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Where is your God?!

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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I only read a few replies beyound the OP's question so I don't know if its been framed this way yet. I struggled with these thoughts for a very long time before reading a book that layed out a plausible solution to many of these questions. I will be the first to admit that I am still skeptical about this book but I can't deny that I experience a tremendous amount of inner peace when I read it.

The book is called 'A course in Miracles." and the basic premise is that we are a divided mind, but only as an illusion, like dreaming. The portion of mind we experience in this world is the ego and all that we see with our human senses is a creation of the ego. According to this book, the higher mind is, has, and can only be in eternity, existing as part of an infinite conciousness (GOD)and that is our true self. Everything else, including our experience of this world is an illusion.

The illusion is maintained by our own guilt and judgement. According to this book, the way to leave this illusion and return to reality is not death, but forgiveness. Not in the sense we understand forgiveness with our ego but in the sense that nothing we experience in this world is real and we have to break the chain of judgement we use to condemn others and ultimately ourselves.

Now I will try and define the ego for everyone as I have come to understand it. The ego is a creation of our mind that is responsible for every emotion that isn't love. It is the part of our mind that created time and everything in it. Every lifeform in the world of the ego exists based on the scarcity principle and as such spends its existence competeing for resources, the most basic of which is Life itself. "In a World of scarcity Love has no meaning and Peace is impossible." is a line from the book which I think sums things up nicely. Every evil deed, every viscious act is the result of our ego.

I can readily admit to having done a little evil in my time. I can only imagine what I would be capable of if I had been abused as some have. Add a little drug and alcohol problem to the mix and I think we can see an explanation for the ugly things we experience here.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by moocowman
 


not a mountain god in the sense of rock mountain. a mountain god in the sense of holy mountain (pyramid, ziggurat, etc). it's always been about the same group and of course, they were worshipped in more than one place. so it's not a start here and end there, but more of a start here and follow to here. same bat time, same bat channel.


The light at the end of the tunnel.
The Glory of the Lord.
The all seeing eye.
Mountain of zion
Giver of Ion
Gammal
through
the eye
of a
Needle
Baal Cain
4 Corners
Fire by night
Smoke by day
The lake of Fire....
Order out of Chaos
Spirit of the Air.......
A mist to water the face of the earth



Let there be light....

[edit on 20-8-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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... I don't mean to be a troll ... so forgive me .

but honestly... christians do not WANT me in their church .
because I have in the past , currently do , and will in the future ask for answers. I talk about god !

that is the very last thing on earth a chritian wants...

when I sell my soul to christ , lets see the money .
I am ready to the ebay soul market .

get off the bible like it is the end all be all of truth .
I know that printers ink was used in the print shop that made the bible .
people made the bindings , people did the proof reading .

point two.

second sourse your information . the lord of the rings is a very nice book , full of nice stuff , wisedom and truth .
what is the diffrence between the two book serials .

( you push ... are you surprised your bring pushed back )

support your evidance , or support the people who support theirs .

there is no evidance what ever that christ ever exsisted at any time any where ... hearsay evidance , it is all second hand at best . no official records of the events preposed , no physical evidance of any account .... in a court of law , you could not bring a case .

point four

god is real , but there is nothing you can say that I can beleive that ties your religon to god .

in fact your own prophet speaks badly of you personaly , your leaders genaraly , your ablitys as a rule ... and frankly
your whole blood cult is a bit pushy ...

I might add... why don't you read your own book .
define the words you use in something than circular definitions...

a grock is a mini orbga in you

a orbga is a waonic in the world

a waonic is easy... thats a grock !

why of course... that makes perfect sense to me!
why can you not see that .

have faith and all will be made clear to you . pass the collection plate ! we need to recruit more people to god !

on a serious note :
I do beleive christians have done a great deal of good .
but back off on trying to tell free thinking people about reason, understanding , or what is god ....
I can define my words , give metaphors , exsamples , test my assumptions ... build models ... and prove to myself and others what I know .

I have not found one church , in 8 states , over 50 years.. that welcomes talk of god in church .
its a word game , read stuff , run away and hide behind elders and prophets ... word games !
they take your money , but god is on that long list of forbidden subjects ... all meaningless word games .

define sin ? simple. but meaningless no word has any reality to it. you have no god , you have circular word craft .
your words are empty word craft .

so back up and define your words in terms of physical observable behavior ... or understand... your frauds ... con men selling snake oil ...
you make your bed , then sleep in it .

( your turn... push again , and I will push back)

pls forgive me if I offended , I love what I am hearing , reading and seeing... free speach is a delight to the minds eye



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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What cracks me up most about this whole thing is this.

Every religion believes they have the truth and ultimately that the God of their religion is the ultimate truth.

If all religious folks feel this way, then why will they completely avoid what it is that they push? What they push being the truth. Why avoid that part if it is your biggest selling point.

Last I looked, truth means something that is known without having to be verified, having been proved to be a fact. For example, "My body is covered with skin". No one needs to have that proven to them, even though I could have just been skinned, it is a common truth amongst anyone.

When you push an invisible being on people, how are you in any way proclaiming the truth? When you preach of Heaven and Hell as afterlife concepts, yet knowing no one who has returned (other then a savior you've never met in person be it Jesus, Muhammad, Budda, Krisna, Mitras, Horus...whoever) nor yourself having experienced such, how are you preaching the truth? If you have a truth that can not be shared because it is personal, why do you not keep it personal as only you can know it being a "personal truth"?

Does truth have a form other then you, for without you, you don't see me, nor do I see you.

Jesus said,


John 3:11-13 (Young's Literal Translation)

11`Verily, verily, I say to thee -- What we have known we speak, and what we have seen we testify, and our testimony ye do not receive;

12if the earthly things I said to you, and ye do not believe, how, if I shall say to you the heavenly things, will ye believe?

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.


In context, Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about being "Born again" and Nicodemus did not understand, nor do Christians thinking "If I say some magic words, all is good". Jesus was talking about children to which you pass along your spirit, that is your likeness...an earthly thing, but Nicodemus, as well as Christians believe in something that is not tangible, nor known. He says above, "No one hath gone up to the heaven (which is in you) except he who out of heaven came down". In other words, no one is ascending with out being a descendant. Being "born again" is having children, as you were born and borne, so to must you bare. Not a religious way, but a true way having NOTHING to do with religion, rather the love between two so that they become one flesh and a new creation...a baby.

The only salvation of you, is the Memory of you and the spirit of you because it is remembered by the living, or not. Your children will remember you, if no children then those who you've done good to and if none of those be, you are no more. How do I know that is true? Because I remember my loved ones who are passed on just as you do so I know it is true. Don't believe me, have fun asking the dead. The God of the bible who believers say is true, says he HATES people who practice spiritism saying, "Should you not seek the living on behalf of the dead". Also Jesus says, "Love one another as I have loved you", not "Pray to my dead Image". You want to know the Anti Christ? Keep worshiping that cross and you'll meet him soon enough.

Ever notice when someone dies that usually only the good of that person is remembered and none of the bad. There are exceptions, but the bad is put "out of mind" and the overly bad person not remembered in a good light if at all because we are saying "Go away from me, I do not know you". Memory is the magnet of resurrection which draws those traits back from the dead. No good done, no good remembered.

Do people know why Jesus says "Salvation is of the Jews"? Because Jew means Celebrated or in terms you understand..."Celebrity". They are well remembered by the masses and "brought to mind" in fondness. Their names are changed as Abram to Abraham or Norma Jean to Marylin Monroe to be "Re-Membered" to the body of God, that is Mankind.

Truth is known and done, not preached and unseen. There is no truth in the imagination except it be manifest, Good or bad.

Peace



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


i tend to talk about it with people who ask questions. the thread title itself is a question.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


i tend to talk about it with people who ask questions. the thread title itself is a question.



Here is my question.

What is the answer?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


to what?

the topic title? or to your big post above?
or is it a sort of generic question?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


Why would God let me be molested? Well, I do believe it is all part of the larger plan. Like I said... in my mind everything in my life has lead up to me giving birth to my wonderful son. Had I not been molested and went through a variety of other bad things, I truly don't believe that I would be where I am with the son I have now. I guess I view it kind of like the movie The Butterfly Effect. You change one thing and everything changes. I know what happened to me was not my fault... I place the blame on my sperm donor. I believe god cries for all those that are hurt. God is merciful... and unlike most christian's I don't believe you necessarily have to go through christ to attain everlasting life. I believe that what ever you believe as long as you truly believe will get you to the same place. If a person led a good life and never knew of there being a god, they would still go to heaven.


I've read through all these posts and he common thread among many non believers is that there is pain and suffering and therefore God can not be A)compassionate or B) all powerful. My opinion on this from just a philosophical stance is that life would be meaningless without pain or suffering. You can't be truly happy unless you have felt pain in someway. How would you even know you were happy if everything was always good? You would have nothing to compare it to. It's the bad things that show us what is truly important in life.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by whatsup
 



It's population control. People want to believe they can do anything they want to the world around them with no reprecussions. They make the world fit to meet their needs, instead of fitting into the world around them. People create wars in the name of God, but those people are evil and only self serving. God gave us free will, and when we overstep our boundaries he pushes back and people don't like it. People want to be in control... that is the main issue for athiests. And why cant people that believe in God also work toward bettering the world and stopping wars and fighting illnesses. Why should that be a godless process?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


DNA is the closest thing we have to a "God". A molecule. Go figure.

We are slaves to it's forces of consumption & reproduction.

If it wasn't for our evolved intelligence, we wouldn't be in the position we are in. We are an accident of chemistry. Nothing more.

Suffering matters. Everywhere. All the time. At all levels. We should do everything we can to alleviate suffering. A good place to start would be commercial meat production, for example. Or the medical industry.

Industry. Is. The. Correct. Term.

Life is a zero-sum game, the best we can ever hope to do is get back to zero, and currently I don't see us heading anywhere close to that direction.

We should grandfather ourselves out of existence.

Now.

For the sake of the other sentient life on this rock.


Have a good day.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Republican08


He will be here soon. You can ask him when he gets here.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d

Originally posted by Republican08


He will be here soon. You can ask him when he gets here.


If a deity shows up, I'd be quite wonderous to figure out which one it is.

Yahweh?
Jesus?
Allah?
Mohammad?
Krishna? (what you doin fool!)
Zeus?


I'd be so confused, i'd have to bring out a book, and start finding out characteristics of this god infront of me. Sadly I'd think half would describe it, or none would.

Then I'd have alot of questions. And I wonder myself, if he could slam a revolving door.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


to what?

the topic title? or to your big post above?
or is it a sort of generic question?


I was just being a wisea$$....sorry undo


Seriously though, the mountain topic. It is a Volcano. That is what a pyramid, ziggurate, Dolaman, Tee-pee, even the Lunar Lander represent a Volcano.

The primordial life giver and destroyer.

It parts seas and makes babies, leads captives free and levels valleys, gave birth to the sun, melted T2 for fun. It is the point of Hor Tsion, the mountain of zion, the orange of a pylon, the death of the mayan, the all seeing eye in the movies we cry from, it's what we gleamed light from, the reason the stars twinkle and so delight some, we learned it's combustion, learned how it poured metal, took hold of that dragon and it's red kettle or should I say yellow without the stone, the reason of wormwood should surely be known.

Sorry for rhyming, it helps me keep timing.

Anyway.....Peace



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


Wow, I couldn't of kept a rhyme that long!

Kudos just for that!

And a point!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


i'm gonna have to disagree with that. primarily because in some of the earliest texts, enki arrives in a flying floating submersible advice giving glowing totally metal contraption, that has an interior that's a tangled thread beyond understanding. i believe it was the first example of a holy mountain from which later mudbrick and limestone holy mountains were modelled.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 




How about the invisible being that she was told resides in the sky and protects little children such as herself as long as she remains good ?

So you havent made any claims here? Claims that God should protect people? If God started protecting people, we couldnt believe that God didnt exist. That means we would have limited free will.

Free will is the highest form of love. I BELIEVE that, i cannot prove it, nor can you disprove my statement. My values promote autonomy.

Cheers.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by Satchmo Bevins
reply to post by Republican08
 


We are an accident of chemistry. Nothing more


Id like to see you prove that point. Its funny. Spiritual people who view the universe as designed and so on are chastised for their beliefs while others demand proof. When we cannot provide proof we are labelled as incorrect, however, when somebody makes a statement like the one above, people just accept it as fact?


[edit on 21-8-2009 by Toughiv]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 06:04 AM
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How about a couple of you atheist in here try a new argument? You keep using the same one over and over. When you're not doing that, you're just insulting others left and right in a sneaky manner so you don't get warned or banned.


Here's something for both sides to take note of:

Neither of you have 100% definitive proof of anything. Which only causes one thing. Constant arguing that does nothing but waste time because neither side will ever win.

Here's my take: I believe in a God. If there's some type of after-life, cool. If there is no God and nothing else after death, who cares? I'm dead and gone, but I had a great life and that's all that mattered.

You hardcore people on both sides of this need to sit down and look at how much time you waste trying to push your beliefs on others and argue about this and then think about what else you could have been doing with that time


(EDIT: Just want to clarify that I'm not a huge fan of anyone from any side of this pushing their beliefs on others. Let people believe what they want to believe and stop worrying about what they think. Stop thinking you're above others with all the right answers and just admit to yourself that you honestly don't know the answer and just live life without caring about what others believe. Seriously, why do you let something soo small and stupid like another persons belief bother you soo much?
)

[edit on 21-8-2009 by nightmare_david]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by nightmare_david
 


I agree with you! I understand a person devoting themselves and their time to what they believe in. But when you don't believe in God, why waste your time harping about it. Find a hobby and devote yourself to somthing you CAN believe in.

Truth is...they are convicted that they may be wrong. The proof of conviction for an athiest is the death bed. Many have prayed to the God they mocked all their life, facing death.




posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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I dont agree, i see much good in showing somebody where their logic is skewed. For example, (i had this conversation recently), if you had a child that believed it was ok to go around hitting other children, because they see it as fun, would you not tell them to stop hitting?

That is imposing your belief that it is not right to hit other people (dont get into a debate about when its right hitting somebody, im just making a point)

Cheers,

Brad



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