National Geographic - 9/11 Science and Conspiracy Special 8/31/09

cant believe this thread still continues... wasn't it already proven that the Thermite NG used was regular grade, and not the same as the samples found near GZ?

this threads pointless, just another tool in the OS arsenal that's proven to be a dud.

reply to post by ugie1028


Exactly. If we say a tractor trailor hit a woman at a certain speed and knocked her 20 feet, who is going to "debunk" that by using a pickup truck at the same speed instead? An incompetent moron, that's who, or else someone who is intellectually dishonest on purpose.

In this case the grade of thermite makes a colossal difference. I can link to a DoD magazine discussing nano-energetics research at Los Alamos if anyone doubts me on that, or doesn't understand why smaller particles = a more energetic reaction. Because they do.

reply to post by bsbray11


I think there should be a HOAX in the title of this thread... its so misleading!!!

Originally posted by mmiichael
The firemen other people on the scene got a different impression of what happened, as well. The buiding were hit by planes. Uncontrolled fires and critical structural beams weakend to the point they couldn't hold their loads caused collapses. Steel weakens with increased heat. We learned that in physics.

Since when are firemen experts on such a subject?

What temperature is needed to weaken steal?

What temperature was the hottest fire?

reply to Lilly

There is a ton of stuff on the Pentagon crash here.

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

reply to post by mmiichael


wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

No wonder so many people are misinform, that website is nothing but disinformation period. You are reading nothing but lies. You should try picking better reading materials.

Since National Geographic is 67% owned by Bilderberger/Illuminatiist Rupert Murdoch, does anyone here seriously think that this documentary will promote anything other than the Government O.S?

PEACE,
RK

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
Since National Geographic is 67% owned by Bilderberger/Illuminatiist Rupert Murdoch, does anyone here seriously think that this documentary will promote anything other than the Government O.S?

PEACE,
RK

It gets worse, check this old thread of mine thread out when you get a chance...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

These guys are garbage, they produce and air garbage so that we will swallow garbage, and then they can get away with more of their garbage. Science Channel, History Channel, News Channel, Military Channel, I don't think George Orwell himself could have predicted the extent of this orwellian society.

Since when are firemen experts on such a subject?

reply to post by Lillydale

Since when are firemen experts on such a subject?

Because from the first day at fire fighting school you are taught that
building collapses kill FF

You are taught to monitor conditions leading to a collapse so can get out
in time

FDNY Assistant Chief Joseph Callan: "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower."

Callan: "For me to make the decision to take our firefighters out of the building with civilians still in it, that was very tough for me, but I did that because I did not think the building was safe any longer, and that was just prior to 9:30."

Firefighter Mike Cancel, Ladder 10:We could feel the building starting to twist above us. I called Ladder 10 three times, Ladder 10 roof to Ladder 10. There was no answer. I said we have to evacuate, the building's coming down. Again, there was no response.

FDNY Lieutenant Robert Bohack: With that as soon as I said that the building [north tower] made a groan like steel twisting. I didn’t have to tell those guys twice. We just started making line for West Street or the western side, the entrance we came in.

So I told the Chief, I didn’t know if he knew that the other Tower was down. And I remember everybody starred at their blackberries. They had these special pagers I guess that told them when things were happening.And I remember showing the Chief the inside of the floor, because we were still in the staircase so you could see part of it: part of the building is already collapsed in, internally. So the Chief said, “Okay, forget about this, would you just carry him down?”(Lim later became trapped in the north tower B stairway. Source: 9/11 Commission Public Hearing testimony, day 1)

Originally posted by thedman

Since when are firemen experts on such a subject?

reply to post by Lillydale

 

Since when are firemen experts on such a subject?

Because from the first day at fire fighting school you are taught that
building collapses kill FF

You are taught to monitor conditions leading to a collapse so can get out
in time

Which part of training do they talk about the structural integrity of skyscrapers that will most likely collapse even though everything indicates they will not? I did not ask when they became experts on being crushed. What conditions did they monitor, I ask you...what temperature were the fires burning at and what temperature would it take to weaken steal. Why did you avoid that important part of my question and attack the anecdotal crap?

reply to post by mmiichael


Thanks tons for yet another post to some website full of people's claims.

I want official documents. I can tell you what the coroner said about Shanksville, that is why I am not asking about that. Why can't you just tell me what the coroner said about the pentagon?

It takes no genius to smell something fishy about 911.

The way BOTH WTC towers collapsed in perfect pancake effect and pulverized, clearly pointed to presence of controlled demolition.

We need to also consider the phantom plane that hit Pentagon and another down in Pennsylvania which showed no doubtless wreckage.

These 3 incidents were vital 3 parts of 911.
If one failed to substantiate logical chemistry and physics, it simply meant 911 was a BIG FAT COVER-UP.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Why can't you just tell me what the coroner said about the pentagon?

Why can't you figure out how to do something when it's explained how? Maybe you should just to pay for a commerical document search services? There are plenty online.

Of course when you get what you ask for, you'll claim it as inadmissable.

Because the world's laziest Truther can't figure out how to look for things even on this site, I did a quick ATS Search Engine check. Read through the thread and links. READ - and of course madly hunt for some excuse to say it's not enough.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The following is information that shows the who's and how's of the collection of DNA evidence and the morbid tasks of identifying victims of flight 77 and the victims that died in the Pentagon. Please keep in mind, 5 bodies were not able to be identified as it was impossible to match what was left with the five missing people. Army Major James Cassella, a Pentagon spokesman stated in November of 2001, that they have exhausted all their scientific leads but were unable to match 5 of the victims.

First of all. In the beginning minutes post attacks, DMORT teams were dispatched to two of the sites. NY City WTC Coplex & the Pentagon. Teams were dispatched to Shanksville on September 13th.

For those that do not know, DMORT stands for Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team. They are a Federal Level Response team designed to provide mortuary assistance in the case of a mass fatality incident or cemetery related incident. They work under the local jurisdictional authorities such as Coroner/Medical Examiners, Law Enforcement and Emergency Managers. Please keep in mind that they are comprised of voluntary medical, forensic and mortuary professionals. How do they do it?

DMORT assists in identifying victims pretty much in a two step process that uses a sophisticated computer program for matching physical characteristics. They gather information from the families to assist them. X-rays, known tattoos, scars, Dental Records .. something that may contain DNA evidence .. this is called antemortem evidence. Or (pre-death). All this information is entered into a program called a WIN-VIP.

This program can assimilate 800 different item categories, including graphics, photos and x-rays. As forensic scientists (pathologists, anthropologists, odontologists) examine the recovered remains, they place their findings (that are called postmorten data) into WIN-VIP prograrm. Depending on the how much data is entered, the WIN-VIP system allows scientists to match the remains to their identity.

[...]

For the Pentagon there was a team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware that used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records.

So ... what was done? How was it done? Was it possible? Here we go:

At the centre of the identification process was the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, the main government agency for postmortem identification of bodily remains recovered from new and old military events. Its efforts were challenged by the destructiveness of the crashes; for forensic specialists, little was left to work with at either site. Nonetheless, advanced preparations for disasters proved useful, perhaps indispensable, to identification efforts. After the crashes, on-site responses were promptly provided by the federal government's regional Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT), a volunteer organisation of citizens and federal employees who provide forensic, mortuary, and family support services after disasters. The DMORT professional roster includes forensic pathologists, forensic anthropologists who specialise in osteology, and forensic odontologists. The crash sites were designated as federal crime scenes, so federal authorities could control access and supervise recovery of remains.

Each recovered item was then sent to radiography, photography, and DNA stations for initial identification procedures. Tissue samples from both sites were sent to the mortuary at the Dover, Delaware Air Force Base for analysis and matching with DNA samples from victims and their relatives. A team of forensic anthropologists from the army, the FBI, and the Smithsonian Institution was assembled and, mindful of the need to bring closure to grieving families, worked to identify victims as quickly as possible, working long shifts 7 days a week. This team was led by William C Rodriguez III, one of 51 board-certified forensic anthropologists in the USA, who is often summoned to solve difficult criminal cases. These experts generated a DNA profile from each tissue sample received, and also developed a DNA profile from known reference specimens, such as tissue from biopsy samples, Pap smears, extracted teeth, and saliva from toothbrushes. Surviving relatives provided blood samples. The scientists then analysed the DNA profiles for potential matches.

At the Pentagon, identification efforts ended on Nov 16, 2001; 179 of the 184 victims were identified, plus five profiles that did not match family reference materials, thought, therefore, to be the terrorists. No biological material was recovered for the remaining five people in the building or on the aeroplane.


To view the entire text:

www.thelancet.com...

[...]

very good article that explains is great detail the processes:

Naming the Dead — Confronting the Realities of
Rapid Identification of Degraded Skeletal Remains
S. M. Edson, J. P. Ross, M. D. Coble, T. J. Parsons, and S. M. Barritt
Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory
Rockville, Maryland

www.cstl.nist.gov...

Other Sources:
1 - www.dmort.org...
2 - www.dmort.org...
3 - www.hbo.com...
4 - www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

[edit on 20-9-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


Because I have already seen that and it confirms what I said, smarty pants. No bodies were found strapped in seats, now were they?

reply to post by mmiichael


Hmmmmmmm. STILL no mention of passengers strapped into aircraft seats, and most definitely no photos of passengers nor seats nor passenger luggage nor the two missing turbofan engines nor the three missing heavy steel landing struts nor the 9 missing steel wheels.

Can't you just post the evidence you have seen in the past?

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Because I have already seen that and it confirms what I said, smarty pants. No bodies were found strapped in seats, now were they?

There was a notation of two passenger bodies still strapped into seats on one of the links provided in the last day.. You didn't spot it, your bad reading.

Pretty hairy scen working in a bombed out crematorium, with no primary electrical source. Photographers documented what was needed for identification. They didn't record everything possible thinking "gee, what if some nutcases don't actually believe this actually happened?"

Here is how Truther desperation works. Keep saying there isn't the reliable evidence you need to confirm the bodies were those of passengers. That way you can cling to popular fantasies of missiles, substituted planes, flyovers, and any other delusion some online loon puts forward.

You want to convince anyone in the real world this fiction is fact, you have to show incontrovertible evidence bodies other than the passengers of Flight 77 were photographed and whose remains were analyzed. Otherwise you have nothing beyond the shared deluded imaginings Truthers try so hard to preserve.

Where is your precious evidence?

M


[edit on 20-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Because I have already seen that and it confirms what I said, smarty pants. No bodies were found strapped in seats, now were they?

There was a notation of two passenger bodies still strapped into seats on one of the links provided in the last day.. You didn't spot it, your bad reading.

So on your little friends website, there was a notation about bodies found strapped in seats but somehow the coroner was never allowed to find out about that?

Like I said before, websites are websites, we can all make them. I am pretty sure that I asked for something believable, something tangible, something real. I have a website all about witness accounts of the dragon in my garage, would you like to see that too?

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Because I have already seen that and it confirms what I said, smarty pants. No bodies were found strapped in seats, now were they?

There was a notation of two passenger bodies still strapped into seats on one of the links provided in the last day.. You didn't spot it, your bad reading.

So on your little friends website, there was a notation about bodies found strapped in seats but somehow the coroner was never allowed to find out about that?

Like I said before, websites are websites, we can all make them. I am pretty sure that I asked for something believable, something tangible, something real. I have a website all about witness accounts of the dragon in my garage, would you like to see that too?

There was a mention of the coroner function in the links I provided. Names to contact. You can't read.

You reject official information. How do you know a thing about 9/11 if it isn't from those sources.

These same inane questions sent over and over pretty reveal the comprehension and analytical capabilities being.

We're not supposed express our opinions on how dumb we think people are.


M

Originally posted by mmiichael

There was a mention of the coroner function in the links I provided. Names to contact. You can't read.

Uh huh. What exactly does it say that the coroner reports finding at the crash scene? There is a reason you want to post contact info and tell me to call instead of posting the actual coroner's published statements themselves right? Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by mmiichael

There was a mention of the coroner function in the links I provided. Names to contact. You can't read.

Uh huh. What exactly does it say that the coroner reports finding at the crash scene? There is a reason you want to post contact info and tell me to call instead of posting the actual coroner's published statements themselves right? Prove me wrong.

20 emails back I said I am not a repository of all data related to 9/11. I also said you can find it - if you want to - or pay a search service.

I don't have to prove something that happened actually happened. There is more than sufficient substantiation, official and private.

You want to forward a counter claim - do so. Just saying you don't have some information so therefore it doesn't exist is not something anyone can take seriously.

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE THERE WERE NO PASSENGER BODIES?

Answer that instead of the usual avoidance tactics.

M