Steel Piece Proves Lie - NIST engineer John Gross denies WTC molten steel

reply to post by Paroxysm


Ah yes, you mean during the clean up? This little picture has been debunked YEAR ago and yet it still returns with the same old garbage claim.

are you aware that the clean up crews were cutting beams on the diagonal? The words on the picture mean absolutely NOTHING because they were placed there by another so called "truther",which is nothing more than a disinfo artist.

I agree with MindMelding; We should not press for truth just so that we can bring a bunch of parasitical murdering crooks to court in vengeful hopes of sending them off to prison. We cannot replace the crooks of this Capitalism serving representative democracy with true honest people. It simply is impossible, as the system itself requires murdering psychopaths without a grain of empathy to operate it.

What the 911 truth movement should focus on is the fact that these kinds of operations are required to maintain the illusion that this system is the 'best we can get' - and that these kinds of false flag attacks are tools of maintaining the Lie that human nature won't allow for a better system in which all humans have equal access to food, clothing, shelter and health care.
Also, this operation was carried out to increase profit and power for elitist corporate and political (one and the same) bastards, as could be predicted from looking at the blueprint of Capitalism. 7 years later, we see another false flag attack on our liberties: the economic crisis, in which bailouts and the buy-out of smaller banks by bigger ones are coined as the only solution.

Again and again we see centralization of wealth and power by the ones atop the capitalist ladder, and this will never end as long as we don't take a stand against it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/41914ee3ffe0.gif[/atsimg]

The way for us to combat this is not through violence, riots or war; but through education of the wage-slave masses on the subject of alternatives to the capitalism-government system. Right now, most people have the standard pre-programmed reaction when we speak of alternatives:

1- That's communism, go back to Russia you commie bastard!
2- Human nature won't allow it; we are beasts unless we have the police around!

So please, everyone who is not in denial of what transpired on 911, ask yourself what you truly wish to see concerning this event. Do you truly believe our justice system is just enough to make everything better?

In my opinion, we need to educate the masses on what truly transpired, and simultaneously educate them on solutions and the way forward: deconstruction of capitalism and representative democracy; decentralization of wealth and power.

I used to believe I would never see the day, but the internet has the elites backed up in a corner, and the more crazy jumps they perform, the more people are seeing them for what they are: a parasitical minority that ruins life for almost everyone on earth, a minority easily dealth with when the masses' blindfolds have lifted.

reply to post by GenRadek


I see no "clean up crew's" in that picture. All I see are Firemen/First-Responder's.

Please point out the "clean up crew's" in that photo....nevermind don't bother, you can't.



[edit on 20-8-2009 by Paroxysm]

reply to post by Paroxysm


Here is a video taken direct from Ground Zero:



Pay close attention to when he is pointing out the cuts being made on the bow-tie connections. Notice how high up the cuts are?

Plus why is it so hard to believe that there were firefighters AND clean up crews there at the same time? Use some common sense here. This photo was taken without a date stamp, however from observing other pictures and videos of the site, and seeing the clean-up crews cutting ON ANGLES other beams, why is so hard to see that this can very well be the case?

[edit on 8/20/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


Oh wow. General Radek gives us the Chinese version.

Leave it to the government loyalists to needle prick a technicality to death, desperately avoiding the main issue.

This 8-ton core structure box column (whatever you want to call it) was neatly bent into a horseshoe shape by thousands of degrees of heat below the WTC, without any sign of stress fractures in the smoothly bent heavy guage structural steel.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/edf353238801.jpg[/atsimg]

Question: Where did that excessive heat come from?

This core column was apparently also bent without stress fracture by the excessive heat. Both pieces are on display in Hanger 17 at Kennedy Airport for inspection by experienced professional investigators in the upcoming 9-11 Treason Hanging Trials.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ce6879eec4a1.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by SPreston


Boy you googled that pretty quick! Light gauge railroads, huh?

Now explain the little part about sneaking into the WTC, getting the material to defy gravity, and setting it off with nobody noticing.

Originally posted by SPreston


Geeze this is like teaching pre-school.

AND 'poof!' the last shreds of respectability and dignity ignite, and the ashes blow away.....

post by SPreston

These engineers call them box columns and show how to cut them with thermate.

Use of Thermate explains the "Underground Fires"

Thank you for showing everyone that in starting THIS thread, you are merely repeating the same claims from one of the myriad of "truther" group wbsites out there on the InterWebs.

No bias, just "facts" from a source that is showing photos, such as the angle-cut columns, that are KNOWN to be the result of the clean-up activities as "proof" of pre-planned cutting as part of CD...


I'm sorry, but the argument from the A&E 4T side would be more credible if they'd dispense with the hyperbole and histrionics and stick to demonstrable facts, rather than relying on circumstantial innuendo.


I'm sure _BoneZ_ will be along shortly to throw 'thermite' at me....Ow! It burns!!!

reply to post by hooper


I think this thread is about the molten metal pools weeks after the collapse, not about how stuff was sneaked in. Maybe you could stick to the topic at hand? The lying sack of manure from NIST exposed, and the molten metal.

reply to post by SPreston


Who and how was it determined that the particular piece of steel came from below the WTC?

How did you determine that there are no stress factures? Looking at the photo?

reply to post by Mindmelding


Your post was totally on course. I agree with what you said and applaud your obvious intelligence and literacy.

However, one thing you said stuck in my craw a bit: When you mention ' orbital lazers' I assume that you are referring to the theory of a DEW weapon being used, and that you do not believe it.

I am stuck on this one; I cannot find any other way to explain SOME evidence that screams for attention,such as the melted cars blocks away with anomalouis damage that has not been explained in any other way. Massive holes in some buildings, with no debris remaining...cars and trucks with engine blocks ablaze but the paint pristine...there are too many pieces of the puzzle that CANNOT be explained away.

One poor debunker went as far as saying that ' active dust' from the Towers somehow did what we see in the pics on judy Woods site. Can you imagine being so desperate for an excuse that ' active dust' is the only refuge for the seeker of corroboration of the official account.

In any event, your post was spot on, and well put.

reply to post by Psynarchist


But I thought the argument was that the alledge "pools of molten metal" were the direct result of the alledged use of thermite/thermate and could have no other alledged source? My question is simply - how did that much thermite/mate get into the WTC in the alleged first place?

Originally posted by richierich
there are too many pieces of the puzzle that CANNOT be explained away.

One poor debunker went as far as saying that ' active dust' from the Towers somehow did what we see in the pics on judy Woods site. Can you imagine being so desperate for an excuse that ' active dust' is the only refuge for the seeker of corroboration of the official account.

In any event, your post was spot on, and well put.

Exactly.

The entire truth is not known.

But science tells us that the official story is a physical impossibility that contradicts basic science and observable aspects of the event.

It is really interesting to see this get debated because some of you are trying so desperately to teach people that aren't trying to learn...

They aren't ready...when they are ready, the truth is easily accessible.

Just do the math.

reply to post by richierich


I think some of the cars blocks away were actually towed there after the fact.
As far as the puzzle pieces go, perhaps that's the whole point; who says a multitude of tools (known and classified) weren't used to create a forest of evidence?
How does that saying go, "can't see the forest because of the trees?"

reply to post by SPreston


SPreston, you are all over the place with your accusations of thermite, and yet you are showing how little you understand the mechanics of it.

First you claim thermite was used to cut the box-columns diagonally. Then you claim thermite is responsible for the high temps in the pile, Then you claim thermite is responsible for bending the steel box-columns with "excessive" heat. Now SPreston, this must be some super magical thermite.
Oh wait I forgot! According to Jones, this was some sort of magic nano-thermite in paint-on/chip form that was painted on the beams. But hold on SPreston, are you now saying that Jones is wrong? Or are you jumping from magic paint on nano-thermites to special cutting charge thermite, and back again when the heat is on for you to explain a major flaw?

So can you explain how this special thermite was somehow used to do all this? also explain how thermite can self-ignite in a pile with temps below the required ignition temp? How does the magic paint-on nano-thermite fit into this? When was it placed on all these beams? How can thermite burn underground and stay molten for weeks? How can thermite heat a beam to be bent but not melt it or cut through it? How can thermite, scattered in the debris be able to do all that? For fun SPreston, try this: take a whole pile of twigs and paper and put it into a large pile. Then take thermite and throw it on the pile, then try and ignite the whole thermite and wood pile. See how that goes.

Originally posted by hooper
My question is simply - how did that much thermite/mate get into the WTC in the alleged first place?

Marvin BUSH was head of the Twin Towers Security prior to 9/11.
Did you know the towers were shut down a week before 9/11?

Which steel beams/columns came from below WTC7?

Was there molten metal there?


If a beam/column was subjected to temperatures high enough to keep steel molten, then why aren't the beams/columns deformed in other ways, other than just being bent horseshoe-like? Why aren't they flattened? Squashed?? They retained their rectangular shape. WHY?

Is anyone a metallurgist, out in the audience? Can anyone say conclusively that the bending without apparent kinking or stress fracturing couldn't have occured any other way, besides great heat? Could it occur from ductile force, pulling, stretching and bending simultaneously?

Can anyone debunk this Question about metals?? It's rather general, not specific to steel per se, but someone in the field should know??
_______________________________________
(sp)


[edit on 20 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by hooper


Ok true that, SPreston did provide a link that stated that Use of Thermate explains the "Underground Fires"

As far as I'm concerned though, I'd venture to say that it could have been anything BUT jetfuel that brought the towers down in this fashion and cause the metal anomalies we see here, including the lies. This bickering about which kind of Thermite seems a little silly when considering the technological advancement of the military agencies and or whatever other secret agency around.

Could it not be that something similar to thermite was invented without public knowledge, and subsequently used on 911?

We don't know, but going by what we do know there is still plenty of info to suggest an inside job and cover-up. Not to mention motive!

posted by hooper
reply to post by SPreston

 

Who and how was it determined that the particular piece of steel came from below the WTC?

How did you determine that there are no stress factures? Looking at the photo?

If you had bothered to watch the video in the OP, then you would already know that the construction crewmembers and welders standing around the horseshoe shaped core column (which you by the way with your expertize thought was some tubular fabrication) were describing the bend as without stress cracks or buckling or tearing.

Perhaps you should view the video and learn something.



This 8-ton 6 inch thick steel I-beam was once straight, but is now curved into a horseshoe shape without stress cracks, by the intensive heat which formed the molten metal under the WTC.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/edf353238801.jpg[/atsimg]

Since the pools of molten metal were below the WTC, and since both towers were no longer standing, common sense would dictate that the 8-ton core column would likely be pulled from an area where the necessary thousands of degrees of heat to bend it would be found.

Re: near the pools of molten metal beneath the WTC and imaged by NASA days and weeks later.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f55593eaf6b0.gif[/atsimg]

Isn't it interesting that a government agency maintains these images for the American public, 8 years after 9-11, and which are deadly to the rapidly self-destructing 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY?

Images of the World Trade Center Site Show Thermal Hot Spots on September 16 and 23, 2001

And isn't it interesting what a LIAR NIST Engineer John Gross is?

reply to post by SPreston


Great thread and a star and a flag for you.

I want to point to another thread in relation to this that was started about 2 years ago or so by Griff.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Also I want to point to this in a FEMA REPORT

FEMA

It is much more difficult to tell if melting has occured in the grain boundary regions in this steel as was observed in the A36 steel in the WTC 7. The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure.

An "unusual event" with regards to the Steel occurs in either WTC-1 or WTC-2 ~~ But also in WTC-7!! Which goes along with the "Hot Spots."

So there was melted steel no doubt. I also find it ludicrous for anyone to believe WTC-7 just so happened to have the same unusual thing and that this was just a "coincidence."










[edit on 20-8-2009 by talisman]

reply to post by SPreston


Boy, get at least one thing right - I said it looked like tubular steel OR some other fabrication.

And I thought they were engineers - now you say they are construction workers and welders. As much respect as I may have for them, they are not engineers or metallurgists.