Swedish paper's organ harvesting article draws Israeli outrageStory Highlights

Originally posted by Neo-V™
reply to post by Retseh

 

The following is dated as 1-10-2002

The report says that the Israeli Minister of Health, Nessim Dahhan, tacitly admitted to the horrific practice in an answer to Arab member of the Knesset Ahmed Teibi. Nessim Dahhan said in response to a question by Ahmed Teibi, on Tuesday, that he couldn't deny that organs of Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli forces were taken out for transplants or scientific research. Ahmed Teibi, according to the report, had received credible evidence proving that Israeli doctors at the forensic institute extracted such vital organs as the heart, kidneys,and liver from the bodies of Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli Army in Gaza and the West Bank.

The report explains that the Israeli Army killed three Palestinian boys, ages 14-15 near Khan Younison on December 30, 2001. The army issued conflicting reports on the killing, while Palestinian sources charged that Israeli troops murdered the three unarmed boys in cold blood. The bodies of the three boys were handed over to the Palestinians for burial on January 6, however, shortly before burial, Palestinian medical authorities examined the bodies and found out that the main vital organs were missing from the bodies.

Source

Vital organs were missing?

From three kids?

That's a cool million right there!

You can shut a lot of mouths with a mil of dollars, laying around everywhere in a radius of 3.000 kilometers from that place.
These people just know how to make money...

I was kind of thinking, what if some large developing countries run out of their surplus of condemned people and wanted to make use of that harvesting underground in that place..
No, I don't want to know really..

Also what if some other people (countries in need of money after a financial crisis in the same radius of 3k kilometers I hinted above) wanted to use their human infrastructure to do the same, because they will be in "a time of need" following this country's paradigm..What then?

What kind of a hellish society are we suppose to bring our kids in to?
UN must step in, no further delays. Calling the race card is stupid. What goes around, comes around, these people have kids too, they should think what can happen in the long run.
How much time have we left before human society start chasing itself to harvest its organs or having each other for food.
The local authorities should have chased down the perpetrators with extreme prejudice just to make an example, but no, they even played the "race" card. You don't play "cards" at such kind of cases, you just let the heavy hammer of justice fall wherever it may, even if everything would seem a bit sketchy and unfounded at start.
This is just wrong.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



Israel always use the same old "racism" and "anti-semitic" to silent any further investigation. Nothing new.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I understand- really I do. I don't believe that all criticism of Israel should invoke the antisemitic defense. It's a lot like the Obama racism accusation that frustrates me. It's not logical to be accused of racism just because you disagree with the president. Likewise, it's not antisemitic to criticize the actions of Israel. It's not bigotry to point out the violence in radical Islam. It's not Anti-Christian to discuss the sex scandal in Christianity, etc.

However, what I am trying to point out is that accusations, especially blood libel, is often an unfounded witch hunt of sorts. In this specific incident of the Swedish newspaper, when he admits to having no proof, it really makes me wonder what his intentions are.

That's what I'm trying to stress. If something is going on- by all means, let's investigate it. But not because a tabloid author goes off on a rant. Irresponsible, sensational journalism like that is only going to cause problems- not solutions.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I understand- really I do. I don't believe that all criticism of Israel should invoke the antisemitic defense. It's a lot like the Obama racism accusation that frustrates me. It's not logical to be accused of racism just because you disagree with the president. Likewise, it's not antisemitic to criticize the actions of Israel. It's not bigotry to point out the violence in radical Islam. It's not Anti-Christian to discuss the sex scandal in Christianity, etc.

However, what I am trying to point out is that accusations, especially blood libel, is often an unfounded witch hunt of sorts. In this specific incident of the Swedish newspaper, when he admits to having no proof, it really makes me wonder what his intentions are.

That's what I'm trying to stress. If something is going on- by all means, let's investigate it. But not because a tabloid author goes off on a rant. Irresponsible, sensational journalism like that is only going to cause problems- not solutions.

In all honesty I wouldn’t expect a Newspaper Reporter to have proof in such a case.

A reporter doesn’t have the power to exhume bodies, conduct forensic medical examinations, subpoena or question Israeli Defense Forces personnel or compel their individual testimony.

Usually in cases involving misconduct by member(s) of official organizations like militaries or government agencies all reporters can do is unearth witnesses that they feel are credible. Then it’s up to the actual government or law enforcement body from there to decide if it warrants an investigation.

I think it’s highly responsible and speaks to the reporter’s credibility as a journalist as opposed to the credibility of the story itself that he states he has no proof. That in itself does not mean the allegations aren’t provable provided an credible investigation by properly empowered authorities in to the matter.

It’s very much a situation like what goes on in Guantanamo Bay regarding detainees; no reporter has direct enough access to what truly goes on or the things that would prove what really goes on.

Yet there have been incidents where detainee allegations made to reporters are reported by reporters based simply on what the detainee is purporting and subsequently investigations have been carried out by the Justice Department and Military as well in to the allegations.

All I am calling for is Israel to responsibly do the same. It could all be fiction, it could all be fact, but reporters aren’t law enforcement agents or prosecutors.

Ultimately courts of law should always determine fact.

We do live in a world full of prejudices and misconceptions and the easiest and shortest route to overcome those is through the fact finding, educational, free speech process, where people are presented with the actual facts instead of simply an argument.

I can’t condone the way the Israeli government is responding because it only makes the situation all that much more controversial in what really is an attack on free speech and a free press. To many people that would make it appear like Israel is hiding something and I tend to agree with mmichael that the Israeli Government wouldn’t be directly involved in such a practice, but that doesn’t mean a profiteer or ring of them operating in violation of Israeli law isn’t engaged in such a practice.

When a CIA interrogator steps over the line of what’s sanctioned policy in Guantanamo it doesn’t mean the entire American Government is responsible or every American is a sadistic torturer. We prove that as a nation and a people by investigating allegations of misconduct in official and prescribed ways and assign guilt to those who are found to be and absolve those who aren’t found to be guilty. It isn’t done though on an Ambassadorial level, and it isn’t done by an attack on the free press or what is essentially an honest reporter saying “I can’t prove it” but I do believe it might be true.

One would think or at least I like to imagine one would think that Israel would be very grateful for such an editorial if after investigating with due diligence it led to them being able to either dispel what could then be proven to be rumors based on fear or slanders or to be able to apprehend such culprits and perpetrators if someone is guilty of such allegations and prosecute them to the fullest extent of Israeli law thus ensuring the integrity of it’s own government and military and it’s own government and militaries reputation.

I sure do appreciate everyone’s comments and opinions, but in absence of a credible official investigation by duly empowered authorities all anyone can do whether it is a Swedish Reporter or an Israeli Ambassador or an ATS member is provide comments and opinions.

Thanks for posting AshleyD



[edit on 21/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In all honesty I wouldn’t expect a Newspaper Reporter to have proof in such a case.

A reporter doesn’t have the power to exhume bodies, conduct forensic medical examinations, subpoena or question Israeli Defense Forces personnel or compel their individual testimony.

I do agree- they will be limited in their gathering of evidence. However, what I had in mind throughout this thread is contrasting the Swedish journalist of this thread who admits to having no evidence with the Austrian journalist, Jane Burgermeister, who did her homework and gathered as much information as she could (I believe it was something like a 60 paged file) before making the accusations she did against certain organizations and individuals in a medical conspiracy.

It's responsible investigative journalism to have something substantial to back up your allegations, especially one so serious, instead of 'I have no proof but we need to investigate Israel because a Jew in New York did something.'

reply to post by AshleyD


Looking at things from a purely logical standpoint of two things is equal to, less than, or more of another, some might say that:

A Swedish Reporter saying he believes something to be true even though he has no proof = an Israeli Ambassador saying something is not true even though he has no proof.

They are in fact essentially the same thing, as each is simply saying what they believe to be true without either having had the opportunity to truly undertake completely on a fact finding mission.

I think it’s important to consider that Gaza is not an Australia or Canada or United States or even a Sweden, all of which are first world nations. Gaza is an impoverished, war torn, third world city state that is the most densely populated place on the planet, with an infrastructure not just recently destroyed by military incursion against it, but a state that has it’s infrastructure routinely and regularly destroyed by military incursion.

The why for and what for of that sorry state is neither here nor there in assessing blame, as the point is that there is no Fed-Ex Kinkos waiting on every other corner, or New York Public Library, or City Hall with archives of records dating back years or decades or much of anything that’s not in a near constant state of dysfunction.

The only place worse I could think of to have to unearth the facts of a story would be Mogadishu in Somalia.

When you add Israel’s own intense security interest into the mix, not to mention local Israelis who don’t always extend a warm welcome to the international press depending on the type of story the reporter is after, I for one wouldn’t relish the daunting task of having to carry out an independent investigation in such challenging environments.

Yet here in America, even through the press has very limited and restricted access to detainees at Guantanamo, it has been through initial news reports of nothing but detainee’s allegations that eventually prompted the U.S. Justice Department to investigate reports of detainee abuse. There was no initial evidence other that he said, she said that prompted journalists to write about it, which prompted the U.S. Government to officially look in to charges of it’s own alleged misconduct.

The wealth or abundance or quality of evidence shouldn’t preclude investigations when it involves something particularly heinous.

Ultimately it’s in any Government’s best interest to make sure it’s own standards of conduct and morality are being met.
Some would say responsible government would always be eager to investigate allegations and charges made against its proper function as a hallmark of good and responsible government.

Whether it’s on weak clue or a hundred strong ones that point to wrong doing, it still can and will lead to wrong doing in those cases where laws, codes, policies and directives are being violated.

It’s not irresponsible in the slightest to make an accusation once one believes there is enough grounds to warrant an accusation. To not do so would have disastrous consequences on the world if everyone simply never spoke until they had irrefutable proof of something. Frowning on such a process truly is frowning on free speech, and not accepting the press’s right to do so really is saying there should be no free press.

What then should we do if all of a sudden Israel or some other similar nation takes offence to the fact that the sky is blue and insists it’s red? This type of thinking opens the door to the exact type of dictatorial policies and regimes where things like genocide or organ harvesting could easily in fact occur.

All I can say honestly if I was the leader of a nation where such allegations were made, I would be looking in to it, long and hard. Why Israel chooses not to, is Israel’s business.

What isn’t Israel’s business is telling other nations what should be fit to print and what shouldn’t, and what evidentiary standards should apply. It simply goes against the principals of freedom.

most jews have no clue about some of the scandals that go on, so it is terrible to blame them all. Still though, talmudic rabbis have invented scripture to justify these atrocities (these scriptures date back to the time of the pharisees which jesus called the "church of satan"). because they are against the "goyim" (gentiles), rabbis are able to justify murder, lying, child abuse, etc. here are some of their scriptures:

www.rense.com...

so yes, some jews really do belive in murder:

"...according to the known Jewish ruling that Christians are idol worshippers." (Likkutei Sichos 37:198)

"We must not make a covenant with idolaters, to agree on keeping peace with them or accept them practising idolatry, because it says (Deut 7:2) Thou shalt not make a covenant with them. Either they give up idolatry or they are killed. And it is forbidden to pity them, since it says (ibid.): Nor shalt thou shew mercy unto them.
-------

'It is our duty to force all mankind to accept the seven Noahide laws, and if not – they will be killed.'-- Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg:

A gentile...is liable for the death penalty...if he has invented a religious holiday for himself...The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' for themselves by their own devices. Rather they may either become a Ger Tzeddek and accept all the Mitvahs; or he (the Noahide) should stand fast in his Torah (the seven Noahide Laws) without adding or diminishing...and if he does make some new 'mitzvah,' we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is obligated with the death penalty for this..." (Rambam Mishne Torah—Hilchos Melachim 10:9)


GEMARA. … Our Rabbis taught: …….and they are executed by decapitation; for every death penalty decreed for the sons of Noah is only by decapitation. — Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin 56a
Soncino 1961 Edition, page

--------------
BUT!! most jews do not know about this though. it is many of the pharisee rabbis that are causing the problems.

Originally posted by AshleyD
It's a lot like the Obama racism accusation that frustrates me.

Exactly! And what gets me is that I used to hold both Obama and Israel in such high regard (though not American) and when I found the truth about them people call me anti-American racist anti-semitic its ridiculous.

However, what I am trying to point out is that accusations, especially blood libel, is often an unfounded witch hunt of sorts.

It is just like the police though there is NEVER any proof of anything! It goes on evidence! Testimony, witnesses, lie detector, and things that connect. If someone tells me 'he hit me' I have no clue the truth. They could have fallen on a doorknob all I know and blame someone they hate. But it goes by witnesses. And who knows sometimes witnesses lie/forget/embellish.

In this specific incident of the Swedish newspaper, when he admits to having no proof, it really makes me wonder what his intentions are.

I think none because there is nothing to gain from it. He already receives many death threats. Many people now will not take him seriously/buy his articles. In America criticise Israel is a career suicide. The Palestinians live in a pretty bad situation already all their other claims and the rich nations do not notice. Why would one more thing make them suddenly change?
I dunno its not like hes Arab if he was then you could say it is suspicious. I use to think all about pPalestine was propaganda, and it was Christian activists who show me that it is truth.

I'm going to chime in here with my two €uro-cents!

This is a mess! I'm also quite sure that most Israelis has nothing to do with the illegal organ trafficking, to suggest otherwise would be utter ignorance!

However! there seems to be some kind of 'illegal organ trafficking ring' where some rough elements of the Israeli mafia are connected/involved with 'illegal organ trafficking'.

Turkey arrests Israeli suspected of organ trafficking

Prof Zaki Shapira charged with belonging to black market organ trade ring in private Istanbul hospital. Police make arrest after disgruntled former patients open fire on staff

Lilach Shoval Published: 05.01.07, 21:50 / Israel News

Turkish police on Tuesday arrested an Israeli doctor suspected of being involved in an illegal ring of organ traders operating out of a private hospital in Istanbul.

The man, Professor Zaki Shapira, was arrested in the midst of a gun battle which erupted in the hospital last weekend after four armed men stormed the facility and demanded their money back.

According to Turkish media reports the four men opened fire at the medical staff and police were alerted to the scene, one of the policemen who responded to the call was wounded in the shootout.

After the incident police conducted a thorough investigation and found it had been ordered to close down by a court order more than a month earlier due to illegal organ transplants it carried out. The hospital had received numerous similar warnings in the past. Four patients were waiting in the hospital for transplants at the time of the incident.

Police detained 17 people for questioning – including Professor Shapira. Two Turkish doctors were also arrested

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Jerusalem confirmed that Professor Shapira, formerly head of the Beilinson hospital transplant unit in Petah Tikva, was arrested. Ministry officials said that the Israeli embassy in Ankara and consul's office in Istanbul are providing the man with the necessary consular assistance.

www.ynetnews.com...

Ex-Israeli army officer arrested in Brazil charged with illegal organ trafficking

SAO PAULO, Brazil (AFP) — A retired Israeli army officer under arrest in Brazil on suspicion of belonging to an international human kidney trafficking ring has told a court the Israeli government financed organ transplants, press reports here said.

Geldaya Tauber Gady told a court that Israel financed organ transplants in other countries, primarily South Africa, through national health services.

Organ transplants are not illegal in Israel. But due to religious objections mainly by ultra-orthodox Jews, there is a critical lack of organ donors in Israel, and patients in need of a transplant are usually obliged to travel abroad.

Gady told the court that an Israeli government official, identified only as Ilan, put him in touch with an intermediary in Brazil, retired military police captain Ivan Bonifacio da Silva.

The police captain was also arrested in Recife in northeastern Brazil.

"The Israeli government is aware of the traffic in organs for patients in its country and pays for all transactions through four health plans," the daily O Globo quoted Gady as telling the court.

findarticles.com...

Israel Arrests Men Who Mediated China Organ Transplants

Primary suspect told Israeli newspaper that organs come from Falun Gong among others

Epoch Times Israel Staff - Aug 05, 2007

Four men accused of pocketing millions of dollars that patients had paid for organ transplants in Asia were arrested in Israel this week. The arrests followed months of investigation after the main suspect admitted to an Israeli newspaper that the organs were coming from Chinese death row inmates and prisoners of conscience, including Falun Gong practitioners.

Yaron Izhak Yodukin, CEO of Medikt Ltd. and its Israeli counterpart, was arrested Tuesday for not reporting millions of dollars in income earned by mediating organ transplants for Israelis in China and the Philippines. In recent years, hundreds of Israelis are reported to have traveled to Asia for transplants.

According to Yediot Achronot, Israel's largest newspaper, the country's authorities began investigating Yodukin's activities after he said in an undercover interview nine months ago that the organs his company was helping to provide in China came from political prisoners, death row inmates and people arrested for practicing Falun Gong.

During the investigation, the authorities reportedly discovered that Yodukin's company had been turning in fraudulent receipts to a national healthcare provider and thereby avoiding tax payments on millions of dollars in earnings.

According to Yediot, the receipts reported costs of organ transplants that were much higher than in reality. By charging Israelis more than what was necessary, Yodukin and his colleagues then pocketed the difference, amounting to as much as six million dollars.

Suspected of aiding Yodukin in his tax fraud scheme are his assistant Peleg Matan, Medikt manager Ilan Perry, and a company lawyer whose name has yet to be made public. All three were also arrested this week.

Adding to the seriousness of the episode have been reports that senior administrators in one of the country's main healthcare providers—Kupat Cholim Klalit—were somehow involved or aware of what Yodukin and his associates were doing.

www.theepochtimes.com...

Organ trafficking is big & lucrative business! and I'm sure there are plenty of rough people who are involved in this, one way or another! even people connected on a Goverment level, health officials, military, rough Intelligence sevices, mafia etc! all over the world! - and NOT ONLY! in Israel!

The Chinese mafia seems to like dealing with organs!

The South American mafia are well knowned for their organ trade, even a white tourist has been kidnapped and found dead later missing organs and two kidneys short! - in the 1980's this crime situation in South America (I lived there during the 80's) got worse - a lot of poor people were kidnapped and disappeared in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela and some of them were found dead later in the bush/jungle in the countryside or in the vegetation of the rural-urban fringe/outskirts of a city with organs missing, and their organs were sold to rough & exclusive clinics. (I know this firsthand since one of my best friends worked in 'PTJ' Policía Técnica Judicial/homicídios)

Unfortunately! their biggest clients who are buying the organs for top dollars are citizens of rich first world countries like EU-USA-Israel-Singapore etc.

Even worse is that most health officials are turning a blind eye to most of this illegal organ trade, they are not questioning WHERE the organs comes from - and they don't want know either! they're just happy it's available as an alternative for patients through private clinics. And other officials are payed to look the other way.

As long as there are rich people willing to pay top dollar for organs, the MSM will never write about this.

But I think it's important to bring out this shady business into the light for people to know that this kind of illegal organ trafficking exist - even if the 'Gaza' example stated in the Swedish article can't be verified! but it's utterly wrong to put the blame soley on some Israelis for being involved in this trafficking since most of the rich first world countries has citizens who are involved one way or another!

Please! we can't point the finger just at Israel - the author of the Swedish article actually points out in the article that other countries also exists where similar organ-stealing occur, and where people has been killed and later also lost their organs.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by rightuos
wait wait isn't Sweden a neutral country?...

Switzerland is the neutral one. Sweden is all about the easy to assemble furniture.

Oh, and by the way, if you don't know the difference between Switzerland and Sweden, you're probably not qualified to talk about international affairs.

as far as i know sweden hasent fougth a war in 450 years + and they where neutral´in ww2 exept for the part where most zyclon B cannisters have the print made in sweden on them ,

so either the holocaust happened and sweden got of the hook quite easily or the zyclon B - holocaust connection is not real.

´But i wouyld say sweden is a neutral country in the same sence that swiss has the world biggest naval merchant fleet.

reply to post by Chevalerous


Thanks for posting the many additional sources of information on this subject.

I very much agree with you that many players are involved internationally with the illicit organ trade. It's why I posted on the front page of the thread China's well known participation and it's harvesting of organs from condemned prisoners sentenced to die by the Chinese State.

China's practice is particuarly disturbing because the executions are carried out in a manner that makes the harvesting of the organs a priority.

The condemned are executed in mobile vans that function as surgical units and the death sentence is carried out on the way to the airport as well as the organ harvesting in order to load the organs that have a shelf life of only a few hours to less than a day on a plane bound for the recepient.

You are correct that it is very often criminal style mafias that make this trade flourish and criminal gangs from all over the world certainly seem to be involved, including Jewish/Israeli ones.

While thanks to contributors like you, a lot of great information regarding the illegal traffic in human organs has been posted to the thread, the thread's main story is actually just about the Israeli's Ambassador's reaction to the editorial of a Swedish journalist regarding his personal suspicions as to what extent Israel and the IDF might be involved.

Whether the criminals involved in this trade are Chinese, Indian, Columbian, Brazilian, American or Israeli the important thing is that as usual the French had nothing to do with it!



[edit on 22/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by zerbot565

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by rightuos
wait wait isn't Sweden a neutral country?...

Switzerland is the neutral one. Sweden is all about the easy to assemble furniture.

Oh, and by the way, if you don't know the difference between Switzerland and Sweden, you're probably not qualified to talk about international affairs.

as far as i know sweden hasent fougth a war in 450 years + and they where neutral´in ww2 exept for the part where most zyclon B cannisters have the print made in sweden on them ,

so either the holocaust happened and sweden got of the hook quite easily or the zyclon B - holocaust connection is not real.

´But i wouyld say sweden is a neutral country in the same sence that swiss has the world biggest naval merchant fleet.

Well! that's simply not true! - Sweden never manufactured or sold any Zyklon B to the germans - the Zyklon B the German used were manufactured in Germany under license from patentholder IG Farben in Germany by:

-Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke

-Degesch (Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung mbH

-The 'Kaliwerke', from the Czech town of Kolin, also supplied prussic acid to the 'Dessauer Werke'.

Later the rights were sold to:

-The Heerdt and Linger GmbH

-Tesch and Stabenow (Tesch und Stabenow, Internationale Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung m.b.H., or Testa)

Both located in Hamburg.

en.wikipedia.org...

Sweden never manufactured or sold Zyklon B!


Furthermore the last battle Sweden as a country fought on Swedish soil with an foreign enemy was exactly this month 200 years ago! the battle of 'Sävar' & 'Ratan' near Umeå which ended 19th of August 1809

Since then the only Swedes who are in battle belong to Swedish UN/Nato forces in Kongo 1960's/The Balkans 1990's/and now currently in Afghanistan.

200 Years Since Sweden Loses Finland

Exactly 200 years have passed since the last military battle was fought on Swedish soil - bloody clashes between Sweden and Russia.

The battles were fierce and numerous -– with field artillery and ship's cannons booming from the shorelines and islands of the southern archipelago up through Finland and to the Swedish northeastern coast - above Umeå – to the small northern towns of Ratar and Sävar where the final skirmishes were fought - the towns obliterated and surrounding forest trees cut to stumps by the shelling.

That Swedish-Russian war was really only a minor rumbling on the fringe of a Napoleonic war machine rolling over Europe.

Over a century has passed since Sweden's super power era had faded – when Protestant Swedish warrior kings had carried their banners throughout the Baltic region and down deep into Catholic Germany - and Sweden had long lost much of its Baltic territory.

By the 19th century, France and Russia dominated the scene, eager to push a weakened Sweden away from its only ally Britain. For its help, Russia would be given Sweden eastern half - Finland.

The Russian army and navy swept over southern Finland, moving north and then crossing the Baltic over into Swedish territory:

For as the battles raged in the north, the political situation down in Stockholm darkened: Swedish King Gustav the 4th who hated Napoleon as the biblical devil himself was blamed for bungled military leadership, was arrested and deposed, and his government dismissed.

www.sr.se...

www.napoleon-series.org...

But the real last battle was during the Campaign against Norway in 1814, in the Battle of Kjölbergs bro, one of the last battles Sweden fought before adopting a policy of neutrality.

The Campaign against Norway, or The Norwegian-Swedish War of 1814 was fought between Sweden and Norway in the summer of 1814. The war resulted in Norway entering into union with Sweden, but with its own constitution and parliament. It is the last war to have been fought by Sweden to date.

en.wikipedia.org...




[edit on 22-8-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


mmm thouse magical years , the britts torched the northern finnish costal towns and the swedes ran , i still dont count thouse as wars, more like minor distuptes involving parties that had nothing to do with the first dispute..


its good to know zyklon b where not licenced/made in sweden by wikipedia
pre ww2

but since swiss has the biggest merchant fleet, sweden still must be a neutral country.

I do not get one thing, how can soldiers shoot someone an then "harvest" organs?? Lab , doctors, equipment is needed. Also i doubt that after person dies, his organs remain "transplantable" for long. So if such a thing exists, it is a real organization. However since:

Bostrom stressed that he has no proof that Israeli soldiers were stealing organs, and that the purpose of his opinion article was to call for an investigation into numerous claims in the 1990s that such activity was going on.

So i join the journalist in call for investigation. And then if i am correct and this is all another crappy piece of propaganda - Israel should sue all involved, including the journalist. Good for justice and for budget. To let those things go bye and only cry "blood libel" is stupid. Let independent side investigate , and we will see.
By the way, what those "claims in 1990s" got to do with person arrested in US? He traded in organs, sure thing. And??? There are more organs sold around the world in a year then Palestinians killed since 1948. Fine example of mixing a truth case with totally different "no proof" one and getting a desired result. So i want investigation.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


how hard can it be to learn someone to "harvest" organs , its not like they need to dedicate them selfs to some sort of hippocratic oath

aslong as an organ is without falut and storaged properly id say you can do it anywhere and by anyone who has a stomach for it.

even i "harvest organs" when i go fishing , the roe and liver and the heart from time to time.

but if they are good for implants that i cant vouch.

and concidering that if its idf who´s doing it id say they have the money to train "medics" , its not like you need much , a few willing people and the know how.

the know how is easy when you have willing people "devoted" to their "cause".

Everytime some Israelis commit a crime, the propaganda-artists come in lamenting how THE jews are "evil scum".

You see this loop repeated endlessly around here.

I wonder how some of you would feel if people would make you personally responsible for a crime some other American did.


[edit on 22-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by zerbot565


Yeah, yeah. Cutting the fish, and taking out liver (or even kidney) for transplant is good comparison. Key thing is that the organ would, you know, like - work in a new body. This is not ,like - making a fish on a grill.
There is a reason for several specially trained doctors removing organs for transplant in hospitals, in proper conditions. Of course super-duper Zionist war criminals can do it all inside a jeep on a bumpy road using pocket knife and anatomy brochure with same efficiency. And what they can do with fish.....

reply to post by Skyfloating


ill carry my cross for this one,

we´ve tried ,

it might be wrong to accuse the citizen of its goverments wrong doings but since the goverment dosent listen to us (forigners), our only menas is you the citizen.
if we can reach you (throu food for thougth), mabye you can change your goverment ?

now ill go and carry my cross and just be.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


id asume army personel get good live training from a war zone daily.
medics being one of thouse who see the bleak side of it all ,

even i see it as a waste of good organs if they just leave the cadavers there.