seriously...this is like talking about elvis and mj still being alive...

Originally posted by TheFaiThfulSkepTic
All your information is from information from the media, stop acting like an idiot trying to say something otherwise. What research have you done to prove otherwise? None. Good night sweet troll, see you when the traffic wakes you up.

Ooooo touchy aren't we.
Is that because your theory is absolutely ridiculous?

And ALL my information?

WTF are you talking about... i haven't presented any.
I'm not the one saying that a dead rapper is still making music and is using a pseudonym to do it....YOU are.

I don't need to prove he's not dead.... he is, that is a FACT.

The onus is on you man..... the burden of proof lies with you.

May i suggest a name change?


The pseudoskeptic would be better i think

There was this woman that had a website called nograpes.com, she had this theory that sounded really convincing. She had written like 3 or 4 parts to it when her forum was shut down. I had been following her for a while and had her personal email address, using it i had found her myspace and contacted her. She said she wasn't the same nograpes but gave me one of these because I think she remembered my user name. Maybe she was on to something.

Originally posted by lucidclouds
There was this woman that had a website called nograpes.com, she had this theory that sounded really convincing. She had written like 3 or 4 parts to it when her forum was shut down. I had been following her for a while and had her personal email address, using it i had found her myspace and contacted her. She said she wasn't the same nograpes but gave me one of these because I think she remembered my user name. Maybe she was on to something.

Thanks for the information, i knew i wasnt alone out there in my search for truth.. star

Here is the Nograpes theory from the website, ill just post it here for sake of easiness.

Part I

For those who may not know, or may have forgotten, my belief is
simple[well not exactly lol] I believe that the attempted assassination of
Tupac Shakur was a part of an on-going plot [set-up etc] that
involves the following people: The New York Black Mafia[Paffy],
Agents, working both for the FBI and another "unknown"
organizations, and Marion "suge" Knight [and the various people who worked for him etc]. But those three main people together. Whether
directly or indirectly had part in the "assassination" of Tupac.


Let me start off my "theory" with some very important quotes from
the open letter, written by Dr. Mutulu Shakur.
"Surely, the FBI was in Las Vegas on Sep. 7, 1996"--Shakur
"AFENI and I have never supported a Crip vs Blood feud as presented
by the Las Vegas Police concerning our son's assossination. And, I
have always pushed the "Codes of the Thug Life"--Shakur.


"If our families(SHAKURS) lack of respense to rumors and allegations
contributed to any confusion as to what princeple we stand on; let it
be known and clear!! We do not believe in COINCIDENCES."


"Tupac in his Makaveli record clearly changed his wrongful view of
who shot him and who was heading it in New York, and why"--Shakur


For those who may have forgotten, I asked many times: "why do you
guys think BIGGIE's name was not mentioned on the Makaveli
album?"


"Tupac revisedhis wrongful (stance) against Biggie's involvement
concerning his shooting in New York. And he wanted his "Fans" to
know it"--Shakur


-But does Tupac mention the Black Mafia? YES, KING TUT!
-But does Tupac mention Puffy? Yes he does!
-But does Tupac mention the Feds? Yes he does!
-But does Tupac mention Suge?...YES HE -----DOES! "SUGE SHOT
ME" IS WHAT YOU HEAR , DON'T LET SOMEONE FOOL YOU INTO
THINKIN' OTHERWISE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Part II

I was planning to drive right into the "investigative" aspect of
my theory, but I have decided to save it for the conclusion[parts 6 &
7]. Part II is going to explain: (1) How I think Tupac survived; (2)
Whom I believe helped him do it (3) Why this is all necessary
[motivation], and (4) What I think the last piece of the puzzle is.


I. The Black Liberation Army (BLA) helped Tupac "evade" death. I.
BLA Commander & Chief John Thomas No facts and No specifec data
is revealed regarding the activity of the BLA in order to protect
people who are either functioning in the BLA [Tupac] or who have
been apart of it. (The BLA is basically a secret underground, not
many people believe they are still "active". "The Black Liberation
Army is a politico-military organization, whos primary objective is to
fight for the independance and self-determination of Afrikan, and
other oppressed people inb the United States."


"BPP-BLA, "comrade" Assata Shakur was liberated, and BLA soldiers
were captured during Nyack Brinks armored car expropriation
[Mutulu Shakur was one of them the "mastermind"] For more on BLA
go here source: [Only Registered Users Can See Links. Click Here To Register...]


I. Understand these terms: COMRADE, and MASTERMIND.
Definition of Mastermind: A highly intelligent person, especially one
who plans and directs a complex or defficult project.


A. Know that Tupac is both a comrade and a mastermind. Take note
of his only uses of the word came at the "end" in the Makaveli album
etc...Various timeshe mentiones "his" comrades, we also hear
speeches from some mixed in with songs, he mentiones Sekou Odinga
[Yafeu Fulu's father], Geronimo Pratt, Mutulu, Mumia etc as his
equals.


I. The mureder of BLA Commander John Thomas in September 1996
[in Las Vegas, NV] as well as Dr. Shakur's statement from "part
I" ["Surely the FBI was in Las Vegas on Sept. 7, 1996"--] is more
than enough "evidence" to me, that Agents were present.
[Remember the MURDER TAPE? Well it was
first introduced to you all as a "SURVEILLANCE VIDEO" How many
times has Tupac stated that he was "under Surveillance" by the Feds?
About a dozen[more on that later]


Tupac had a plan for that night, he knew going to Las Vegas was
unavoidable[it is a common fact that he repeatedly told Suge he
didn't want to go]. However, he didn't go alone, his Comrades [who
waited anxiously to attack the first Agent they saw] were watching
Tupac. Agents concerned with the assassination "stopped" the BMW
[if you recall, the excuse was "loud music"] in order to create a
change of plans, you see Tupac never expected to get shot that
night, he planned to go to WAR! But something happened and I'm
not sure what, but John Thomas ended up dead, and Tupac was
successfully "shot 4x" [Lord knows what else they did] ***warlike
codes are dispatched to other comrades...MAU MAU UNTIS*** "RIDE
OR DIE - RIDE OR DIE! Do you know what it means? It means: "the
enemy is here kill or be killed" Javana Thomas: the 19 year old
daughter of John abd Ignae Thomas was "undercover" as a
Paramedic. [who called for an anbulance? They say it was metro
byke cops, but they never identified those men so they are full of #
in my opinion, besides I like my theory much better and I can prove
half of it]
Javana arrived to the location with another comrade, no
one suspected anything, and they took Tupac away in an anbulance!!
All I know is Tupac got to the hospital, and Javana was found dead in
a medical uniform! [Fact or fiction? Go to your local library and look
up old articles] It is my belief that the mystery
"paramedics" were BLA souljas....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are so many theories out there on who killed Tupac. My theory
is quite simple and to the point. Anyone who knows anything about
COINTELPRO would easily see this as another one of the
government's plot to create dissention amongst black people. See, I
see it like this. The government at some level was involved in the
death of our comrade. By assassinating Bro. Tupac, this would cause
an all out war from east to west. They used Tupac's anger towards
east coast rappers as a stiulus to create a war amongst us. If the US
can find a microchip in a trackload of sugar, surely they can find
those responsible. There are cameras all over Las Vegas yet not one
was in the vicinity of the shooting? Conviently all the evidence
pointed to Orlando (the beating victim earlier that evening). And
then he was killed.

Part 1 of 3

[edit on 14-9-2009 by TheFaiThfulSkepTic]

Read parts 2 and 3 on by a moderator of the forums by the name of
£MG££

A couple other things i have found just randomly scrolling through some more information on tupac's death:

Tupac had a Life Insurance Policy on him, which has yet to be cashed to this day (im sure the money could be used to benefit charity in some way). So ... why would it be ignored? If his insurance policy is never cashed, if he returned no LEGAL actions could be taken against him as long as the policy is not collected.

This really doesnt make sense to me... If afeni is going after Suge for some of Pacs millions that was borrowed by death row... Wouldnt she collect the insurance policy on top of everything else? Unless there is a greater plan in the works.



Also there were no ballistics investigation after the murder, which adds to the complexity of this mystery... Why wasnt this murder investigated... Or was there no need to ?

Your thread makes me damn well wish it were true. If only Tupac hadn't been murdered. Hiphop would not have degenerated into the sanctifier of coarse materialism because while materialism and living it up were a part of the music, they were never the most important part.

Tupac only signed with Death Row because he was desperate to get out of jail, a prison term he was sentenced to on trumped up charges as we know. For a lot of his time on Death Row he was caught up in the negativity because Suge was all about it - but when Pac took his stand and told David Kenner the evil lawyer to take a hike, they knew the writing was on the wall.

Pac was tired of all the negativity. It had sapped his political energy as did all the run ins with the law designed to sap that leadership and stop him becoming more of a powerful influence on Blacks and Whites alike. Jay Z would have been pissed on by Pac, his crass promotion of greed and his aligning himself with the masters of the music industry would have become irrelevant.

BUT... I believe that sadly Pac is dead. He could not have hidden away this length of time, especially with Bush, Cheney and their flunkeys in power. Not with Obama's ascent. Pac would have said it was great to see a Black man there but then would have pointed out that Obama is as much a part of the American system as Bush.

Pac was murdered by one of these - Suge Knight because he wanted control of Pac's music and also because Pac as the most valuable asset of Death Row was going to leave OR because Suge needed to make a blood sacrifice (very controversial theory) to advance in the music industry;

The same people who shot Pac in New York because he wouldn't become the flagship artist of Bad Boy a couple of years back. Puffy/Diddy wanted Pac at first, he was going to be the one, not Biggie;

Somebody connected with the Feds and higher up because they were fearful Pac was going to really unite an opposition to the evils of the system.

As for Black Haze - check out Guerilla Black from Compton, California. He sounds just like Biggie. I don't think Blac Haze is Tupac but I wish he were.

I read nograpes theory years ago, and at one point I really thought tupac was alive, and thought he would return 7 years later, in 2003, that was the big return date, and 2nd 2007. After all of that, I think tupac knew he would die, hence, all of the clues, but really died.

Sometimes when I really think about, I think he might still be alive, but I don't argue about it anymore because I feel like if he is, he won't return. So Its something I try not thinking of when I listen to his music because I'd rather just listen and enjoy what gave while alive.. or, " here " making music.

Either way, I enjoyed reading this thread, and Nograpes section again after so long.

Yeah, Blac Haze sounds extremely similar to Tupac. There's two possibilities IMO, either Tupac is still releasing music under the alter ego Blac Haze and he just has this guy mouth the words to avoid suspicion, or it's some clown who grew up listening to Tupac and just wants to rip off his style to make money. But if you go to YouTube and listen to a few of Blac Haze's songs, it's pretty hard to say that it's not Tupac. They sound 90% identical, they rap with almost the exact same style about the same things, the flow is the same, but Tupac rapped with more emotion. I guess you could argue that most rappers just naturally get worse as they age, because it's pretty hard to say that any rappers rap with the exact same style as they did 15-20 years back.

It's really hard to say, one side of me is telling me that Blac Haze has to be Tupac because there are just so many similarities between their music, and another side is saying that Tupac is dead and I'm just trying to convince myself that he's alive still making music.

Him and The Notorious B.I.G. are currently in witness protection living in a undisclosed location under assumed names with their true id's being well hidden.

I used to be the biggest Pac fan there was. I used to believe he was still alive. Realtiy is this...he is not alive. At least I do not believe he is alive. Pac got caught up in the line of fire. Suge owed a debt...he owed a lot of money to 2Pac and he also had debts to the Bloods. It was the Bloods who killed 2Pac along with the Crips that killed Biggie (all part of retaliation).