistine and Palistine have a name connection.

But don't underestimate the power of Angels, they are light beings, they can have whole influences of the process of the stars in the universe, their light can influence us and other stars too. So when they come to this planet they are still powerful, but once they fall and become corrupt they lack all those powers but have a few here and there.

My research just now brought me this.
maxpages.com...



[edit on 28-9-2009 by The time lord]

True, and tribal populations that seldom intermarry outside their own groups have frequent unique genetic problems.

Many thanks!

As for the "Sheep", there is two possiblities

1: They are taught a Myth is fable. Made up stories. Fiction.

Myth comes from the Greek word Mythos. Funny thing is that this means TRUTH.

Roman Mythology....Greek Mythology.... Roman TRUTH.....Greek TRUTH...
There are many others that could be inculded.

Throw in the prespective of the "CHURCH", and the little they teach the flock, and it is no wonder, many think this premise is some new age mysticism, or satanic worship, or pagan ideas.

Hello out there Sheep.

This is BIBLICAL. This is what Genesis 6 is all about.

2: They are not being taught HOW TO LEARN. Learning and studying is quite easy, once you KNOW HOW TO LEARN.

Schools do not teach you this. They teach you WHAT TO KNOW.

From this, it is sad to say, the premise of ORIGINAL THOUGHT becomes lost, and this leads to no one asking or questioning or standing up to argue. They go with the flow, and make no waves.

Of course I have some other ideas about this, but this is not the form to get into that.



The Book of Enoch, is quite interesting in this respect. I personally liked learning about their individual arts that they gave mankind after the fall.

www.sacred-texts.com...

This links to the Index of the Book of Enoch. It's a good read.



There are also notations on some of those who serve GOD in the following two chapters, along with the "TASKS" they have been given, including some of the "SENTENCES" given to the Fallen.

www.sacred-texts.com...

www.sacred-texts.com...

Some interesting things going on.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Ciao

Shane

It's nice that some things never change. Mischief and an Odd Life. I say good for you.

As for your very considered reply, I will state clearly, I understand exactly what you are offering. It's your perspective, and thats the goal, isn't it?

None in this forum can learn anything without having ideas and concepts placed in front of them to consider, and hopefully, with links offered, they examine this further, they learn and make their own minds up.






In another topic here recently, there was a questioning concerning the Lilith matter and reasoning for her lack of notation in the Books of Moses Genesis account.

I offer a similiar view on this here, as I shared in that dicussion.

I have a respect and love for GOD and Christ and despite my humanity and failings, attempt to live a Christian Life. I have some strange desire to understand the letter GOD left for me, and believe what was assembled in 300AD was still part of the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. I believe the Stories/Tales/Fables are truly factual and that there is Historical, Spiritual and Prophetic meaning for it all. From Genesis to Revelation.

I also believe GOD has used MANY OTHERS and these tools have presented DIVINELY INSPIRED works that have been either overlooked or dismissed for one reason or another.

I wish to make it clear to anyone reading this that I do believe in the Bible and the teachings it has for us all.

But I also believe the Bible is concerned with a Pedigree, or as it is noted in Genesis 6,

It is the Lineage of Adam (Genesis 2 Adam) to Christ that is the MAIN TOPIC within the Old and early New Testament. It is an important family tree.

Now this may not be the Sunday School Topic or what is noted in the Pulpits, but nevertheless, this pedigree is there for anyone who wishes to review it.

Now this is what I would offer to your point made above.

There really is no reason for any of them to be noted within the Genesis account. They have little or no important role in the story being related within the scriptures. We do not need to know Azazel taught Tubal Cain the art of Metalsmithing. It has little to do with Adam's decendants. Same thing with Lilith. She would have been from the 6th Day Creation of man, and may well have interacted with Adam in some manner, but it is not important to the Genesis Account. She is not Seth's mother, so there is no need to address her.

I trust you get my point.

I will not rehash our Enoch discussion, and get into that. Leave that for others to consider for themselves. I know your view and I am sure you recall mine. Let's leave it there.



And this is fully expected. Man has his own agenda and his own interest to promote. These will become incorperated within the Dogmas, Doctrine and Theology of all Religion. That's why we have so many, with so many alternative views on the same book, in the case of "Christian Sects" for example.



Ah, but Satan has many titles and monikers. Devil, Desolator, Dragon, Antichrist, Beelzebub, and I could go on and on with various alternative names from other sources outside of the Bible. Some can be found in Wiki.
en.wikipedia.org...



Yes, the rest of the chapter is about Humanity and what the Return of Christ will see.

It was the Example used, and the message within those three verses that refered to the Days of Noe. Those within those specific verses are speaking about those who where taken in the Flood. The Fallen, the Nephilim, and those who polluted their pedigree, with the Fallen. That is what occured in the days of Noe. So shall the second coming be. One will be taken, one will be left behind.



I agree 100%, You supported my view perfectly, but from that other perspective.



Here's the problem with this. Adam and Eve are not Jews. Noah wasn't a Jew. Abraham was not a Jew. It was the offspring of Judah that became Jews, so Old Jewish Lore really has little bearing on things.

Well, I hope your well, and good luck with the Birds!

Ciao

Shane

No disrepect intended FatherLukeDuke.

This is not correct. Genesis 1: 24 thru 31 covers this clearly. Day 6.

Man, both male and female are created/recreated and given the instructions to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

They are looked over and everything was good.

I could very well be able to trace my ancestory back to these peoples, apposed to Adam, who was created after the 7th day, (the day of Rest).

I think the Aboriginies of Austrailia can do this, since they have their own History which dates back some 14000 years. (I happen to believe this would have been the time of the 6th Day. The Age of Leo, the 6th sign of the Zodiac, and the number of man).

So it is not true that we all came from Adam and Eve. There would have been many more here long before this specific couple.

Your can review this at the following. www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Ciao

Shane