Top 50 living US War Criminals, and how to find them, page 2
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reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 10:45 AM by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Bunken Drum


I get some of your points except one thing. America does not bow to international law, when in fact the American Congress Authorized the use of military forces to attack Saddam. And since you like to point out international law... What about the UN Security Consul resolution that allowed force if Saddam didn’t comply?


reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 11:00 AM by marg6043
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


They did but the oil production and the investments are at a stand still, still security is an issue for the Chinese company to start drilling, in Jan 09 they started to look for the site where the first drilling will begin.

The construction of the oil platform has not began yet and still even with the oil that China will be able to dig out of Iraq is still a small amount compare to what Iraq oil supplies is suppose to be.

China is the first foreign company beside US that is drilling for the first time in Iraq since Saddam.

Now the oil produced in the first field is not going to be in the hands of the Chinese (interesting) the oil will be into the hands of the Iraqi government.

That if attacks to the fields do not slow or stop production.

Energy hungry China has finally got its hands into oil assets in Iraq, which has remained off-limits to foreigners since Saddam Hussein nationalised the industry in 1972. The state-run China National Petroleum Corporation has become the first foreign company to start work in an Iraqi oil field after a gap of 30 years. CNPC has launched work on a $3 billion old field development project at the Al-Ahdab oilfield in Iraq’s eastern province of Wasit. This is really a revival of an old project that was negotiated when Saddam still ruled the country. But his government later shelved the project when nationalisation kicked in. The present government in Iraq recently renegotiated the deal and offered CNPC a service contract last November. Under the agreement, Iraq’s state companies will keep all the oil while paying the foreign companies for their work, rather than sharing output with foreign partners.

Though the Chinese firm will not get a direct share out of the oil produced at this field, analyst regard it as a good deal because it will help China build relationship with Iraqi officials on the government and take forward Beijing’s endless quest for oil.

Analyst says Iraq’s decision to choose a Chinese firm as the first foreign company to be allowed into its oilfields is significant. It is seen by some as a sign that China’s overall diplomacy favouring Muslim nations in international affairs, even when it comes to taking a stand against the United States, has paid off in terms of business. Reports from Bagdad quoted Wasit governor Latif al-Tarfa describing the deal as “a significant event which signals the first contribution of a foreign company in developing Iraq’s oilfields for three decades”.

The Chinese delegation has been received and feted by Iraqi ministers. “The company is there at the site and has already taken the first steps,” Wasit was quoted as saying. CNPC said Al-Ahdab, which covers 200 square kilometres, is expected to reach 25,000 barrels per day within three years and 115,000 barrels per day within six years. The Chinese company has inked a 23-year contract. Iraq, which has the world’s third largest reserves of oil, is a magnet for oil companies desperate for a piece of action.


www.orwelltoday.com...


reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 11:15 AM by Bunken Drum
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet reply to post by Bunken Drum
America does not bow to international law
I see.
Noun 1.
rogue nation - a state that does not respect other states in its international actions

www.thefreedictionary.com...
Is that supposed to be an argument against the invasion being a criminal act, or a confession?
What about the UN Security Consul resolution that allowed force if Saddam didn’t comply?
Yes, what about that? Hans Blix was still looking for any evidence of WMDs & had so far found no evidence of any non-compliance by Iraq. Of course, we have since discovered that there was a damn good reason for that: because there wasn't any to find.



reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 12:17 PM by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Bunken Drum


If that is the way you want to look at America, Then fine we are a Rogue Nation. And as A rogue nation we should cease to be a friendly nation and stop giving out money, food, bombs, and bullets to other nations.

In fact we should begin to spread America around the worlds one nation at a time. First is Canada there only a nation of 50 mil or so they will be easy to assimialte. Next wil be Mexico, Central, and South America. I see no need to keep there whole populations alive they will be easier to maintain as slaves to rebuild there countries as we see fit. Not really a need to attack Africa due to the fact that we have cut off all food and money aid to them they will starve and be less of a threat we need more slaves for the Empire. Europe,HA, if Hitlers army could defeat them in weeks we could to. We shall bathe in the blood of there Men and Children, and use there women as Sex Slaves for our Soldiers, to produce more Americans and Cannon Fodder for the Russians and Chinese who are next. hmm as a matter of fact we shall use the Africans and South Americans as cannon fodder for China and Russia, No Need In White men dying eh?

Your right there were no LARGE AMOUNTS of WMD's in Iraq, however there were small amounts of them, not to much maybe only a dozen or so arty shells, they "forgot" about that was buried. Not a justification for war at all, he did had SCUDs that he wasnt suppose to have. The fact is he played a cout and mouse game with the US for 13 years evenutally someone will call you on it as Bush did. Dont forget he was getting bribe money to use these WMDs from his neighbors.


reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 12:31 PM by marg6043
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Actually we did that through global economy at the end we brought also the entire world down with us during this economic crisis.




reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 01:33 PM by Bunken Drum
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
The USA is already trying to effectively annex Canada & Mexico via the NAU, but invade someone you say? Just how will the USA afford that, when China have lent y'all just enough rope to hang yourselves?
The US economy is in such a precarious position that even a little 'has been' nation like the UK could tip it into freefall by simply dumping US$ reserves &/or joining the €uro. Invade? The USA would need conscription just to maintain public order at home, nevermind keep up its military commitments abroad. Invade!
But hey, I wasn't the 1 who brought up the USAs status, it was you... If the cap fits, wear it.
Btw, many people around the world would have their lives significantly improved if the USA ceased military aid to its puppet regimes & similarly, food aid would rapidly become unnecessary were it not for wars that are being fought by proxy & terrorists/freedom fighters being armed & funded by the CIA/primarily US based corporate interests (is there actually any meaningful distinction?) to destabilise legitimate national governments.
US military interventions
Of course, these are just what is well known & documented: I doubt we'll ever find out all the dirty tricks/black ops. But hey, other countries have done similar, even if not as much, but so what? Like I said in my 1st post... they're bad!


reply posted on 19-8-2009 @ 05:10 PM by Bunken Drum
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet reply to post by Bunken Drum
Well see Our GLORIOUS PLAN IS IN EFFECT.
Oh I know. Its called The Project for the New American Century aka "full spectrum dominance". What a great many Americans seem to have failed to grasp however is that whilst war may be politics by other means, the converse is also true & since the bulk of international politics actually concerns economic issues, we can just as correctly state that economics is war by other means...
& y'all have been outmaneuvered by the long strategies employed by China, the Russian Federation &, to some extent, the EU.
Intuitively, it would seem that borrowing trillions to build up a massive war machine whilst ones principal ideological enemies were spending much less would leave one in a position of overwhelming power, but, when the military cannot be used for fear of the economic impact, it is actually just a giant hole to throw money into, for maintenance, training, etc. further compounding the problem...
Oh how "GLORIOUS"!
Gloriously shortsighted...



reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 01:32 AM by fluffy
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

you are right I am very much against Torture of an prisoners. But I think some of the people to included Yoo, argue that infact some of the methods used were in fact not torture. I never tortures a prisoner nor Would I allow any "Harsh actions" to be taking on my watch. The fact is you cannot point your finger at a group of Americans and call them Criminals and not include the other side as well.... That is why I got pissed off, you just cant thats what makes alot of people mad.. You blame one but not the other.

In fact Bin Laden is at the top of my List as a war criminal. He is the head of an organization that spreads terror by means of killing innocent people. Now if you think 9/11 was an inside job thats fine, I personally dont think are goverment is capable enough to pull something like that off, now if they allowed it to happen thats a different story.



So Bin Laden is capable of pulling something like that off, but not the US government?

And are you joking about Yoo? He concludes in his memo that torture must amount to pain equivalent to that of "organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death." Going by his memo, many of the documented cases of torture used by the US (of which include many innocent people) isn't even actual torture.

There's also a difference between blame and name. I named US war criminals, I didn't blame them for everything that's happened in the war. I think you're just looking at this with a patriotic bias rather than from a rational point of view. As I say yet again, you can "point the finger at the other side" if you want, and as long as it's legitimate I won't be opposing you.

The fact that you yourself may not have tortured a prisoner with any "harsh actions" does not mean that everyone else on your side follows those principles. Actually, it's well documented that this is not the case.


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 01:43 AM by fluffy
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by fluffy

For real get a grip....and by the way your URL is a spam website. Yoo is a teacher and those people were Idiots for disrupting class, if you’re going to protest then protest but not in the classroom were learning is done. And they don’t have to take this mans class if they don’t agree with his beliefs.

Simply amazing.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]


So I'm guessing that any website that goes against your beliefs counts as a spam website? I think many others will find that it is not spam.

Yes, Yoo is a teacher. He is also a law professor which is the credentials he needed to write his law memo. However, his memo was repudiated by the Office of Legal Counsel for being legally unsound. His teachings in the classroom and his professional writings seem to contradict each other somewhat, and thus protesting in his classroom does not at all seem idiotic.

Furthermore, one could argue that the students had actually learnt more from the protest - they may not have even known about his memos until then. Or are you saying it's not in the public's best interest to know this information? I don't see any reason why this should be kept confidential since it concerns the US war effort.


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 01:57 AM by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by fluffy


I served 3 tours over seas, 2 in iraq and one in Afghanistan .....

Since I am a former enlisted Marine....you might as well add me to that list of war criminals.....because as far as I can see from your post, everyone involved is a criminal.........

Forget the fact that we were fighting and having our brothers and friends die for what we thought was right....youll stand there in your self righteous anger and not even begin to comprehend what happened in that place or who we were fighting against......

Just ask Britain right now and the new laws they are passing for extreme muslims......or how bout the women they beat and demean and condemn to death and torture.....

You know nothing about the people we were fighting against or the atrocities they caused..

Nor the children and mothers and fathers who hung on us and cried in thanks for pulling them out from under a man who would slaughter the masses at his whim......or have his sons call up schools and pick out girls under 12 years old to rape and then later murder.....

You know nothing.....the only thing you are sure of is what you THINK you know.......

Whatever the motivation was, whatever the political gain...we removed an evil man from his position......and even if nothing else comes of it, we gave them a CHANCE at something different.....something they never had...

This whole post is anti military propaganda with NO proof to back up your claims except for isolated incidents of military negligence, which will happen in a time of war....#ed up people do #ed up things, that does NOT include the majority or the people that hand the orders down.....


THIS POST IS A FARCE


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 07:29 AM by fluffy
Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by fluffy

Since I am a former enlisted Marine....you might as well add me to that list of war criminals.....because as far as I can see from your post, everyone involved is a criminal.........


Well read my post again then, because the list does not include low-ranking employees or troops who managed to stray from official criminal policies. It includes only the makers of those policies.


Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by fluffy

This whole post is anti military propaganda with NO proof to back up your claims except for isolated incidents of military negligence, which will happen in a time of war....#ed up people do #ed up things, that does NOT include the majority or the people that hand the orders down.....



The post is not anti military. It's anti inhumane war crimes. There's enough proof if you actually do some research about those people. Creating laws that enable the US government to further control their own citizens while also allowing the US to commit horrendous acts of torture on their enemies is not merely "f'd up people doing f'd up things". Yes, the opposition may be equally wrong in what they're doing, but in the end what you're doing is still wrong. There are other ways to go about it.

Bringing your patriotic military bias into this discussion is not helping you in any way - all you're doing is creating an irrelevant argument that doesn't actually attack my original post at all.


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 07:33 AM by fluffy
Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet reply to post by Bunken Drum
For real.... You’re going to biotch about American War criminals. Really don’t you have something better to do? Why don’t you complain about the dudes we are fighting
What does that mean except that fluffy shouldn't mention what US war criminals have done?


Exactly what I was thinking

[edit on 20/8/09 by fluffy]

[edit on 20/8/09 by fluffy]


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 07:55 AM by marg6043
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


My husband is also a marine he served in the first gulf war and believe it or not after retiring in 98 he was one of those that went to the recruiting offices to be reinstalled when we all believe that 9/11 was worth to fight for in Afghanistan not in Iraq.

Still he was denied even when he was in great shape and still is.

In my mind war criminals are all those in government and supporters higher up in the scale that allowed Iraq to be invaded under false pretenses.



reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 09:40 PM by fluffy
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel



Maybe you should try reading uaocteaou's post again.


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 09:44 PM by fluffy
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


By the way, is your post even relevant?
I like it how you're not really adding anything constructive to the original post.


reply posted on 20-8-2009 @ 10:25 PM by zoggz
Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
I love liberal witch lists.

Non-ironically, truly I do.
I am hoping, o fluffy, that you could extend the list, from "war criminals", to include various other individual humans who also are:
(not very nice)
(not as nice as you)
(not as sensitive and deserving as you)
(causing bad feelings in you).
I think anyone who brutally persists in performing the work of the world instead of falling to the floor and marvelling in worshipful awe at the moral sensibilities of the hissy little tipsters who compiled your wishful war criminal hit list...is definitely sending the wrong message...And I bet is even condoning inhumane and criminal actions (at least implicitly since SILENCE = VIOLENCE) and should thus be included on the next list, Volume Two, we'll call it Potential War Criminals, or Thought Criminals, or something...
I think it is very creative for the non-criminal to imagine they know how to assign guilt...because soon enough that process leads to them performing crimes, the next batch, themselves...oh yes... IT TAKES ONE TO JUDGE ONE, et cetera...




What are you even talking about?? You make no sense whatsoever.
Or does it, because naming war criminals logically leads to naming various other individuals who are not very nice, or cause bad feelings to others.

Nice slipperly slope argument.

And a typical straw man argument as you are not even considering what fluffy has said but instead have concocted an irrelevant and weak argument in an attempt to push your pro-military beliefs.
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