National Geographic - 9/11 Science and Conspiracy Special 8/31/09

Originally posted by mmiichael
This is exactly why I will not discuss Science with Truthers.
Hundreds of pages on threads and enless links demonstating this claim is Truther BUNK.

Thank you very much for proving me right. Why are you arguing about physics that you do not understand? People like you that believe the OS seem to all have trouble with real science as well as accepting the U.S. government is evil no matter how you slice it. You have been called out on the floor to explain your knowledge of the very physics you were mocking. Ok, if you want to say there is real physics and "truther physics" then explain the difference. Answer the simple question posed to you so many posts back. You cannot so you won't.

This is exactly why I will not discuss Science with Truthers.

Uh huh. Why is it exactly? You are such an intelligent and well spoken gent, please explain why you will not discuss physics here....

Hundreds of pages on threads and enless links demonstating this claim is Truther BUNK.

Just what I thought. Not even a whole sentence. I thought these forums were interesting when people with some knowledge argued back and forth. At least then both sides seemed to have a really good reason for believing what they did. It is apparent you just believe it because you want to. You choose to believe it even though you do not understand it. Your complete lack of understanding of physics is part of the reason you can so easily deny the obvious problems with the OS on that day. Why don't you give up and go get throatyogurt or boone. At least they usually put up a decent argument. You are just here, posting nothing over and over.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

People like you that believe the OS seem to all have trouble with real science as well as accepting the U.S. government is evil

And in the end that's really what this is all about.

Feelings of betrayal and anger.

Manipulation of science to prove evil.

Now that you've proven to yourself the US government planted explosives to bring those destroyed buildings down faster, what's you next move?

Assemble and document your hard evidence in a form that can be presented to someone who can do something about it?

Or just look for people to argue about it with?


M

Originally posted by mmiichael
And in the end that's really what this is all about.

Feelings of betrayal and anger.

Manipulation of science to prove evil.

oh, really? i assure you that us "twoofers" are only interested in the "twoof". that's how we got our label. there is no need to prove evil. evil was obviously having a heyday on 9/11.
it's amazing how you can just completely ignore the perfectly good science that came straight from the NIST's mouth, and just go back to your empty, insulting rhetoric.
and, science cannot be manipulated. only the uneducated can be manipulated by false conclusions drawn from poor scientific practice.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Or just look for people to argue about it with?

M

"the ironing is delicious." - bart simpson
it seems to me, your job here is to seek out and mock all 9/11 threads, and argue in circles with anyone who has seen the truth (ie. that the government and media are covering up what really happened on 9/11). it's all you do. same typical "debunking 911" rhetorical, non-sequitor tripe as the rest of your crew.

"we" don't need to find people to argue with. they (the same small crew with a million sockpuppets through proxies) show up in droves whenever any truth eeks out of the propaganda cloud. and, they all have the same MO. ignore any real holes in the official story, and then claim that it's been "debunked already".

you JREF/debbies are tragically hilarious.

Originally posted by billybob
"we" don't need to find people to argue with. they (the same small crew with a million sockpuppets through proxies) show up in droves whenever any truth eeks out of the propaganda cloud. and, they all have the same MO. ignore any real holes in the official story, and then claim that it's been "debunked already".

You know I barely remember the names of some of you guys.
I remember someone pointing out on another thread that consistently your claims seem to always have very big 'problems.'

And in a quick check there were two threads of yours I caught - one where a 9/11 architect told you the bin Laden family construction company was a struggling company given sub-contract work on the WTC. And even better, an American couple had their house broken into by the bin Laden brothers.

All part of the Unofficial Story I'd love to read.


M

reply to post by mmiichael


i don't know anything about bin laden's breaking into someone's house.

i did write up the account of my meeting with paul laffoley, who was an architect on the towers.

Look, I don't want to get into this personal stuff. You accuse me of everything unders the sun.

You did say the architect told you the bin Laden firm was a small struggling outfit doing some WTC work. Not true .

And in your own words:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

the couple suffered a home invasion by the bin laden brothers in 1987. i eagerly await the stream of disinfo and ad hominem attacks from neocon pundits.

I won't look for the list someone provided of threads you have started all with patently incorrecy information.

You guys are pretty consistent. Anything that conflicts with anything reported by conventional sources you automatically consider a great find in that it reinforces your delusion.

Proof: the media is lying.
Proof: the government is lying.

So if Steven Jones putters around and finds magic explosive jelly beans it's a cause for celebration. The actual mechanics of how those jelly beans worked and why no one else can find evidence of them isn't important.

It's called Truther Logic.

And I hear the Truther Rescues Squad trumpeting around the bend.


M

Originally posted by CameronFox
National Geographic will be airing a new documentary surround the science and conspiracies surround 911. I'm sure all the tin-capped folks will be all over this claiming the government had this made as propaganda.

The management shakeup of Popular Mechanics preceded PM's "truther debunking". I wonder what behind-the-scenes activities preceded NG's propaganda piece?

Small matter. NG is just one more entry in my personal do-not-watch list.

We are going to have to change this government before they subvert too many more businesses while trying to cover their criminal tactics. It's wayyyy past time to flush this political toilet.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

People like you that believe the OS seem to all have trouble with real science as well as accepting the U.S. government is evil

And in the end that's really what this is all about.

Feelings of betrayal and anger.

Manipulation of science to prove evil.

Now you are just being silly. I know that I do not feel all angry and betrayed. I never trusted the government to begin with. I just think it would be nice if justice were done for all those innocent people that lost their lives. That is just me though.

Now that you've proven to yourself the US government planted explosives to bring those destroyed buildings down faster, what's you next move?

He has? Proven it? When?

Assemble and document your hard evidence in a form that can be presented to someone who can do something about it?

Or just look for people to argue about it with?


M

Let me ask you something, Mikey. Are you trying to say that you are certain that our government would NOT ever do such a thing?

Try and see if you can answer instead of dodge and deflect.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Lillydale]

reply to post by mmiichael


wow! i'd totally forgotten about that story (the hypnosis machine couple).
freaky.

anyway, i was obviously wrong about the home invasion, however, paul laffoley is on record in many places telling how the bin laden construction company was part of the construction team that built the towers, and they specifically asked him where they should place explosives to bring the towers down. they then wen tand asked all the other architects (exch architect worked on a range of floors).
so, the paul laffoley story is not "wrong", and the home invasion story, although bizzare, is a published account of someone's claims.

if you don't want to get into personal stuff (i welcome you to, btw), then why are searching through my posting history, lol!

Originally posted by Lillydale
Let me ask you something, Mikey. Are you trying to say that you are certain that our government would NOT ever do such a thing?

Lilly, Honeybunch,

The US government isn't a bunch of guys in a boardroom. Tens of millions of people work full time for it, it's agencies, as employees, part-time as sub-contractors, etc.

They don't all get together and vote on stuff.

Some of the people in the upper levels of various administration and legislation are thoroughly corrupt. It's no secret a number of key Congressmen and Senators in the are pocket of various lobby groups and resource partner foreign interests like the Saudis - who happen to now even own their pet ex-President, Jimmy Carter.

Massive negligence, outrageous conflicts of interest, outright lies, are all part of the vast 9/11 story. And criminally indictable offenses go right up to the top, in the White House.

9/11 was known to be coming down he pike at least in part, by a number of intelligence agencies. But the timing and specifics were not fully known and there was massive inter-agency communication withholding. We have a pretty good idea who knew what, but still many questions on whether the inappropriate reaction and faults were matters of incompetence, misjudgments or there is culpability.

We also know now how the attacks were planned, who co-ordinated various activities. Who supplied the funding. Intelligence from over a dozen countries have contributed to this.

We also know that whatever the US administration was guilty of, and it varies from person to person and agency to agency, they did not or contribute to directly, an attack on the New York City or Pentagon targets. The total cost in lost revenues, repair, human resources, etc – were crippling. The risks to anyone involved and discovered would have been incalculable. There would be no Republican Part for one. The perpetrators would have been executed,

No one credible has come forward, no credible evidence has been presented, to show involvement of any Americas, Israelis, British, compliant foreign agents, etc.

The funding and planning was a co-ordinated effort of a branch of the Saudi Royal Family, Pakistan’s military arm, ISI, interests in the UAE, Turkey, Jordan, other Muslim countries. Osama bin Laden was the primary project co-ordinator. He had been given the green light and funding for a series of escalating attacks on Western interests on the condition all activities were done outside the Kingdom. King Fahd’s son Abdul Aziz, was the primary funding source.

More I could tell you, but it’s all slowly getting into the history books now.

A few hundred books, thousands of articles, with all the gory details.


M

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Lillydale
Let me ask you something, Mikey. Are you trying to say that you are certain that our government would NOT ever do such a thing?

Lilly, Honeybunch,

The US government isn't a bunch of guys in a boardroom. Tens of millions of people work full time for it, it's agencies, as employees, part-time as sub-contractors, etc.

Blah blah balbbity blah blah. You completely avoided my question. Apparently I need to ask a little more precisely.

Are you trying to say that you are certain that no part of our government would ever do such a thing?

I am sorry for assuming you would understand it without slowing it down. Can you answer this or do you want to write another essay that does nothing but avoid it.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The funding and planning was a co-ordinated effort of a branch of the Saudi Royal Family, Pakistan’s military arm, ISI, interests in the UAE, Turkey, Jordan, other Muslim countries.

I just have to ask, what "other Muslim countries?" I have to assume you are mixing out arab, central asian, and Muslim. Anyway, go on.

Osama bin Laden was the primary project co-ordinator. He had been given the green light and funding for a series of escalating attacks on Western interests on the condition all activities were done outside the Kingdom. King Fahd’s son Abdul Aziz, was the primary funding source.

Then why is Osama Bin Laden not wanted for that crime?

Originally posted by Lillydale
Then why is Osama Bin Laden not wanted for that crime?

You must really be a Hardcore Truther?
One of the dumber claims is "Osama bin Laden isn't on the FBI most wanted list"

He is not an American and has never set foot in the US. So his crimes are international in jurisdiction. He's on dozens of foreign wanted lists and is sought by the US military, and probably the CIA, NAS Interpol.

They don't post WANTED pictures in Post Offices

Have you ever read a newspaper?

M



[edit on 9-9-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


did the crime he IS wanted for on the FBI site happen on american soil (the USS cole bombing)?
your argument makes no sense whatsoever. he is not wanted by the FBI for 911 because they have no hard evidence against him. they themselves state this.
you might be a slippery fish, but you're flopping around in the bottom of the boat.

Originally posted by billybob
paul laffoley is on record in many places telling how the bin laden construction company was part of the construction team that built the towers, and they specifically asked him where they should place explosives to bring the towers down. they then went and asked all the other architects (exch architect worked on a range of floors).
so, the paul laffoley story is not "wrong"

Lafolley worked for Emery, Roth & Co as a junior level architect in the 60s, and is now an artist. A Japanese architect, Minoru Yamasaki, was the primary designer.

The bin Laden Construction Company, were exclusivley doing projects for the Saudi Roysl family. Building the infrastructure fo Mecca was ther largest project.

So how a group of Arabic speaking architects from a country that had no particularly tall buildings are involved with the largest skyscrapers in history is almost beyond imagination.

Osama bin Laden would be a teenager when those building were constructed. Explosives like any chemical compound are subject to denaturing. Which over time can mean becoming useless and possibly even exploding.

But one is to believe an Arabic firm with no experience on skyscrapers worked on the WTC with plans to blow up the buidings 30-35 years in the future?

The stories just get wilder and wilder.

Mr Lafolley is on the 9/11 lecture circuit. Uh... do people actually PAY to hear these guys?

Mike


[edit on 10-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Lillydale
Then why is Osama Bin Laden not wanted for that crime?

You must really be a Hardcore Truther?
One of the dumber claims is "Osama bin Laden isn't on the FBI most wanted list"

He is not an American and has never set foot in the US. So his crimes are international in jurisdiction. He's on dozens of foreign wanted lists and is sought by the US military, and probably the CIA, NAS Interpol.

They don't post WANTED pictures in Post Offices

Have you ever read a newspaper?

M

You really must be a hardcore disinfo agent. When did I ever mention the FBI most wanted list?

Try paying attention to what I actually say and maybe your responses will not sound so completely off topic.

You claim that he is the primary person behind the 9/11 attacks. Where did you get that from because he is not wanted in connection with the 9/11 attacks.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Lillydale]

reply to post by mmiichael


here, i'll let paul do the talking.
paul laffoley's wtc experience

don't forget, i met this guy. i had lunch with him (he even paid, gracious dude that he is). i then watched him give a lecture. the lecture was about 3 hours long. the guy is like 70 and he can talk for hours with no sign of weakening. he spent about ten or fifteen minutes of this time talking about the towers. the majority of his lecture was based on his art.
however, while at lunch, i did grill him a bit on his twin tower experience. you can deny the bin laden's were there, but he was there and you weren't, so i'll take his word over yours.

he was the "pencil" architect responsible for floors 14 to 45. i don't know if you can call that "junior". he was fired for making excellent suggestions. namely, numerous bridges between the towers, and X-bracing.


this thread: CDI-DREXS explosives' extreme shelf life will show that it is possible to pre-rig the towers, and have the explosives remain volatile for decades and decades.





[edit on 10-9-2009 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
he spent about ten or fifteen minutes of this time talking about the towers. the majority of his lecture was based on his art.
however, while at lunch, i did grill him a bit on his twin tower experience. you can deny the bin laden's were there, but he was there and you weren't, so i'll take his word over yours.

he was the "pencil" architect responsible for floors 14 to 45. i don't know if you can call that "junior".

I have no reason to diss this guy. He seems interesting enough.
Pencil architect on a couple florrs in a large firm that would employ hundreds is essentially a drafting job.

Anything's possible, but the architectural and design firms working on the WTC are extremely well documented. And again, how would a construction company in what was then still an unsually backward country where they spoke Arabic, come to work on the largest futuristic megaproject skyscrapers in history?

The implanted explosives claim is not even worth addressing. Explosives are mixed and planted shortly before being set off. Their inherent chemical instability would make having them there for years inconceivable.

Mike

[edit on 10-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael


The implanted explosives claim is not even worth addressing. Explosives are mixed and planted shortly before being set off. Their inherent chemical instability would make having them there for years inconceivable.

Mike

i really hope your learning something from me, mmichael.
i was too quick with the drexs link. it should have been semtex....

According to the FBI, Semtex has an indefinite shelf life and is far stronger than traditional explosives such as TNT.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
i was too quick with the drexs link. it should have been semtex....

According to the FBI, Semtex has an indefinite shelf life and is far stronger than traditional explosives such as TNT.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by billybob]

It's the 21st century, and mmichael seems to think we don't have the technology to create explosives with a shelf life. It is Semtex, In Nothing We Trust has posted some interesting information on it on my Get Smart Thread which came out about the same time WTC was being constructed if I'm not mistaken.
I'm posting totally from memory here, but Drex I think was CDI's technology that involved cutter charges that were capable of customizing the cutting of the steel beams during a demolition to fit the specific equipment of the clean up crew. There's a thread or a post on here somewhere by me I think that discusses the amazing phenomenon of neatly cut steel beams in the WTC rubble as well but it's late.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by twitchy]