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Swedish paper's organ harvesting article draws Israeli outrageStory Highlights

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


That's why it would be especially wise for Israel and the IDF to conduct an investigation and to cooperate fully with the U.S. Justice Departments investigation into the Rabbi in New Jersey under indictment for conspiracy to traffic in organs.

When Israel stops simply trying to sweep things under the carpet based on arguments dating back thousands of years...

That really will be the day that 'blood' slander stops because everyone will be operationg 'today' in the 'here and now', not in the past, but in the 'modern' world, where international standards of law and morality apply.

The best defense against persecution if it exists if it is going to exist is by being open and honest.

An investigation needs to be conducted. I think it's far better to remove doubt if such accusations are baseless in this manner than simply to deny them for the sake of denial or the paranoia based on things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I don't think anyone today would believe that Jews make matzah soup out of children's blood.

Yet clearly a black market in illegal organ sales and smuggling exists and clearly the U.S. Justice Department has unearthed ties to someone in Israel being involved otherwise there would be no New Jersey indictment.

People only become reasonable when that reason extends all the way around.

The reasonable thing to do is for Israel itself to conduct an investigation in to it, and likely the U.N. as well since it does involve accusations of attrocities committed against the Palestinians.

There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that based on the U.S. Justice Department's findings.

Israel can keep trying to keep the world in the dark ages through sheer theatrics or Israel can join the modern world through something called responsibility.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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Regardless of the truth (which I sincerely doubt) the damage is done. This will translate directly into attacks on Jewish communities throughout the world and will further heighten hatred of Israel and Jews in the Arab world, which I suppose is good news for some and maybe the desired effect of the article.

Incidentally Barak is planning to sue, for what it's worth.

And to the above poster: IDF investigation? Are you seriously telling me you or anyone that pays attention to this nonsense would believe a word they say?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by St Vaast
 





You know .. the claims that the recipient begins taking on the characteristics of the donor. And I was wondering how that might apply in the case of an Israeli walking around with a Palestinian organ in his body.


This is one of the nicest things about ATS that it does attrack a type of individual who thinks just beyond the mere politics and stereo typing of people and issues and looking at the deeper metaphysical, mystical and spiritual side of the coin.

American Indians used to often eat the hearts of those they killed in battle thinking it would embibe them with the courage and soul of their dead enemy and make them stronger.

Organ transplants can be tricky business as your body may or may not accept the organ of course no one ever questions the organ as to whether it is accepting to body!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Regardless of the truth (which I sincerely doubt) the damage is done. This will translate directly into attacks on Jewish communities throughout the world and will further heighten hatred of Israel and Jews in the Arab world, which I suppose is good news for some and maybe the desired effect of the article.

Incidentally Barak is planning to sue, for what it's worth.

And to the above poster: IDF investigation? Are you seriously telling me you or anyone that pays attention to this nonsense would believe a word they say?


There is an old saying Matt called 'leave no stone unturned' and I don't think an IDF investigation could hurt. The U.S. Army often investigates accusations of wrong doing and disciplines officers and enlisted soldiers based on a court system using the military code of justice.

The U.S. Justice department is still weighing whether to attempt to prosecute CIA interrogators who went beyond questioning standards allowed by policy and law and might have crossed those lines.

Israel has nothing to loose in conducting it's own investigation and much to gain.

What you are theorizing is very much like those people stating that there is no point in investigating Obama's Birth Certificate because no matter what the investigation concluded some people wouldn't believe it.

That's no excuse to deny the wheels of justice to those who do have faith in justice.

Finally Matt the paranoia evidenced by your comments of the damage is already done, Israel will be under attack is just that, paranoia.

The only thing Israel is in danger of loosing is it's credibility because collective paranoia is not an acceptable excuse in modern society to ignore moral and legal standards.

Fears are always imagined and seldom ever real and the best way to expose what is imagined and seperate it from actual fact is through investigation, not through incendiary or racial or paranoid statements.

There is no way something could possibly work if you don't give it a chance...

Want to win the lottery? You have to buy a ticket first friend Matt.

Come on up to the next level...the air is fine!



[edit on 20/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Britguy
 



would have been better if you posted an url concerning the 'ringworm treatment' which killed or maimed thousands of people, if these sources are true...

hwww.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/09/11/p19437

at any rate, WW2 is now being sold as the end to the evil of an out-of control medical profession, among other things, which strains credulity, because neither did the nazis invent Eugenics (among other derivatives of dehumanizing utilitariansim) nor did all experts trained in their ways suddenly forget their entire curriculum.

[edit on 2009.8.20 by Long Lance]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Jimea
 


Thanks for posting and keeping us updated on what's happening in Sweden regarding this story.

I personally think Israel would have better served itself by responding with bold headlines saying "Israel is launching a complete investigation into allegations of IDF organ harvesting and will leave no stone unturned"

Ultimately the shroud of 'perfection' Israel constantly tries to drape upon itself does lead others to speculate as when a nation isn't forth coming with the facts in a credible manner all one can do is speculate.

It all boils down to will you be a good 'friend' and speculate the 'Israeli way' or are you some bigotted anti-semite and Nazi who 'lies'!

It's a childesh response to a serious matter and I am glad to hear that Swedens State Department isn't going to just buckle under Israeli pressure.

The truth sets people free and ultimately Israel creates a prison for itself by constantly trying to deny those interested in the real truth and the whole truth, good, bad or ugly.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 
Barak won't sue. Libel is only libel if its not true, so to test that, the Palastinian witnesses would have to be brought to Sweden. Just imagine the media circus that would be... & then imagine what would happen if the defence insisted on exhumation. It'd have to be done in the presence of experts appointed by the Swedish court, which would be against Israeli policy to let more foreign observers into Palastine anyway, but what if there was even 1 organ missing? It needn't have been stolen for transplant: doctors sometimes keep interesting specimens for teaching, etc. but the possibility that it could have been stolen would be proved.
All around, a court case would be a PR nightmare for Israel & worse because the longer it went on, the more news coverage it would get.
My bet is that he's blustering, hoping that it'll be soon forgotten & people will just remember: "Israel accused" "denied vociferously" "legal action" = must be false.
If I was the journalist, I'd be keeping a close eye on Barak's statements, because if he directly accused me of libel, rather than merely talking possible legal action, I'd sue him for slander!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Regardless of the truth (which I sincerely doubt) the damage is done. This will translate directly into attacks on Jewish communities throughout the world and will further heighten hatred of Israel and Jews in the Arab world, which I suppose is good news for some and maybe the desired effect of the article.

Incidentally Barak is planning to sue, for what it's worth.

And to the above poster: IDF investigation? Are you seriously telling me you or anyone that pays attention to this nonsense would believe a word they say?


Friend Matt here is some additional food for thought as you and I are both well acquainted through our previous exchanges regarding Zionism and Israel on other threads.

You want to suppose that some unwarranted and untoward injury is going to befall Israel and the Jews of the world as a result of such a story yet at the same time I don’t think you even understand what this story really is about.

The matter of alleged organ harvesting by the IDF is not the story. In reality that was simply an editorial by a Swedish journalist and doesn’t qualify as ‘breaking news’ per ATS standards or anyone standards since these allegations have been floating around for period of at least several months if not longer.

The actual story…now follow along here please…the actual story is ISREAL’S REACTION TO THE EDITORIAL IN A SWEEDISH NEWSPAPER.

That’s what made headlines, not the organ harvesting but how Israel responded to a Swedish Newspaper’s Editorial by a Swedish Journalist.

Now Matt I don’t know what language they speak in Sweden (yes Protoplasmic Traveler admits when he does not know something) and Matt I don’t subscribe to that Swedish newspaper because what ever language it is they do speak and read and write in Sweden I don’t!

Now CNN who carried Israel’s reaction to the Editorial was not picking up on the Editorial but was picking up on the response to it by Israel and in that process through extension carried the Editorial much further and wider than it would have gotten if the ISRAELIS HAD JUST KEPT THEIR MOUTHS SHUT ABOUT IT!

So in reality had Israel not COMMENTED officially in such a CHILDESH way regarding the Editorial there would be no ATS thread authored by me regarding this subject, and millions, maybe billions less people around the globe would have ever heard about this alleged organ harvesting by the IDF because main stream media around the world doesn’t pick up on obscure Swedish Tabloid Editorials but it does pick up every INFLAMATORY bit of NONSENSE that Israel ANNOUNCES.

Once again here now we have a case of “Jews need to be paranoid and worried about this” yet it was the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT that broadcast it as far and wide as humanly possible through it’s INFLAMATORY RACIST STUPIDITY!

As usual the point I am always trying to make to you and others on the pro-Zionist side of the coin is ISRAEL really is ISRAELS worst enemy, because well, IT DOES REALLY STUPID THINGS.

Then it wants the rest of the world to think REALLY STUPID THINGS TOO, and the rest of the world Matt, NOT AS STUPID AS ISRAEL WOULD LIKE.

Think about it Matt, how the Israeli Government by criticizing free speech and playing the Race Card made it 100 times worse if not a 1,000 times worse had it just kept it’s mouth shut or responded INTELLIGENTLY to the matter.

Don’t let the boogey man under your bed and closet get you now!


[edit on 20/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Well done to Donald Bostrom for having the courage to print this piece, and to Sweden for having free media.


Its because we dont have corporations owning all the networks. Then we would also not have free media.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet contributor Donald Boström visited a West Bank village and heard villagers complaints regarding Bilal Achmed Ghanaian, whose body was returned after an IDF killing minus internal organs.

IDF says Palestinian dead are autopsied when possible.

the Aftonbladet article concludes:


www.aftonbladet.se...

“We know that the need for organs in Israel is great, that an extensive illegal organ trade has existed a long time that it is often done with the blessing of the authorities, including senior doctors at the major hospitals involved, as well as officials at various levels. And we know that Palestinian young men disappeared, back five days later in secrecy at night, all sewn up. [...] It is time to shed light on this macabre activity and what has occurred in the Israeli occupied territories since the Intifada started.”


This story is based on a single unsubstantiated complaint and pure conjecture. Never asked is why a body with organs removed would be returned to a family if there was alleged selling of these parts. It would literally be a dead giveaway.

The Swedish tabloid that published this is notorious for it’s creation of unsubstantiated stories that. It has been sued for this practice many times.

This is yet another case of attention grabbing sensationalism for the sake of selling a rag. Propaganda, screaming headline, unrelated photos, no facts.

Discussed elsewhere on ATS:




www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Try to follow the source of the information. It is claimed in the original article that rabbis which were detained in New Jersey on racketeering charges, and selling organs, this part is true, but then the original article claims that the organs come from Palestinian children being kidnapped and their organs removed...but if you follow what really was happening in the organ smuggling business these rabbis were engaged in you can read this..

This is what your article claims.


The article also links the issue to a recently discovered crime syndicate in New Jersey, which was involved in organ smuggling. Several American rabbis were arrested in connection to the case.

www.presstv.com...

This is what was really happening in the organ smuggling the Rabbis were engaged.


Mr Marra singled out Brooklyn Rabbi Levy Izhak Rosenbaum as operator of a kidney smuggling operation: "Mr Rosenbaum, who we refer to as our kidney salesman – his business was to entice vulnerable people to give up a kidney for $10,000 that he would sell for $160,000."

thescotsman.scotsman.com...

Although it is still downright evil that these rabbis were enticing people to sell one of their kidneys for $10,000 and then to sell them for $160,000, the source of your article is not only wrong, but is clearly trying to use the corrupted evil rabbis as an excuse to claim that "Israeli soldiers are kidnapping Palestinian children to sell their organs."

The original story is hence a LIE and a hoax.

There are evil people in every walk of life, and yes there are unfortunately also evil and corrupted rabbis, just like there are evil and corrupted people of every race, religion, or spiritual path. It is a fact of life but this is no excuse to make up claims that "Israeli soldiers are kidnapping Palestinian children to sell their organs...


Some people love an opportunity to foam at the mouth on Israel. Attention seeking tabloid journalism is all the rage – and that includes here.

Mike


[edit on 20-8-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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[accidental double post]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


If that were the case why would Israel be against investigation?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Then once again Michael my friend why would Israel give the editorial in tabloid such greater legs to carry it further on if it's truly only tabloid fodder?

Let's forget about the practice of conducting autopsies on the people an army murders. That in itself is about as sensible as checking to see if you have oil in your engine after it's blown up.

You are a highly intelligent and logical man Michael so I ask you as one human being to another, can you see how Israel does not serve itself well through these kinds of theatrical reactions to free press?

The editorial by a Swedish tabloid wasn't news worthy on a global scale. We both can surely admitt to that fact.

What made it news worthy was Israel's strong condemnation of a free press in Sweden.

When you take away the substance of the editorial which by your own admission isn't credible, what you do see is a credible attempt by Israel to dictate to foreign governments what is acceptable in a free press and what isn't acceptable in a free press by Israeli standards.

Would I loose sleep at night worrying about a rouge group of Mossad agents trying to murder me and harvest my organs? No, I sure wouldn't! (The local Mossad really loves me believe it or not)

Would I worry based on the real story "Israel condemns the Swedish Free Press" over a tabloid story, that Israel would like for there not to be a Free Press and to supress real journalism for the sake of creating a 'public relations persona' befitting of it's ego and arrogance?

Yes I sure do.

My contention to you as a man of intelligence is through this attempt to strong arm, and dismiss an editorial critical of Israel that it actually made far more people aware of the substance of the editorial than if it would have chosen not to respond, or had it chosen to respond reasonably with something like "Israeli Government announces fact finding body to investigate alledged organ harvesting by IDF troops".

Now lots of people who wouldn't have heard about it would still not have heard about it had Israel simply not tried to interfere in the Free Press and dictate to other nations what's allowed in their newspapers.

Or Israel would seem reasonable and credible by announcing and investigation and truly distancing itself on an official level from any misconduct.

Instead what happens in real minds is this "Israel attacks free press".

"Israel might be really guilty of this because Israel attacks free press".

That's the logic that seems to escape either the paranoid desire to dominate other people and nations and thought and the media at all cost...

Or as I have said before to you the Zionist influence in Israel is really trying to make the rest of the world 'not like' Israel...

Because Michael, on a scale of 1-10 of public relations blunders...Israel's response in my oppinion is about an 11.

I would need to see some very credible evidence as to why the autopsy of battlefield dead is desirable.

The only semi-credible reason my logical mind can think of is to rate the actual 'effectiveness' of the 'ordinance' used to kill the combatant...

That's a little too Nazi like for my tastes mind you, but let's leave it at scientists are geeks that lack sensitivity rather than make it as sinister as a Nazi experiment to determine how effective munitions are at producing kills and injuries.

That would be the only 'acceptable' excuse to autopsy battlefield dead I could think of and that's only marginally acceptable from a moral standpoint.

It's simply not as innocent as some people would claim for the sake of convenience and dismissal.

I sure wouldn't want my body being disected so some nerd could determine how effective the bullet that killed me was and what it's actual spin rate was and how it degraded going through my tissue...

So let's not pretend this is Quincy at work here doing a good deed in these autopsies.

Then lets consider, do you know what a Kidney looks like, if one of your relatives was delivered dead on your door step by the Canadian Government that had first killed them and then autopsied them would you actually know how to cut open your relative and check to see if a Kidney was missing? Would you even want to? Would you even want to see a loved one further desicrated by taking them to a qualified Medical Examiner, do you even know a qualified Medical Examiner?

Lot's and lot's of holes, in the story that pokes holes in the story in my humble oppinion.

Israels attack on the Free Press is going to cause more of a backlash than harvesting organs would because it threatens everyone and the Free Press.

There is such a thing as being too clever for one's own good Michael.

Word to the wise!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by McGinty
 


He said he has no evidence. If I were to accuse somebody of a horrific crime with no evidence I'd be destroyed along with my credibility. In this case, people who hate for the sake of hate will use this as a weapon. Actions have consequences.

This sort of thing breeds even greater hate. It is perfectly conceivable some innocent person could be killed or injured by somebody or some group enraged by this wild speculation from a man who clearly states he has NO evidence.

The true conspiracy here is how hate groups and bigots use this sort of thing to justify their unjustifiable hate. We never see individuals attacked in regards to Israel or Jews in general. It is always Israel did this or the Jews did this. It is never John Doe and John Smith did this. Therein lies the lie.

Yes, blame those who actually do wrong when proof is available. The problem is that people condemn an entire people for the actions of a few. Just imagine if I condemned the entire Muslim Faith for the latest bombings of other Muslims. I would be vilified and attacked immediately. I would deserve it too. Where the Jewish People are concerned it is somehow acceptable??? ATS is full of threads of hatred from people not very good at hiding their true intent.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



I don't think anyone today would believe that Jews make matzah soup out of children's blood.


The incident I mentioned on this only happened in 2003.


I think it's far better to remove doubt if such accusations are baseless in this manner than simply to deny them for the sake of denial or the paranoia based on things that happened hundreds of years ago.


It didn't just happen hundreds of years ago. It has been happening for hundreds of years and still happens now. Even this decade. To me, organ trafficking is a contemporary twist.

Yes, it does happen all over the world but why do you feel an international investigation should occur against a nation because of one independent journalist who fully admits he has no proof?

No country opens up their proverbial books, so to speak, because what boils down to a tabloid paper accuses them of something. If it is going on then let the international community handle it. But I don't understand the rallying to action because of a rag who admits they can't back up what they're saying.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Proto, my friend.

You are obviously a very intelligent and thoughtful fellow. (That should make you radar antenna go up)

Because one has the ability to spin any event in a manner that serves their purpose doesn't mean anything and everything has to be spun automatically.

When it comes to certain matters, you, my dear close friend, do it at every opportunity.

I'll tell you a bit about autopsies. Medical researchers perform them to get new information that helps them in a number of ways. From gauging the level of harmful damage done by toxicities to understanding the susceptibilities of populations to certain illness, general health measuring, etc. How often do you get a chance to see the arterial cholestrol build up of a young Arab?

As most people who die are older, and families are usually reticent about having their loved ones carved up, the opportunities are few. Particularly with a younger person, from whom much insightful data can be derived.

In the end it helps the medical world at large just that much more understanding how people in a region are responding to their environment, diet, stresses, etc.

The Israelis may be indulging in maiming and torturing people for amusement - and you would be pleased to find that out. But they would not be stupid enough to be taking organs from dead Palestinians to sell on the market. The discovery of this would put them in a situation that would cause them far more grief than it could possibly benefit financially. And no one can hide the fact that a body was cut open and organs removed. Were they wanting to go into this business, thousands of anonymous Darfur refugees have shown up at their borders and have been taken in charitably. The number became so great, the policy eventually had to change. One could make a killing with these people no one would ever know about if they disappeared. The Sudanese government would neither notice or be concerned.

Frankly, this story published is pure malign bunk. There's not any question.

Just a great opportunity for people who have festering resentments and hatreds, but care not to admit it, to become publicly outraged, indignant, with their keyboards and conversational skills. The small finger of the left hand invariably hovers restlessly over the "Z" key as they do this.

Nice to hear from you, my friend.


Mike



[edit on 20-8-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Probably for the same reason the U.S. Justice Department felt investigating a New York Rabbi for selling ogans illegally obtained and imported from Israel was a valid idea.

That would be because someone at the very least is conspiring to make it look like organs are coming from Israel.

Now maybe said Rabbi was harvesting them from Newark prostitutes, I don't know, that's what investigations are for!

That's what Judges and juries are for.

Is the Rabbi guilty of this? Not until a Court of Law says so! Though Federal Conviction rates hover around 92% once indicted.

Did the Rabbi say that the organs were coming from Israel? Yes he sure did, caught on tape. Did a tabloid report that? Nope, the New York Times, Washington Post and CNN to name just a few.

Did the U.S. Justice Department find a trail of money leading to Israel in a wide scale investigation into political corruption that uncovered amongst things like money laundering and influence peddling by other Rabbis, corrupt politicians and lobbiest? Yes, they sure did.

There is some real smoke here and from a humanitarian standpoint if there is any chance disenfranchised human beings are being 'murdered' simply to profit off of their organs, then yes, no stone should be left uncovered no door left locked.

Playing on people's fears and prejudices simply to avoid an inquiry is simply just a tactic that's foolishly employed. It raises a suspicion that need not be raised.

Here is a novel idea, if you join a Street Gang, a Motorcycle Gang, a Foot Ball team, a religion, or a political group you do so at your own risk.

As a former Los Angeles Ram's fan who once made the mistake of traveling to a sold out game to watch them play the San Francisco 49'ers in Candlestick Park dressed in my Ram's Cap, Ram's Jacket, with my Ram's seat cushion I realized too late I might have been safer dressing up in a KKK costume out in front of the Radio Station in Watts.

I was attacked three times physically, 20 times verbally, and even the police thought I was at risk and in jeapordy being a Ram's fan!

There are no gaurantees in life Ashley D! The good news is the Rams won! Though the 49ers beat them later on in the Conference Championship Game in San Francisco...I opted to stay home and watch it on TV in Los Angeles with the curtains drawn!

Israel nor any state or nation, nor any group, nor any person can make themselves immune from preconceived notions and prejudices, and rivalries and hatreds...

Not even Ram's fans can do that!

Israel should stop trying to dictate how the rest of the world can talk about it, think about it and respond to it, and consider a little better how it talks about and responds to the rest of the world.

Free speech is free speech and any group or nation intent on supressing or dismissing it is probably a nation or a group headed for a whole lot of needless trouble.

The truth will set people free...

Fear only imprisons them. I had fun at that game, it was harrowing, I took my chances...we all do.

Thanks for posting.


[edit on 20/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 




Because one has the ability to spin any event in a manner that serves their purpose doesn't mean anything and everything has to be spun automatically.

When it comes to certain matters, you, my dear close friend, do it at every opportunity.


Ah Michael my friend, how I miss it when you don’t show up to these threads and I am left having to debate the “you’re an anti-Semite crowd!” You might not always be correct (neither am I) but you are always informative and present your positions with real style and élan! Bravo as always.

Now you know why the local Mossad loves me, I can put a spin on anything!

Speaking of which, heads up for you, evidently the long term environmental impact from the Exxon Valdez spill has contaminated the ground water supply and after a couple decades of rain from the mountain runoff of the snow cap the toxicity levels of the ice up to three feet in depth in Alaska is no longer safe for Eskimo’s health! There is going to be a run on Eskimos looking to buy ice as a result and you my friend should be in on the ground floor!

It is of course a limited opportunity and while the EPA with a little persuasion is sitting on this report for the time being once the official word gets out and the run by Eskimos to buy Ice begins it will be too late!

Now back to topical business, the autopsy practice as you put it forward sounds good on the surface…

However one of the very insidious things about the Nazi death camps is that they weren’t really there just to exterminate people but to force Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Homosexuals and dissidents into menial slave labor.

Sadly being able to perform labors takes a certain caloric intake on a daily basis to maintain and promote muscle mass for lifting and pounding and pushing and pulling, and hand eye coordination to get that gun powder into shells…

Yet someone adequately nourished is also capable of putting up an adequate physical resistance and even escape from slave labor.

So those crazy diabolical Germans figured out a 1200 calorie a day diet would just be sufficient enough to allow a person to perform basic menial labor and hand eye coordination but not give them an excess of strength or coordination to the point that they could be physically capable of self defense or dexterous enough to escape.

They determined 800 calories a day was enough to keep a person from starving to death, though it would leave them emaciated and unable to perform labor.

They determined that after 6 months of a 1200 calorie a day diet that enough muscle mass and hand eye coordination would develop that a person could mount physical resistance effectively and become an escape hazard.

So after 6 months of 1200 calories a day laboring you got sent back to the camp for six fun filled months of volley ball on an 800 calorie diet. After 6 months on 800 calories they would up you to another six months of 1200 calories a day to send you back out to labor but then…

They determined that after you had been through the 1200 to 800 calorie prolonged diet twice that your nervous and muscle system was permanently damaged and you would never be able to labor a 3rd time effectively.

That’s when it was time for a state sponsored shower for those who had originally been deemed fit to work.

Now why bring this up? Well, because of the blockade of Gaza friend Michael. Many Gazans live on less than a 800 calorie a day diet. No need to get in to whether it’s Israel’s fault that they Gazans are blockaded or it’s the Gazans fault they are blockaded the average Gazan is just not a picture of typical western health, but…well on their way to that starved heroine supermodel look, you know without the makeup and the designer clothes!

Israel is hardly conducting autopsies on the ‘typical’ Arab, it’s conducting autopsies on people living in various states of malnutrition…

Doctor Geobells wants to know why! Mainly because he loves to see research like that, mainly for the kind of reasons above, and or scientific curiosity!

Now could Israeli scientist be studying the long term effects of blockading a whole society of people turning them into unhealthy Arabs to compare to autopsies of say those from the West Bank who aren’t under blockade.

Why yes, yes they could be. I really liked the checking the effectiveness of munitions version better Michael!

But since you insist on getting scientific lets get scientific. Lets not pretend it’s a humanitarian practice to autopsy people force to live in inhumane conditions, and once again lets not bother to assign the blame, lets just be realistic about the conditions they are living in which are well documented.

Finally I would like to say all kinds of people in the Military in all Militaries no matter how professional and well disciplined participate in Black Market enterprises. Stolen antiquities, local narcotics and prostitution rings are some of the more common things enterprising military personnel violating rules and regulations to make a buck participate in.

Yes, I tend to agree it would be very foolish of the Israeli State to officially participate in, even though China does officially harvest organs from the condemned.

That though would not stop an enterprising soldier, maybe even an American who has dual citizenship from say a place like New Jersey who is serving in the IDF from wanting to make a buck on the side for and with an uncle back home who is a Rabbi.

I have to admit at 160K if I stumbled across some fresh road kill I might be tempted to pull out my Swiss Army Knife ( I do not serve nor never have in the Swiss Army, nor is the fact I would use a Swiss Army knife mean Switzerland is in any way shape or form officially involved in said endeavor).

Simply put, Israel should investigate, it should also investigate while it’s at it, where the heck Barack Obama was really born, oh and why the girl who broke my heart decided to really stay with her husband instead of running off with me, oh and where I left my gray hushpuppies!

If they could get to the last one first, it would be much obliged, I am bordering on a fashion police call today without them!

Let’s put the investigative power of the vaunted Mossad to good use for a change!

Michael a pleasure as always, I favor an investigation into this matter. Hey good news, AIPAC can probably get us to pay for it!

Kaching!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don’t know what language they speak in Sweden

Svenske, my friend



Incidentally Barak is planning to sue, for what it's worth.

Wow... what a childish thing.. adult equivalent of tattling for nothing!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


You're indeed very passionate about this and that's fair enough, but my argument was pretty well balanced and in no way could be said to be partisan.

It's reasonable for a journalist to piece together what he's learnt and been told. It's equally reasonable for him to be flamed for it - the freedom to protest one's innocence makes the freedom to make accusations a necessary evil.

You may well be correct about this story, but the suggestion that there are some things in the global arena that journalist should not be allowed to do is a dangerous one.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by McGinty]



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