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I can't believe how arrogant people were during the housing bubble

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:03 AM
There is a lot of blame going around these days directed at the government, the Fed, the banksters, and others for wrecking the economy.

As far as I am concerned, this is basically justified. We are beling robbed in broad dailight by a handful of billionares and their cronies in the government. These people are dispicable and deserve punishment for High Treason against the United States of America for their actions, in my opinion.

But another dimension is lacking in public discussion -- namely, the raw greed of the American "homedebtor" and the way they leveraged themselves beyond belief with second mortgages, sketchy loans, credit cards, and so on.

During the bubble years, I was very frugal. I saved money, invested in precious metals rather than real estate or paper, and acquired zero debt. As a consequence, I experienced what I would describe as "social ostricization." I was called everything from a "loser" to a "tinfoil-hatter" to worse. People used to chuckle condesendingly at my shabby wardrobe or the fact that I rented instead of borrowing to "buy" a home. Of course, none of the nouveaux-riche "homeowners" who were so proud of being "buyers" actually owned anything-- except big debts to banks and credit card companies.

These people deserve some sort of public blame, and they deserve to feel shame. They may not deserve jail time, as I believe some of those in the higher reaches of government and finace do, but in my opinion, they deserve to feel deep shame for their swaggering arrogance and general insatiable greed, as well as their bullying of those who refused to follow the heard.

I hear a lot of whinging these days about how "nobody told me it would end up this way" or "all the details were burried in the fine print." I'm sorry, but this sounds like the whining of adult babies to me. Whenever I sign something, I read EVERY word of the fine print and make sure I understand. I thought this was common sense. If I can't afford something, I either save for it or don't buy it. To me, this is common sense.

The truth of the matter is a mass wave of greed swept over the nation, and now people are reaping the grim consequences of their own piggy little appetites for "more." On a moral and personal level, I feel nothing but disgust for their shallownes, meanness, and lack of basic freaking reasoning abilities.

I understand there were people who were actually scammed and taken advantage of unfairly, but to my mind this is a relatively small percentage of those who have ended up in trouble. If this seems cold, I''m sorry, but I had to put up with years of condescention and downright verbal cruelty from people who are now moaning they can't afford a new credit-based marble countertop or whatever. I have less-than-zero sympathy for these scumbags with their monster grills, khakis, and vulgar avarice.

[edit on 8/20/09 by silent thunder]

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:23 AM
When I was looking for a home, I calculated that I could comfortably afford about $125,000. Unfortunately, there weren't any houses for sale in my area for under $225,000 (supposedly FHA says homes existed in my County for $175,000 but I never saw them ever listed). So, I didn't buy as the difference that $100,000 in cost would bankrupt me. So, the day my Bank contacted me to congratulate me on qualifying for a $350,000 Home Loan, I knew something was rotten in Denmark as there was no way I could afford paying the payments on a loan 3x greater than what I knew I could reasonably afford. I turned it down.

Meanwhile, my co-workers were buying $350,000 Homes on the same paltry Salary I was making. Apparently they were buying into it.

Needless to say, they had to sell their homes for a fraction of what they paid for them, and either lost all their equity or are still in debt for the difference.

Now, we have plenty of homes in our area that are under $60,000 and some as low as $40,000. With what I was saving up for a down on a Mortgage, I can now buy a home outright and not owe any Bank a single penny in Fees, Points or Interest.

I may not have sympathy for the Bankers, or for Goldman Sachs that orchestrated this by intentionally selling $76.5 billion worth of subprime mortgage-backed securities to institutional investors like pensions and insurance know, the ones that went Bankrupt, like AIG. Who got the bail-out money? Goldman Sachs!

However, like you, I have no sympathy for the fools that over-extended themselves and carried debt they could not afford even the minimum payments on. I can sorta understand the ones who didn't read the fine print and had Variable Interest Rates on their Mortgage that they got when the Interest Rate was low, but got blind-sided when the Interest Rates ballooned, but they should have calculated what their payments would have been at the MAXIMUM Interest Rate before determining if they could afford paying on that Loan. Still, they do only have themselves to blame.

However, that's just it. It's always easier to blame others than to blame yourself.

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:37 AM
Arrogance? Nah, I honestly do not believe it's arrogance. The real "Arrogance" lies with the banks that kept on giving huge bonusses for s.c."financial geniuses" that were basically no more than snake-oil peddlers.
The real "arrogance" also lies with Wallstreet, that cobbled up investment scams só complex, théy even lost track of it.

The people that were the victims of the housing bubble were mostly average folk who were duped in the age-old mantra "posessions make happy" They weren't armed well enough against the barrage of "spend,spend,spend" they got fed by the media. Whether by below-par education, or just mental limitations is not something I profess to know, but i DO know that mortgage providers took advantage, in an evil way, of the gullible among us .For most people, legal contracts are as obfuscated and unintelligible as a foreign language. That is done on purpose!

A friend of mine is a lawyer, and she admits that some unscrupoluos companies do their utter best to make contracts as incomprehensible as possible, with tons of semantic loopholes already built-in without breaking the law..(That's one of the reasons the health-care bills are such 1000page beasts)

And to top it off, greed creates even more greed, once greedy, nothing will ever be enough. That is the true arrogance of corporate America and Europe. The thought that nothing is wrong with greed...

Well, just my $0,02

edited for dumb-a.. spelling

[edit on 8/20/2009 by diakrite]

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:48 AM
I found three different homes that I wanted to purchase in my area. All had issues but good value. I couldn't get loans for them because they didn't cost enough. No kidding. Less than 100K no loan.

I ended up buying a home for 115 that had an actual value of 165k but had been forclosed on. It needed work and I had no problem with that so I bought it. That was two and a half years ago. We aren't doing as bad as some other areas but my home value has dropped by almost a third of the value. I am lucky that my home is worth what I owe on it.

I was told, (by a Countrywide agent) , that my credit was so bad that I couldn't do better than 12.5% on an adjustable rate mortgage But they could get me 250K. A week later I got a conventional at 7%. Good interest and terms at that point in time.

I shopped around and didn't believe the first agent I talked to or I could have been one of those who is now facing foreclosure. Many people get into bad mortgages because they just don't know.

[edit on 013131p://f52Thursday by badgerprints]

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:24 AM
I was just lucky enough to get a 10 years fixed-rate at 5,1% for a €156.000 right before the bubble burst.. Indeed, There were providers that could get me €280.000 at a ludicrous 12,8%. i friendly but persistently declined. (having read the contract, I found that this could be anything they wanted me to pay, after just two years... auch!)

So, I admid that some judicious reading prevented some major pain..

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:44 AM
I'm honestly more pissed about the artificial value that realtors create. They take a house worth 60 grand (at one time In Oklahoma, houses were pretty cheap..and nice surprisingly...and no, we dont all live in tee pee's
) and they tell people they can get 100, 150 plus out of them.

What bothers me more is that PEOPLE ACTUALLY PAY THIS. It's infuriating. I mean, we all want a nice home, but its a completely unrealistic value. So now, I'm looking to buy a house, and I can afford 70 grand comfortably. Problem is now all I can get is a HUD worthy home for that price. So I said screw it..right?

I look in to buying "junk land" (land that a timber company or what not cleared in the mountains and is now selling) If you can get it FROM the company, awesome...less than 800 an acre. Problem is, some frackin idiot land developer from PA or NY or CA has already bought the #, and now is charging 2000 or more per acre. I can't even BUILD a nice home now. So here I sit...renting...and hating all the pathetic assholes that caused these problems in the coasts, now coming to my neck of the woods and #ing it up for us!

And yes, Oklahoma DOES have mountains. 4 ranges to be exact. Ouachita and Wichita, Arbuckle and Ozarks

[edit on 20-8-2009 by midnightbrigade]

posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 04:31 AM
reply to post by silent thunder

I have been saying this for years, and even more loudly since the "troubles" began. No one wants to take responsibility. It's so much easier to blame the bankers, the corporations, the government. In fact the blame in my opinion should fall squarley on the all of us, afterall we are the ones who have bought into the whole "possessions make you happy" spiel.

I still get strange looks when I tell people I choose to rent. I am 36 years old and I am proud I don't have a mortgage. Then again my priorities have always differed from most.

Renting is stigmatized as less than "owning". It has somehow taken on the aura of "loser".

I lived in Switzerland for a few years. The vast majority of Swiss rent their homes. There is no pressure to have a mortgage. The Swiss have one of the highest standards of living in the world. No one feels less than because they aren't enslaved by a bank. "Home ownership" is not a part of the Swiss culture. The Swiss are not any less happy than the Brits or the Americans, but they are richer.

Our world would be such a better place if people didn't base their self worth on their wealth. This is how the TPTB control the vast majority. Through popular culture and media they have ingrained in us a belief that our lives are only worth anything if we consume and possess. As a result we give up the most valuable currancy we have, our time. Who has time to question the goverment when they are so busy working their tails off to pay mortgages and buy Ipods? That in my opinion is the real conspiracy. We are blinded to anything except our sick need to buy more stuff therefore being in exactly the place where "they" want us to be.

Well I refuse. You can keep your credit cards, mortgages, plastic surgery and fast food. I won't be enslaved by "stuff".

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