This to me suggest we need to start paying our doctors and Nurses more. Maybe if we spent the same percentage of our GDP as America spends on their health system we could create better working conditions and better pay for those working in the NHS.

Whereas the uk spends 8% of GDP on Health care, The US spends 16% of GDP

So maybe we should increase our spend so the nurses and doctors who work so hard, can get some more money, improve their living conditions, in turn improving their own health.

Another day another bash at the NHS.

You know what?

The fact that I have had 5 years of good experiences with the NHS and 25 years of bad experiences in the US doesn't matter. This is my last response to any healthcare threads because most of you have already been convinced by the talking heads that the NHS and other systems which ensure care for everyone are the epitome of evil.

Keep on worshipping at the altar of greed disguised as " keeping my freedoms".

Afterall only a few million people can't get the care that they need and as long as it isn't you, why care?

Originally posted by Merigold
Another day another bash at the NHS.

Keep on worshipping at the altar of greed disguised as " keeping my freedoms".

Afterall only a few million people can't get the care that they need and as long as it isn't you, why care?

I didn't write this news story, YOU (the UK press) did!

It gets reported precisely because I do care about what happens here and to (as opposed to by) my neighbor.

deny ignorance

jw

[edit on 19-8-2009 by jdub297]

Compared to average wages they are well paid. a Gp can pull in £100K a year.

Also I would bet this applies to all govt depts not just NHS.

Was speaking to a bloke in planning the other day and he reckone that he and all his colleagues had done their weeks work by tues lunch most weeks and we pay for all their benefits

NHS staff work long hours, low pay and have the added pressures of endless new Government directives and a media that sanctifies nurses at the same time as implying hospitals are filthy and full of MRSA. Add to that more fricking audits and criticism that 'trickles down' more efficiently than the capital in this country and this is what happens. Obesity and minor mental health issues are well known symptoms of stress. Instead of allaying the pressures and symptoms...they point the finger at the staff and add more stress.

The NHS is the biggest employer in the UK (iirc Europe also), just like in education, it's being ruined by endless political and media BS. Stats and audits. League tables. Directives. There's a little-known saying that you can't fatten a pig by measuring it. I wonder if you can kill a politician by beating them around the head with their ****ing ruler? I'd love to find out

Far too much beurocracy..too many planners, accountants, silly targets. middle management which takes away money for care.
But my experience of nurses is that a lot are lazy and undisciplined because they are not being supervised well....except in intensive care where they are often superb. Bring back the system of matrons that actually worked. The hospitals are often infected with MRSA, that is undeniable. They are often filthy and a health risk. Patients are still left to starve at meal times if they cannot feed themselves...that is undeniable. Patients are often left unattended, nurses do not answer the alarm bells, and do not take them to the toilets.
Nurses are underpaid...but also undisciplined. The ward sisters are often lazy and incompetent. The matron is often never to be seen. Hospital doctors are often juniors who have little idea of what they are doing.

Hospital doctors get paid well so do not need any more money. General practitioners are grossly overpaid in my opinion as they mainly just refer people for tests or to specialists to even determine what is wrong and are sometimes downright incompetent in their medical knowledge and advice.
So just give more money to the nurses and get a good system of supervision back.

Myself and a few student friends did a study of public sector sick absence rates in the early 1980's. It made for interesting reading.

Obviously being statistically based you could make the figures read just about anyway you wanted.

But the bottom line was this.

Sick absence rates for those public sector workers at the real frontline ... dealing with the public in a "hostile environment" such as a hospital casualty unit, or down at the old Dept for Health & Social Security ... the frontline staff had a terrible time of it. And the constant, unrelenting pressure took its toll on their physical and mental health.

Meanwhile, when we looked at those staff with little if any public contact the sick absence rates were invariably better and usually on par with the private sector.

Wages didn't actually come into it at all. And we studied in particular two DHSS offices, one where staff were rotated between jobs every four weeks and one where they weren't. And obviously the office with staff rotation had a much better overall absence rate.

So these figures today ? It's just sad, really. So many people being unwell through their workplace doesn't make for good reading. But some of the blame lies with poor management.

I tried obviously googling sickness absence rates in US hospitals and couldn't find any comparable statistics, perhaps the OP might enlighten as part of his quest to Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
This to me suggest we need to start paying our doctors and Nurses more. Maybe if we spent the same percentage of our GDP as America spends on their health system we could create better working conditions and better pay for those working in the NHS.

Whereas the uk spends 8% of GDP on Health care, The US spends 16% of GDP

So maybe we should increase our spend so the nurses and doctors who work so hard, can get some more money, improve their living conditions, in turn improving their own health.

You seriously have NO IDEA do You? Have You went to the DMV lately or better yet any government office? What do You see when You enter that government building? Well for one You see two or three people working their asses off and then You see about 10 of them hanging around the coffee machine shooting the crap. This is what You get when You give out government retirement! My old lady works for the state and they are just now starting to punish bad employees. I mean seriously there is like a unwritten rule that if You earn state retirement they can't fire You because all of Your retirement would be gone.....


So it does not matter how much money You throw at the problem because the since of entitlement will still be there. Now if You start treating the job like any other job which is to make Your employer money and fire employees for crappy service then things will change considerably.

people working in an environment choc full of infectious diseases tend to get sick more often.......i'm shocked, really, that's soooo surprising. who would have expected all those infectious diseases to...dunno....infect people!!

no, no, really, good point there tonto.

hospitals with worse staff health levels tend to have higher rates of infection and more patient deaths

or to put it another way, hospitals that deal with a lot of infectous, deadly deseases tend to have a higher incidence of staff becoming sick.


i can not believe this story made it past an editor, is it april 1st? who commishioned this report?

Originally posted by Kandinsky
NHS staff work long hours, low pay and have the added pressures of endless new Government directives and a media that sanctifies nurses at the same time as implying hospitals are filthy and full of MRSA.

My point, exactly! I know health care professionals who have been taxed beyond the limt! The only thing that keeps them going is the opportunity for O.T. at $150/hr.

The NHS is the biggest employer in the UK (iirc Europe also), just like in education, it's being ruined by endless political and media BS. Stats and audits. League tables. Directives.

Isn't that the crux of the story/problem?

(acting as messenger, only, not advocate)
jw

Originally posted by jdub297
Exposure to 'illness vectors' is a ruse, and you know it!

so you are saying that we should not expect a higher incidence of infection in people with a higher exposure to infection? are you for real?

It is the same governmetn that did the survey that runs NHS. IN your world, since they can't do anything, they can't run a survey either.

And they really based this on six months of information?

as for obesity and smoking and mental health. all that can be said about US healthcare. The medical staff is the worst when it comes to those behaviors.

And what exactly is the private sector? How large is it? Most likely it is the people who get paid the most and can determine the time off they need and run their own business.

That is nothing shattering. that is like saying a CEO is healthier then a secretary at NIH.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

It's amazing, even with all the problems that the OP continually finds with the NHS, they still manage to provide better healthcare than the US.
It's really fantastic.
The general population lives on average longer than the americans, the infant mortality is lower, we have more physicians per 1000 people, we got more nurses per 1000 people and we manage to provide all of this for a fraction of the money than in the US.
I'm starting to suspect either the guys in the NHS are really good or the american healthcare system is really bad.