Obama Health Care 'Crossing Line' Between Church and State?

Thousands of religious leaders got a call from on high Wednesday when Obama reached out to Jewish and Christian clergy, urging them to push health care reform from the pulpit.

Obama spoke to about 140,000 people of faith in a conference call and webcast Wednesday evening. He and a White House official discussed the moral dimension of health care, telling the mostly Christian audience that "this debate over health care goes to the heart of who we are as a people."

But earlier that day, Obama went much further, asking about 1,000 rabbis to preach his political agenda in their sermons on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year -- one of the holiest days of the year.

The conversation was supposed to be off the record but was captured on the Twitter feeds and blogs of some rabbis who took part in the call, which was organized by the Union of Reform Judaism and included rabbis from other denominations.

Obama Health Care Pulpit Push

Has any president spoken specifically to religious leaders to push for a certain issue? I know that a lot of presidents use the word 'God' in their speeches in order to instill in their listeners, that certain actions and beliefs come from a higher power. But, requesting from religious leaders to push upon their congregation, a certain political issue is a tad unnerving.

Yup Obama wants to make going to church illegal if you do become a socialistist!

I got this letter and it says Obama is going to have a team of explosion experts
that will blow you up if you don't support the socialist programs!!!

Actually it is completely against the law for churches or other groups to speak "in any tangible way, about the vital issues of the day" if they are "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations."

After 20 years with Rev Wright he must not know that

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

Although Johnson proffered this as a "favor" to churches, the favor also came with strings attached (more like shackles). One need not look far to see the devastating effects 501c3 acceptance has had to the church, and the consequent restrictions placed upon any 501c3 church. 501c3 churches are prohibited from addressing, in any tangible way, the vital issues of the day.

For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out.

Did the church ever need to seek permission from the government to be exempt from taxes? Were churches prior to 1954 taxable? No, churches have never been taxable. To be taxable a church would first need to be under the jurisdiction, and therefore under the taxing authority, of the government. The First Amendment clearly places the church outside the jurisdiction of the civil government: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Source

Originally posted by crimvelvet
Actually it is completely against the law for churches or other groups to speak "in any tangible way, about the vital issues of the day" if they are "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations."

This is the EXACT reason why my church is not a 501c3. So I CAN preach about politics. Some people are initially put off by the fact my church is a 'for profit organization' until they learn why. And this is the reason why.

Thank you for posting this thread!

I'm really not a fan of Obama or any other presidents using religion this way. Especially WwJd. He really must be desperate to be a one term president oh well good luck back in "Our" world mighty one.

Again, separation of church and state is based on Jefferson's letter to the Baptist church assuring them he is against getting the state into their churches. It is not about keeping the churches out of the state. It is not in the Constitution, nor is it a part of any writing of any founding father other than the brief mention by Jefferson above.

However, I agree with the above post...don't ask churches to preach your state doctrine. That would be a violation of separation of church and state, and they can't do it anyway if they are tax exempt.

reply to post by IKnowNothing


To be clear. Please read the article linked in OP @ FOX News, not the "cherry-picked" morsels by OP.

It was a "listen-only" type conference call. President Obama did not call all these Religious leaders, It was arranged by a 3rd party group which does this a few times a year.

Another BLATANT piece of propaganda in the article states:

The conversation was supposed to be off the record.

First: NOTHING that the POTUS does is OFF THE RECORD!

Second . . . the call, which was organized by the Union of Reform Judaism and included rabbis from other denominations is an independent organization not directly related to Obama's administration in any way.

Here is what one of the Rabbi's said on his blog:

The intent of the call was less informative on Obama's position, but more for the Rabbis to explore how to address the health care controversy. . .

As a reminder, the motto of this site is to DENY IGNORANCE. Please heed the idea and learn to recognize DISINFO when you see it.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

I had asked about this separation of state/church issue in my thread.

Still neutral if he crossed the line or not.

Didn't Bush have something to do with the faithgroup Obama spoke to?