Obama Protesters = Patriots with Guns, Bush Protesters = Criminals with T-Shirts

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Originally posted by jd140
When did anyone carry an automatic rifle to a political rally.

Please provide a link that shows someone brought an automatic weapon to a rally.

The term "automatic rifle" is, in civilian settings, widely accepted verbal shorthand for "semi-automatic rifle", as opposed to bolt action or lever action or single shot rifle.

Accepted by who?

An automatic and semi automatic are two completely differant things and are not interchangeable. One fires continuesly by holding down the trigger and the other must have the trigger pulled each time to fire one round.

Nice try though.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by jd140]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I think it's stupid to brandish a firearm at a political rally, but I support the right for these people to make their statement, however stupid and however illogical it may be.

I donno...I can't help thinking that y'all have an alarming habit of shooting your Presidents and such. A gun at a rally is generally a poor idea.

To the original op, are you kidding me man, they called Bush every name in the book, protested him every day, now that the right does it, they are being called the evil ones. If bush did half of what Obama has done and his administration they would have lost their minds trying to get him out and arrested.

Originally posted by jd140
Please provide a link that shows someone brought an automatic weapon to a rally.

Well, he didn't actually fire it, so I'm not sure if it was a full auto or semi...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I donno...I can't help thinking that y'all have an alarming habit of shooting your Presidents and such. A gun at a rally is generally a poor idea.

Yeah, as I said, I personally think it's bad judgment.

Originally posted by Mr_XIM
To the original op, are you kidding me man, they called Bush every name in the book, protested him every day, now that the right does it, they are being called the evil ones.

Excuse me? Are you sure you're in the right thread? The OP says nothing about calling names or "evil ones". Maybe you should read it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You don't know?

How about they said it was an AR15 and they also said it was a semi automatic weapon.

Or you could just look it up instead of saying something that you didn't know if it was true or not. Unless you didn't care and saying that it was an automatic weapon just made your statement a little more forceful.

Google is more then just a silly sounding word you know.

Originally posted by jd140
Accepted by who?

Automatic Firearm

An automatic firearm is a firearm that fires, automatically extracts the used cartridge case from the barrel and ejects it, then loads a new case into the barrel; generally by harnessing the recoil of the cartridge's explosion. The term can be used to refer to semi-automatic firearms, which fire one shot per pull of the trigger, or fully automatic firearms, which will continue to load and fire ammunition until the trigger (or other activating device) is released or until the ammunition is exhausted.

Originally posted by jd140

Accepted by who?

By me, for one, and I am qualified to make that decision. By every LE officer I've ever known, and I've known a few. By most enthusiasts of such sports as practical pistol and practical rifle shooting.

An automatic and semi automatic are two completely differant things and are not interchangeable. One fires continuesly by holding down the trigger and the other must have the trigger pulled each time to fire one round.

I don't need you to teach me the difference between full and semi-automatic weapons. I've fired my share of both.

You are trying to split semantic hairs, here, and this digression from the topic of this thread is pointless.

Nice try, though.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



So know we are okay with wiki being a reliable source for info?

Funny how that is the case when it backs up our ignorant statement.

You really know America has no hope when even ATS members play into the 2 party game.

Just face it, they've already won if you still believe Republican or Democrat matter.

Click here for more information.

Hello all,

This may seem to be an odd thread for my first (after what, 8 or so years lurking?) ATS post, but I was just having this debate with a friend earlier.

First, it's not like the so-called "brandishers" were actually at the speech. As others have said, the Secret Service were doing their job. Besides, what kind of a would-be assassin would stand around, in broad daylight, with a group of other gun owners holding signs and giving TV interviews?

Second, watch the interview of the individual I presume most of you are talking about (the man with the AR-15). Skip ahead to 2:24 to avoid a needless introduction. I think you'll be surprised at his demeanor; yes, he may overstate the "need to be defended at all times" but it's clear that he is making a civil rights statement, not wishing the President harm.

Video here.

Third, on the issue of brandishing, it's not quite cut-and-dried; much like pornography, it's tough to strictly define—but you'll know it when you see it. Pointing a gun, waving a gun, etc., is brandishing; merely carrying a gun in a state with legal open carry, outside of any security zones, is not. Again, watch the video; are any of the protesters making threatening gestures?

Finally, the relative ignorance of a few of the previous posters is rather telling. The fact that so many refer to the aforementioned individual's gun as a "military style automatic rifle" would indicate to me that you know very little about firearms and have not taken the time to educate themselves on their real capabilities—instead the swallowing the Diane Feinstein narrative whole.

The AR-15 in question, while based on a military design and featuring a scary black color scheme, is semi-automatic like the majority of weapons in this country. Words due, in fact, have meaning, and calling it an "automatic" weapon is somewhat sensationalistic and clouds rational debate. It is not a heat-seeking magical sniper rifle; far from it. He probably didn't even have the thing loaded.

Learn a bit about civilian weaponry and you'll be a lot less mystified and easily misled by politicians, who I think we all universally detest and distrust here.

The gun owners at (near?) the rally were not breaking any laws. Were they wise? That's for them to decide. Bringing the guns certainly makes a statement. I have no love for the previous administration, and from my experience, most people standing in front of Gadsden Flags didn't think too highly of our past President either. Bringing protests in the Bush years obfuscates the real debate; it's not about Republicans vs. Democrats anymore, or who treats protesters better. It's about People vs. government.

Sorry for repeating anyone else; as this is my first post, it's taking forever for me to get the danged thing formatted and posted!

reply to post by jd140


The only time I've heard it being "accepted" was when erroneously referring to "automatic" pistols. Being non-revolver semi-auto's. ACP and such.

Well, I've also heard and read the media lie it's rear off year after year anout all these "automatic" rifles.

It's just convenient to drop the "semi" when the goal is harvesting fear in the minds of the ignorant. Such fear that causes one to "freak out" and claim a holstered weapon is being "brandished."

Originally posted by jd140
As long as its accepted by you then I guess its true then.

Count on it.

Silly, silly me and here I thought that auto and semi auto meant two differant things.

That's OK... now you know something you didn't know before.

Originally posted by jd140
So know we are okay with wiki being a reliable source for info?

Like you said - Google is your friend. Use it.

AR15 Automatic Weapon as an Investment
Evaluation of the AR15 Automatic
AR15 Automatic Military Rifle Manual

Give it up, man... That's not even the topic of the thread. I fully support the protesters in BOTH cases.

Originally posted by Ragnar Danneskjold
Words due, in fact, have meaning, and calling it an "automatic" weapon is somewhat sensationalistic and clouds rational debate.

I would agree with you in most cases. But I was simply using shorthand, not trying to instill fear.

Sorry for repeating anyone else; as this is my first post, it's taking forever for me to get the danged thing formatted and posted!

Welcome to ATS. I would invite you to read my posts and not make assumptions that I am trying to scare anyone. I'm not. As I have said, I am familiar with firearms and I fully support the Second Amendment. My saying "automatic" instead of "semi-automatic" was simply me being lazy.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Understood. I realize that firearm actions are not even what this thread is about. I guess my attending college in Ann Arbor has me jumping to conclusions; most of my peers don't know the difference between auto and semi-auto and my polisci class reacted visibly when I brought up the Heller case during a Supreme Court discussion. Ah well.

Originally posted by Ragnar Danneskjold
I realize that firearm actions are not even what this thread is about.

Exactly. But something I said must have inadvertently struck some nerves as only one or two posts in the entire thread are about the original topic. Oh, well.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I donno...I can't help thinking that y'all have an alarming habit of shooting your Presidents and such. A gun at a rally is generally a poor idea.

Come on.

There is no way somebody who intended to shoot a president would be carrying a firearm openly. It would prevent him from getting anywhere near the president and would make him the center of attention.

Use common sense.

What did bringing a firearm-legally- and standing in a puplic place near these functions do?

It took all of the focus off of Obama and put it onto the ones carrying the weapons. It got both sides attention -for different reasons- and overshadowed anything Obama did or said.

It isn't a bunch of insane thugs wanting to murder somebody. It is people using the tools at hand to game the political arena and the media just like the politicians and media game us.

Right now there is a huge FBI stack of paper on every one of those individuals who carried guns to these events and they are all still free as birds because they have commited no crimes. But they sure did stir up a few hundred million people didn't they?

Unless these guys have stationary that is pre-addressed to Jodie Foster they are a moot point. Plus they were covered by police and likely Secret service snipers the whole time.

If you are actually worried about assasins then you need to re-think where you are looking.

BH, with all due respect but...

But show up at an Obama protest packing a loaded automatic rifle and you get respect and even your 15 minutes of fame. No arrests, no hassle, no disrespect or stepping on the Second Amendment by Obama or his Secret Service

There was one rifle, it wasn't loaded NOR was it automatic, it was semi-automatic, big difference.

As soon as we lay down our arms, we will get raped by criminals and our own government institutions.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I donno...I can't help thinking that y'all have an alarming habit of shooting your Presidents and such. A gun at a rally is generally a poor idea.

Come on.

There is no way somebody who intended to shoot a president would be carrying a firearm openly. It would prevent him from getting anywhere near the president and would make him the center of attention.

Say what you like...it's your politicians and celebs being shot up, and even though this is a conspiracy site, sometimes it is just a lone nutbar. Never mind the fact that it sure is a distraction.