Extremely pissed off at local hospital.

I hear a lot of talk about how people don't want to be forced to pay for other people's healthcare.

You already do!!!

What do you think happens when I (no insurance) go to the hospital for kidney problems? I get a $5K-$10K bill that I can't pay... and I don't pay because I don't have to, and I can't afford to.

You pay for that (thanks by the way). Except instead of it coming out of a fund set aside for just that it comes out of our infrastructure, income tax, and anywhere else they can get it from, thus taking away from what the money was initially intended for.

I see no problem with a system similar to what the UK has.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by XTexan]

reply to post by XTexan


Again, can we not turn this thread into that.

Please and thankyou.

this would NEVER happen in Belgium, social healthcare I think its called.

reply to post by Uniceft17

I think it began leaning toward the healthcare debate because that is the hot political/social topic right now.

I want to reiterate that my post was not intended to be derogatory towards you. I simply wanted to both inform you of the proper procedures (which you apparently were not aware of) and point out the connections that your experience had to the problems in the whole system.

Yes, you were abusing the system. But that's not my major concern right now. Your mother did so as well when you were younger, and THAT is of more interest to me than your actions. When did this cycle begin?

On another thread I detailed the evolution of our medical system (I'll try to find it and post the link) into the mess we have today. In it, I bemoan the extinction of the family doctor, the one who could be called any hour of the day or night, who would open his office if need be, and who would even come to your house to check out a problem. That critter apparently no longer walks the face of the planet.

Perhaps a large step in solving the problems we do have in our healthcare system would be some sort of public education campaign, to help people like you who really do not understand what they are doing when they use the ER as a physician's office. I thank you for pointing this out to me, as well as to the other readers.

In any case, I hope you get the care you need.

TheRedneck

Edit to add: Here is the link to the post I mentioned above.

[edit on 8/20/2009 by TheRedneck]

:facepalm: And people want to make everyone pay into this universal health care program because OP feels entitled to go to an EMERGENCY ROOM because he's got some hard lymph nodes.

Hey, I got some corns on my heels. Maybe I should go to the ER also. Oh yeah, and I got a paper cut...better go to the ER. Oh yeah, and let's make everyone entitled to go to the ER because of these ridiculously non-emergency problems. Universal health care for everyone! It's free!

Americans are so going to be toast!


[edit on 20-8-2009 by Archon_Adept]

reply to post by XTexan


Wrong is called Medicare and Medicaid and it comes from our checks when we are working as entitlement programs you want it or not.

The problem is that is so corrupted and miss managed that now the government wants to dip more into working Americans check with a so call Health care reform.

Rather than fix the two government run insurance we have.

A bit of information from a 5-minute Google search:

The diagnosis of swollen lymph nodes rarely requires emergency hospital treatment. The exceptions to this include a growing infection of the skin that requires treatment, a severely infected lymph node that needs to be drained, or severe pain.

Source: www.emedicinehealth.com...

There's quite a bit of information on the web about this.

TheRedneck

Sorry to hear about your problems there mate - in retrospect (I don't know if this has been brought up yet - not read past the fist page)... but in retrospect do you think it could of been a good idea to get some insurance cover before you went to the hospital?

The reason I'm saying that is that there is that killer claus about pre existing conditions not being covered - anything to wriggle out of paying up!

I suppose you'd be OK, well maybe, because the doctor you saw did not diagonise you with anything, but he would of noted your symptoms - I don't know how it works over there.

reply to post by Archon_Adept


To compare this to corns on your feet is pure ignorance, maybe you should educate yourself before commenting on such topics.

Originally posted by Now_Then
Sorry to hear about your problems there mate - in retrospect (I don't know if this has been brought up yet - not read past the fist page)... but in retrospect do you think it could of been a good idea to get some insurance cover before you went to the hospital?

What is missing from this conversation is the fact that in most civilized countries...Belgium, Britain and Canada have chimed in... the question would be absolutely moot. If you don't have a GP, and the walk-ins are closed, the government tells you to go to the ER. They run on a triage system...a heart attack trumps the lymph nodes, but the node trump a corn.

But your fellow citizens get taken care of.

That is the mark of a civilized society...and all the whining about socialism and government ineptitude does not remove the fact that an American should have free and easy access to health care...anything less is shameful.

And those who won't do that much for their brothers and sisters in need are creeps.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

And those who won't do that much for their brothers and sisters in need are creeps.

That's a pretty big statement.

Let me ask you something: should I pay for the guy next to me to have steak while I eat soup?

I say no, let the man have his steak, but let me save my money for other things and be content with my soup.

Does that make me a 'creep'?

This is exactly what happens ion our medical system now: some people use the medical industry to cure every ache and pain and bump and twitch that comes along. They raise high bills and since many of them cannot pay, those bills are spread amongst those who can pay, raising the price. The hospitals will not operate without money to operate, and doctors are human and need to eat too.

Some of us try to avoid doctors. Some of us will take care of ourselves, and will therefore use the medical profession very little in our lives. We are happy with our 'soup', as it gives us financial freedom to accomplish other things... someone may right now be building the answer to all the world's energy needs in his basement, using money that he saved from not going to the doctor as much.

Others are more concerned about ourselves and will use a doctor's services for things that others would consider minor. They want their steak, and I have no problem with them having their steak... until the bill comes due and they can't pay, so the cost of my soup is raised to cover their steak.

The fact that costs are already being spread among the population due to people's inability to pay is frequently raised as a reason why the profession is in the shape it is in. So why would we want to legitimize, institute, and expand something that has already raised costs and lowered quality? Why do all the plans raised center on giving insurance instead of giving health care? Are the insurance companies healing people? No, they are simply adding to the problem by being a middleman and recently trying to control medical decisions through policy restrictions.

So, please, eat all the steak you want. Just pay the bill!

I'm happy with my soup. I'm 'creepy' that way.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I'm happy with my soup. I'm 'creepy' that way.

TheRedneck

Your call...but the rest of the civilised world shows that it doesn't have to be that way.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

The rest of the civilized world didn't land a man on the moon.

The rest of the civilized world didn't put a rover on Mars.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't produce most of the world's food.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't give nearly the foreign aid we do.

The rest of the civilized world didn't play the major role in the Industrial Revolution.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't have the latest medical technologies.

The rest of the civilized world pays a fraction of what we do for medicines.

Enjoy your steak.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

The rest of the civilized world didn't land a man on the moon.

The rest of the civilized world didn't put a rover on Mars.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't produce most of the world's food.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't give nearly the foreign aid we do.

The rest of the civilized world didn't play the major role in the Industrial Revolution.

The rest of the civilized world doesn't have the latest medical technologies.

The rest of the civilized world pays a fraction of what we do for medicines.

Enjoy your steak.

TheRedneck

...and it's ok to do all that and leave the less fortunate of you behind?

Like I said, your call.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
reply to post by Archon_Adept

 

To compare this to corns on your feet is pure ignorance, maybe you should educate yourself before commenting on such topics.

Of course, it's ok to suck up limited human labor (because, as we all know, there's a glut of doctors and nurses) on your hard lymph nodes, but it's not ok for me to suck up limited human labor for my corns.

reply to post by Archon_Adept


Like I said, the 2 aren't even comparable.

Do some research because obviously you know nothing about lymph nodes.

Corns don't lead to cancer.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
You just may live in a fortunate area.

Here? I wait 3 weeks just for my GP. 3 months to see my orthopod.

I had a friend who was nearly killed waiting for critical heart surgery because he waited SIX months because it was postponed three times.

When he finally went to surgery, and if it had been 2 more weeks he would of died. (defect)

Our ER waits are usualy 4-7 hours.

I am glad I don't get horribly sick, or have a aggravated chronic illness. What you wrote sounds exactly like what my mom goes through. She has a whole slew of chronic illnesses, and has to wait 3-6 weeks just to see her GP. 'Cause she goes to this local clinic, that's the only one that will accept her, and this particular place is overrun with patients, and not enough doctors. When I thought I had broken my foot, I went to the ER and had to wait 3 hours before they got to me. But you know what, I didn't feel that bad about it, because there was some poor slob sitting there in the waiting room with a bandage on his head, that was covered in blood, and another fellow sitting there with his feet up, pants rolled up to his knees, 'cause he had burns going from his knees to his ankles. Seeing those two dudes, toughing it out, made me feel a whole lot better about my foot. Them two fellows was still sitting there after I was wheeled into the back area.

Chrono

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

My point is simply that medical care is not a one-size-fits-all thing. Different people require different levels of care, and different people use different levels of care. The whole problem is that too many people are using too much care, eating steak if you will. That causes a strain on the system to handle the load, and it's made even worse by the fact that so many of them can't pay the bills.

There has to be some personal responsibility in the final reform, or the system will simply overload and crash. I'm glad you don't have this problem in Canada, but we have it a lot just across the border.

It's very easy to sit back and spend other people's money. Too easy, in fact, which is why we have such a tremendous deficit right now. But I was not born into a country where we work hard so others can have their every whim. We work hard so WE can have the things we need. This is not charity we're discussing; it is forced supplementation of someone else's desires. I don't think anyone here wants to see people do without needed health care, but we also have a problem with paying for the excess of others. That was the steak and soup reference I made, but I guess you didn't catch it.

A big part of being healthy is eating right. Why do you not advocate all food being free? Why not help someone with 5 kids pay for the 10 boxes of high-priced brand-name cereal each week? Just because you don't eat that much, it doesn't mean you shouldn't pay to help them. What kind of creep are you?

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
A big part of being healthy is eating right. Why do you not advocate all food being free? Why not help someone with 5 kids pay for the 10 boxes of high-priced brand-name cereal each week? Just because you don't eat that much, it doesn't mean you shouldn't pay to help them. What kind of creep are you?TheRedneck

I guess I'm the kind of creep that contributes to local food banks, goes out to a local public school in a disadvantaged part of town and feeds them Christmas dinner, I support a downtown mission through monthly deductions, and I also vote a ticket that doesn't kick people when they're down.

Sorry to list this stuff...but I was challenged.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Talk about paying for the excess of others!

I don't think there is another country out there that encourages the excesses that America does. People being encouraged, via tv commercials, to ask their doctor for the latest "magic" pill that's required for the newest designer illness that no-one either heard about or cared about before, but suddenly is a "must have".

People there go in for all kinds of unnecessary tests just because they can and they can pay for them. With all that medical attention going to frivolous but lucrative things, there is a lack of attention and services for the poor.

Sure, there are people in Canada who over use the system, and guys like me who rarely go to a doctor, but in the final analysis it is a much less abusive and wasteful setup than what you have over there.