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Golliwoggs: How are they offensive?

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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To be honest, I think those who jump too quickly and shout "racism!" are rather... well, not very thoughtful.

If you truely think about it, isn't throwing the race card at things that 'clearly' are not racist, racism in itself?

These people need to just calm down. We could make the same claim for Raggedy Ann and Andy since it portrays whites as country folk lol.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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I had a hand made Golliwog as a kid, the lady who lived opposite from my granddad knitted it for me - it was about 18 inches high and a copy of the one on the Robertson's jars I think - a red coat with white trim, blue trousers - it was great!

My cousin who was a little older kept on telling me it was racist, he gave me little things to walk in and ask my parents when they were talking to other adults
- hey I was a dumb kid... any way to save face my mother had to throw this thing away, a bespoke Golliwog... PC gone mad
that could of lasted for me to hand down to my kids (not that I got any).

I bet if it had been a doll of an Aryan kid it would of all been milk and honey.

Edit: Hang on a cotton picking minute! (that phrase is not intrinsically racist - although I do accept that black people did pick cotton)




I do believe Rosie is black... And Jim looks a lot like a ginger pikie.... And correct me if I'm wrong but one of them speaks french! Sacré bleu! Oh lordie I'm going to hell.

[edit on 20/8/2009 by Now_Then]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Personally, I think the doll is harmless. There may have been an agenda to the doll a long, long time ago but I doubt any child would attribute any racist notion to the doll at all. I had one when I was a kid and I treasured it.

IRM


They are harmless in my opinion. As you mention you had one as a child and loved it, there just dolls at the end of the day.

I honestly would like to speak to a black/coloured person about their thoughts and opinions on the subject.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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I'm ducking out of this thread. Looks like it'll be a long one. I have a simple prejudice in life that splits people into two groups. It works


1, Humans that are ****
2, humans that aren't ****



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:48 AM
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guys look up the definition of the word Golliwog under the american term then look under it under english dictionary

american
n.
A doll fashioned in grotesque caricature of a Black male used in illustrations by Florence K. Upton (died 1922) for a series of children's books


English
Noun
a soft doll with a black face, usually made of cloth [from a doll in a series of American children's books
now read this site
www.knowledgerush.com...


sorry had to edit and put more info just found

The dolls in america had been racist but not the dolls in Europe. The American dolls were based on the childrens books as mentioned above. It is this reason the American Goliwog was deemed racist but unfortunatly it caught up with the europe. Whilst the doll wasnt portayed to give an offence to the black community the doll itself came about when John Robertson the maker of robertson jams visited America and saw children playing with these dolls. He then brought the idea over here and changed the golliwog image we know today.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by loner007]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by loner007]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
I'm ducking out of this thread. Looks like it'll be a long one. I have a simple prejudice in life that splits people into two groups. It works


1, Humans that are ****
2, humans that aren't ****



Nice method!


On a different note The Last Question by Assimov is a great story!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by loner007
 


Well spotted!

So from reading that I wonder if black Americans are more likely to be offended by the dolls or the term than other black people?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by Now_Then
 


Haha


Great find of Rosie & Jim!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


How about a KKK doll or how about an SS Doll? Do you think people would be upset by those?

It is not that they are dolls that upset people it is the references to what they represent(ed).



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Genus
To be honest, I think those who jump too quickly and shout "racism!" are rather... well, not very thoughtful.

If you truely think about it, isn't throwing the race card at things that 'clearly' are not racist, racism in itself?

These people need to just calm down. We could make the same claim for Raggedy Ann and Andy since it portrays whites as country folk lol.


No. People are now more aware that others might not have had the same experiences as you and I. Meaning that something which is trivial, nonsensical or even amusing to us could be quite disturbing or upsetting to them. It isn't a bad thing to consider other people you know!

That said, this stuff should never be dictated or forced by browbeating. People should be simply aware and able to decide for themselves.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


But they are NOT kkk or SS dolls .. are they ?

No-one has mentioned kkk or SS dolls. So why did you ?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 



A lot of things other people do and say are upsetting to a lot of us.

That's life.

We can all .. every single one of us .. find something to be precious and 'offended' about. Easily done.

Be nice if people stopped believing the world should spin around them and stopped looking for things to be offended about. And maybe while they're at it, they should consider how offensive others might find them. And then maybe they should shrug their shoulders and get on with life.


CX

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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I remember collecting the Golliwog musicians as a kid, they came with the marmalade.

To be honest, i lose track of all the latest PC brigade issues over race, some of it has a point to it, sometimes it's just people with a chip on thier shoulder.

The UK has the PC thing bad here, when kids nursery rhymes and "blackboards" are being renamed to something less racist, you have to ask yourself where the problem lies.

If the Whitehouse was in the UK today, i bet we'd be seeing it having a name change to suit those who weren't white.


CX.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by phoenix103
 


But they are NOT kkk or SS dolls .. are they ?

No-one has mentioned kkk or SS dolls. So why did you ?


Because to some people who have a different perspective on the world to you or i they can represent things just as harmful.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 




I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no logic in your argument

I hope you reach the same conclusion after some thought



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


How about a KKK doll or how about an SS Doll? Do you think people would be upset by those?

It is not that they are dolls that upset people it is the references to what they represent(ed).



As far as I can see the golliwogg was originally a character in a childrens story book. Nothing horrific about that.

I do see your point though, what exactly was a gollywogg supposed to represent?

Another question to add to the debate, why do black people get so angry about people calling their colour?

Im white and couldn't care less if someone called me involving my colour.
The insult I would ignore and the part about my colour I'd agree with because I am white.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


How about a KKK doll or how about an SS Doll? Do you think people would be upset by those?

It is not that they are dolls that upset people it is the references to what they represent(ed).



As far as I can see the golliwogg was originally a character in a childrens story book. Nothing horrific about that.

I do see your point though, what exactly was a gollywogg supposed to represent?

Another question to add to the debate, why do black people get so angry about people calling their colour?

Im white and couldn't care less if someone called me involving my colour.
The insult I would ignore and the part about my colour I'd agree with because I am white.




I'm not sure "they" do. Others seem to be "offended" on "their" behalf. These are the brow beaters who i do not support.

And as for your other point, being white was never used to oppress you, me or "our people". The same thing cannot be said of many people of "black" origin.

I thought as you do now for a long time but my view has changed as i've stepped back from being annoyed at the right on brigade.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by CX
 


The UK's gone mad! We have the following modifications to our language due to some bunch of PC idiots:

Blackboard = Markerboard/Chalkboard

Police man = Police Officer

Fire Man = Fire Officer

Minds gone blank, I can only think of the three at the minute...


CX

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron
Another question to add to the debate, why do black people get so angry about people calling their colour?

Im white and couldn't care less if someone called me involving my colour.
The insult I would ignore and the part about my colour I'd agree with because I am white.



I'll go out on a limb here and say you'll probably find that history shows black people getting a bit more grief over their skin colour than whites. Thats probably why it bothers some blacks more than yourself or another white person.

As far as the origin of the Golliwog, i was always under the impression that it was the character in a bok too, however it portrayed the black people as typical jungle native types. Thats why it was considered offensive.

Thats only what i was told growing up though, so don't quote me on that.

CX.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by phoenix103
 




I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no logic in your argument

I hope you reach the same conclusion after some thought


The logic in my argument is quite simple - to consider how something trivial to us affects others. It may seem a disproportionate response at times but unless you've felt as "they" do then you can't possibly expect to understand.

A suggestion for you, take it or leave it but might give you some insight - read Dreams of my Father by Barack Obama. It talks of him coming to terms with being a "black" man and what that means.

Might give you an insight away from those who are telling you how to think.



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