Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Lillydale

---

Seem to have problem with comprehension

Notice the firemen are commenting on such things as feeling the building
shake and twist, plaster falling and windows shattering from stress as
the structure warps. Hearing floors collapsing above them

All are signs that the structure is unstable

I can speak from personal experience - fighting fire in attic last month
As we opened up ceiling into the attic noticed the rafters supporting it
were shaking. Got our asses out of there fast! Turned out homeowner
had stored bunch of rolled up carpets in attic - absorbed water from hose
lines and weight was overloading the rafters supporting attic.

FF look for subtle clues about how structure is behaving - not doing
measurements of temperature and load factors. Things like which
way water is draining out of building to see if structure is tilting.

Its an art taught to you

Plaster falling is a sign that a steel framed building is going to collapse? You guys have to get your stories straight. Did they know they were coming down or not? I am having trouble finding any quotes from firemen stating that they saw clear signs the building(s) were going to collapse. Where did you see them?

FDNY Assistant Chief Joseph Callan: "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower." Source

Callan: "For me to make the decision to take our firefighters out of the building with civilians still in it, that was very tough for me, but I did that because I did not think the building was safe any longer, and that was just prior to 9:30."–Source

There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.

Firefighter Mike Cancel, Ladder 10:We could feel the building starting to twist above us. I called Ladder 10 three times, Ladder 10 roof to Ladder 10. There was no answer. I said we have to evacuate, the building's coming down. Again, there was no response.Source

PAPD Sergeant David Lim: On the way down, we were losing our lights & could feel the bldg falling apart. ...You could feel the building starting to collapse internally. I got down to about the twenty-first floor, when I met Chief Romito, Captain Mazza and Lieutenant Cirri, and they had come from the Police Academy to assist. And I remember, they were trying to make a stretcher for this fellow that had difficulty breathing.

So I told the Chief, I didn’t know if he knew that the other Tower was down. And I remember everybody starred at their blackberries. They had these special pagers I guess that told them when things were happening.And I remember showing the Chief the inside of the floor, because we were still in the staircase so you could see part of it: part of the building is already collapsed in, internally. So the Chief said, “Okay, forget about this, would you just carry him down?”(Lim later became trapped in the north tower B stairway. Source: 9/11 Commission Public Hearing testimony, day 1)

FDNY Firefighter Hugh Mettham: We reached the sixth or seventh floor and are met by many firefighters coming down the stairs, informing us that the upper floors are collapsing and that there’s a heavy odor of gas and fuel.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Lillydale

---

Plaster falling is a sign that a steel framed building is going to collapse? You guys have to get your stories straight. Did they know they were coming down or not? I am having trouble finding any quotes from firemen stating that they saw clear signs the building(s) were going to collapse. Where did you see them?

The quotes I posted (only a few ) reflect what the FF saw -

Deputy Chief Joseph Callan was in lobby when he noticed the plaster
falling from the ceiling and windows in the lobby breaking

FDNY Assistant Chief Joseph Callan: "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower." Source

Callan: "For me to make the decision to take our firefighters out of the building with civilians still in it, that was very tough for me, but I did that because I did not think the building was safe any longer, and that was just prior to 9:30."–Source

There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.

"obivious movement of the building"

These are clues that the structure is becoming unstable and starting to twist out of alignment.

Something all FF are taught to notice - subtle clues that something is not
right.

I certified as a fire safety officer which means on the fire ground I am
supposed to watch for just such things as rafters in attic shaking or windows breaking.

Here are some more quotes

"upper floors are collapsing"

Have indicated relevant phrases

So what part do you have problem understanding ?

I'm glad you got good marks in Physics. So did I. So did the people who went over all the information and forensic evidence. They weren't immediatley sure what happened.

But you were.

The firemen other people on the scene got a different impression of what happened, as well. The buiding were hit by planes. Uncontrolled fires and critical structural beams weakend to the point they couldn't hold their loads caused collapses. Steel weakens with increased heat. We learned that in physics.