Demonic Video Games

Originally posted by Marrr
Honestly, my opinion is this thread is itself, A CONSPIRACY! I'm thinking you thought this thread would be a win for your opinion and a quick way for you to grab some easy stars. However, you've been getting your butt handed to you and basically your plan has backfired. Just an opinion, not overly trying to be offensive.

No. I was seriously referring not to violence in general but to demented depravity or ultra-violence. Theres a difference.

Im way past criticizing violence after having taking in up to a thousand violent movies.

Originally posted by LeTan
Games like postal don't even fall into the catagory of violent games, I feel it is on a much lower class than that.

Lets look the game some.. Its about a worker who goes mad or postal and goes on a killing spree. Ok, thats pretty acceptable for a violent rated M video game. The killing isn't what bothers me the most, it's the desecration of the corpses after the fact. Kicking heads around, urinating on corpses.. I don't think that kind of violence raises any kind of awareness. I won't be playing this one.

You´re the first poster who actually GETS the purpose of the OP. Theres a difference between violence and this kind of stuff.

I will say that from what I've seen of this particular game, I would consider it to be way over the top. Pissing on corpses or barely alive people and torturing them with tazers and burning them alive is way too much IMO and unnecessary. I definitely will not be playing this game, it's way too much for my tastes. To my knowledge though, these kinds of games aren't really that popular which is probably a good thing.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by LeTan
Games like postal don't even fall into the catagory of violent games, I feel it is on a much lower class than that.

Lets look the game some.. Its about a worker who goes mad or postal and goes on a killing spree. Ok, thats pretty acceptable for a violent rated M video game. The killing isn't what bothers me the most, it's the desecration of the corpses after the fact. Kicking heads around, urinating on corpses.. I don't think that kind of violence raises any kind of awareness. I won't be playing this one.

You´re the first poster who actually GETS the purpose of the OP. Theres a difference between violence and this kind of stuff.

Is that what this thread is about? The difference between Violence and Ultra-Violence?


Maybe this is what threw everyone off.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
What do people think about this stuff being programmed into our minds?

It sounds like the same question in all of these types of topics.

Besides, where does one draw the line when censoring one act of violence over the other, where is the line between normal and ultra?

[edit on 8/21/2009 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by eNumbra
Is that what this thread is about? The difference between Violence and Ultra-Violence?

Ive repeated half a dozen times that its not "against violent games". Its about examining the borders...where does venting agression and enjoying some action turn into psychpathy? Thats what interests me at least.

Doesnt matter though. You guys have turned it into one hell of a discussion anyway.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


but at the end of the day its just yet another outlet for expression, albiet a very screwed up way to express yourself. they added features like that so the game would get more publicty, and by the looks of this thread, it worked.

As a self taught programmer, it it always a MAJOR plus if your game has something no one else's does. yes this game is over to top, but it is NOTHING compared to to some Japanese games. (the rape game, for instance)

If anyone gets pleasure from preforming the actions in this game, then thats their prerogative. (and its my prerogative to want little to do with that person)

I still remember in GTA-1 when you could burp and fart at pedestrians and ten year old me thought that was truly innovative.

I just dont see how threads about a five year old game can easily take the average ATS's attention away from far more important topics.

Originally posted by drsmooth23
I just dont see how threads about a five year old game can easily take the average ATS's attention away from far more important topics.

Certain games and movies are illegal (Snuff films for example). However, the boundaries of what is illegal and legal are getting moved to the more extreme decade by decade. In the 1980s a game like this would have been considered illegal.

The legalization of material actively promoting psychopathic behavior as fun entertainment, making light of grim insanity is no issue of unimportance to many.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Ive repeated half a dozen times that its not "against violent games". Its about examining the borders...where does venting agression and enjoying some action turn into psychpathy? Thats what interests me at least.

Doesnt matter though. You guys have turned it into one hell of a discussion anyway.

Well, take the last couple pages or two, where a study was posted in an attempt to prove a correlation between violent behavior and violent video games.

It was proven there is an immediate effect; but there was no study of any follow-up or lasting effects. (Which is what they should be studying in the first place, which suggests to me someone knows there aren't any significant correlations and the studies are practiced and worded in ways to incite people)

If there are no long term effects, then does the content matter? Ask that question and then this becomes a proper moral discussion. The problem is that most of the "evidence" of violence in real life correlating to video games are from the same types of studies; thus making any of the "evidence" backed moral outrage subject.

You want to be morally outraged, do so; but this is a case in which the toes of people who have never acted out or become desensitized thanks to video games will be stepped on.




An example: There was a recent thread showing video evidence of a man beating a mentally ill man to death. I've played violent and non violent video games all my life. I've watched war movies etc... and I still cringed (just about jumped backwards) when the mans head slammed into a metal pole with a sickening "ding". I stared in a shocked awe as his breathing became obviously labored and the beating continued until he was dragged out of the building trailing blood behind him. It's something I don't want to see again.

If it were a video game I wouldn't have likely reacted: this is understood as knowing the difference between reality and fantasy.

[edit on 8/21/2009 by eNumbra]

reply to post by eNumbra


If there is indeed no correlation between being shown something repeatedly and acting on it, I rest my case.

But there is also the possibility that your mind is capable of discerning fantasy from reality...but not other peoples minds, much less the mind of a child - which is why we call children impressionable.

From personal expererience I remember watching batman as a kid, and then climbing on a tree in a batman-cape, trying to imitate him by jumping off the tree. I broke my arm.

The first sex I saw on TV as a kid had me get all excited and want to go out and do it.

And...no long term effects? Some movie scenes, such as those from an older movie featuring giant violent spiders I saw at the age of 8, had me suspcious of spiders until long into my 20s.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by eNumbra

 

If there is indeed no correlation between being shown something repeatedly and acting on it, I rest my case.

But there is also the possibility that your mind is capable of discerning fantasy from reality...but not other peoples minds, much less the mind of a child - which is why we call children impressionable.

From personal expererience I remember watching batman as a kid, and then climbing on a tree in a batman-cape, trying to imitate him by jumping off the tree. I broke my arm.

The first sex I saw on TV as a kid had me get all excited and want to go out and do it.

And...no long term effects? Some movie scenes, such as those from an older movie featuring giant violent spiders I saw at the age of 8, had me suspcious of spiders until long into my 20s.

Which is why there is a rating system in place to tell parents what is age-appropriate for their children to be playing. This is where all the "be a parent" arguments come from. There is no doubt that children are impressionable, we ALL have had those moments where we saw something we weren't psychologically ready for; but instead of arguing the merits of a games violence because of that, one should be arguing the merits of ALL media violence.

I remember seeing someone mention Quentin Tarentino movies, and then someone replied saying his violence has artistic merit.

There should be no difference between violence and artistic violence if we're basing the argument on the fact that children could get there hands on it; then children can just as easily get their hands on "Natural Born Killers" or "Kill Bill". (especially when there are many games with just as much artistic merit)



edit: to add in. Honestly, it's likely we'll never have a truly definitive answer as to whether or not there are real and far reaching consequences of a child being subjected to too much violent media. We can say with some certainty that it is not good for them, hence the ratings system; but it would be unethical and irresponsible to hand a 5 year old a copy of Postal and study its effects.

[edit on 8/21/2009 by eNumbra]

[edit on 8/21/2009 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
This is why you have to watch what you chilren play.

Kids do not parent themselves.

That's the point, right!
And...for me, postal 2 is one of the best and funny (that is what a videogame have to be) videogame ever made. And the game is rated M, is not a product for children. It's for people that can conscious separate reality from virtuality.
I see a lot of "cam police" footage on tv much more violent than videogames, and this is real.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
My world of belief? Brother I am a Pagan and a Shaman. I am a warrior of what is right. I am a Witch and an ordained minister. I have been raised in the worst neighborhoods you can imagine. I have been where no one should go. I have seen what few can handle.

No, you are not a witch.

Your opinion has been forfeit on account of your questionable mental stability.

Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by ROBL240
1,000 BPM eh? Care to share which bands you were listening to that play that fast?

1349, Torgeist, Satanic Warmaster, Belketre, Behexen, Vlad Tepes, Goatwhore, Vesania, Immortal, Arkona..to name a few.

Haha, nowhere near that speed at all - about 250bpm for short periods of time at the maximum. Do you even know what 1000bpm sounds like? Here, I just made this for you:

rapidshare.com...

Now keep in mind that's a single kick drum and nothing else, it sounds even more like a drone with the more sounds you add. Sorry about that off-topic post everyone, just denying some ignorance.

*EDIT FOR TYPO*

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Goathief]

Yeah, I think the only 1,000 BPM crap out there is speedcore/extratone techno. It's probably the worst thing you could ever hear.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Tarantinos movies have some artistic merit. I cant see the artistic merit in the game mentioned. All I see is totally psychopathic conduct.

Bad example. It's all down to taste. I find no art in almost anything Tarantino has done. That is of course my opinion. I think he makes trash that would mostly only be worthy of MST3K but I'd die for his right to make this filth.

I haven't played a console system since the 16bit Nintendo but I'd die for a programmers right to make a game about killing and brutallizing old ladies in a nursing home.

Vas

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Certain games and movies are illegal (Snuff films for example). However, the boundaries of what is illegal and legal are getting moved to the more extreme decade by decade. In the 1980s a game like this would have been considered illegal.

Based on my research I do not believe the possesion of "snuff" films is a crime unless you were involved in the productions. In which case you are guilty of or and accessory to murder.

If I am wrong show me the law please.

Now, some videos are obviously illegal to own, child porn is a prime example.

What games are "illegal" other than games that show adults and minors engaged in sexual acts?

Vas

edit to add:

Although I hate to agree with any idea that could lead to censorship I have to say something.

Those of you who say "I know the difference between fantasy and reality" or "I teach my kids to know the difference between a game and the real world".

Well, you are part right. Your consciousness knows the difference between fantasy and reality but your subconscious can NOT tell the difference.

We are and interaction between our conscious and subconscious and unless you have achieved some degree of enlightment you have almost no control over that interaction.

So exposure to violence, real or fantasy, WILL affect you, how much it does so is determined by your mental discipline(or enlightenment or whatever term you prefer).

Vas


[edit on 21-8-2009 by Vasilis Azoth]

Interesting that a really obscure game is the topic of a video game violence thread. why not actual popular games ex: GTA series? not games that are, and I quote the OP, "apparently quite popular among kids".

Turns out "Postal" is up for a 3rd installment in the 4th quarter of 2009... which is really soon. hmm, maybe a 15 page thread would generate some free publicity, eh?

Just a thought, seemed weird to me that I NEVER heard of this game and it is nowhere near "quite popular"

I gotta say, beating the crap out of people with ragdoll physics seems like it'd be pretty damn cool.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by eNumbra

 

But there is also the possibility that your mind is capable of discerning fantasy from reality...but not other peoples minds, much less the mind of a child - which is why we call children impressionable.


And...no long term effects? Some movie scenes, such as those from an older movie featuring giant violent spiders I saw at the age of 8, had me suspcious of spiders until long into my 20s.

There are reasonable, college educated individuals, who get a good laugh from Ziggy cartoons as well.....

NOTICE you stared talking about Children.... THERE is an EXCEPTIONALLY Excellent Reason for the Little "M" rating the game has.

For the millionth time, if your reasonable and responsible enough to have both a kid AND game station in the house, then you should be smart enough heed parental warnings as well....

[edit on 22-8-2009 by drsmooth23]

I remember the first Doom games and they were pretty spooky full of demons and one of the great things was you could shoot up more than just the bad guys, so this is nothing new.

Of course these games are not for kids, nor are real guns, porn videos etc.

I'd rather leave it up to the parents to parent their kids, so that the rest of us can explore the edge without everything we do becoming illegal because of the kids.

Video games are not just games, but in a sense they're somebody's art - no matter how perverted it's the way they painted it and allowed you to explore their canvas however you like.

Eventually video games will allow you to do anything - just like the real world, so that you can try things that you otherwise might not in the real world.

Are video games dangerous - yes, but so are videos, TV & some books. Keep them away from kids - don't ban them.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by verylowfrequency]

Yeah. I'll tell you what's more outrageous than demonic crap in video games, and that's the demonic prices of games in NZ. Retailers have somehow hithced the price of games from $110 to prices as high as $130, $140 and recently, $150. All of these are standard edition versions of the game too.

I don't even know why this is happening because in the US they haven't increased their prices at all. So why should we?